TB kills the jump?

With regard to QH’s (“twisting and turning”), some info can be found here: http://www.beauobanjo.com/Bloodlines.html

And about Australian stock horses:
http://www.plaintree.com.au/stock-horses/nonda-newman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfNyY-eqgOI
http://www.haydonhorsestud.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=72&Itemid=73
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/haydon+drawn
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.php?h=HAYDON+SATELLITE&g=9&query_type=photos&search_bar=photos&inbred=Standard&x2=n&username=&password=&x=0&y=0
http://www.chalani.net/what.php

http://www.brookbyheights.co.nz/Stud+Services/Resident+Stallion+Mighty+Heights.html
http://sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10585504
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/mighty+heights

Wow…been to Florida for a week , come back and you guys are still searching for horses that are not Tb’s but with a TB in the pedigree.

Stop talking and do it. Breed good horses with Tb’s in the pedigree. Put your money where your mouth is…anything less is just fantasy.

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/beyond-the-blinkers/archive/2012/07/05/catching-a-falling-star.aspx

Beware, I did not check the information:
http://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/1569291
http://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/88318
http://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/341753
http://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/316807

[QUOTE=Elles;7653220]
http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/beyond-the-blinkers/archive/2012/07/05/catching-a-falling-star.aspx

Beware, I did not check the information:
http://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/1569291
http://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/88318
http://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/341753
http://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pedigree/316807[/QUOTE]

Elles, I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove: these pedigrees have TB in the second generation, right where many breeders would like to see it. Not only are these not full TBs, they’re not even F1 crosses. Good points have been made on both sides; I think we can all agree that a certain amount of TB is necessary in the right place in the pedigree for a top show jumper.

I admire your determination, but I think it’s time to lay the incessant link-posting to rest. :wink:

[QUOTE=vineyridge;7652332]
There may be one existing German WB line that traces tail male to a non-TB, and even that one is suspect (Farn).[/QUOTE]

Yet you still have almost no TB’s in top competition.

"This horse is 64% TB "…“This horse has a TB grandfather”…“This line TRACES back to a TB”…

Why do you keep posting this “tracing” BS ? We all know there are TB’s in the pedigrees of todays top sporthorses. We all also know that straight TB’s are almost non existent in the top showrings. Your point is lost on no one.

You can keep pumping out this TB History all you like…but it’s just that… history. Few in the world will seek out or use TB’s today except in the generational production of the warmblood.

Tradewind, if TB’s would really kill the jump would they at all be in that position in the pedigree? F2 is very close by to not have a rather big influence.

Just thought I would post my good news in this thread since it is somewhat pertinent…

Just confirmed my most prized mare in foal today. After 3 years of trying to breed her (tried 5 different Holsteiner stallions) on my last attempt for her ever I finally have a black dot!

Foal will be: Native Ruler xx/Salido Z/Calypso I/Ramiro/Ganeff, Holsteiner Stamm 8145.

Only time will tell if the baby jumps as well as his/her mother and the rest of her line, or if my use of a racing thoroughbred completely handicaps the f1.

Pedigree of the Thoroughbred Stallion I went with live cover after being impressed with him after seeing him in person: http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=11043559

This was a little bit of a risk for me since he has only had racing mares to this point, however I am confident in my stamm and I believe that the infusion of blood will be good (mare is only 36% blood). Regardless, the baby is for me to show, not to sell or breed with so I went with my gut and I will see what I get.

Interesting choice, Stoney. May I ask you to elaborate on why you chose Native Ruler? What does he throw? As a fellow member of the exclusive club “I Bred to a Race Horse Sire for My Future Sport Horse” I would love to hear your reasoning and look forward to seeing how your foal turns out!

I’ve never been a big fan of Elusive Quality; I have not found his offspring to be very consistent in type. Some of them are nice (Quality Road), but I’ve seen others who are a bit too low-shouldered, level-topline for my taste (see Smarty Jones, for example…though I know Smarty has sired a few decent sport horses). I get the feeling that EQ is a bit mare-dependent; looking at Native Ruler, as well, he has the look of a Dixieland Band damsire stamp. Nothing wrong with that-- Dixieland Band was a super damsire. :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=EventerAJ;7655060]
Interesting choice, Stoney. May I ask you to elaborate on why you chose Native Ruler? What does he throw? As a fellow member of the exclusive club “I Bred to a Race Horse Sire for My Future Sport Horse” I would love to hear your reasoning and look forward to seeing how your foal turns out!

I’ve never been a big fan of Elusive Quality; I have not found his offspring to be very consistent in type. Some of them are nice (Quality Road), but I’ve seen others who are a bit too low-shouldered, level-topline for my taste (see Smarty Jones, for example…though I know Smarty has sired a few decent sport horses). I get the feeling that EQ is a bit mare-dependent; looking at Native Ruler, as well, he has the look of a Dixieland Band damsire stamp. Nothing wrong with that-- Dixieland Band was a super damsire. :)[/QUOTE]

Picking Native Ruler was a really tough choice for me to go through with. He was only retired in 2012, so his oldest offspring are yearlings I believe. While he has a moderately desirable dosage index for sport, he was a sprinter himself, which isn’t as desirable imo. He had 41 starts over several years and was a multiple stakes race winner. He won over $700,000 at the track proving competitiveness as well as longevity. However, I have no clue how this will translate to sport if at all. Viney was kind enough to look at his pedigree and had complimentary things to say about it as a whole and specifically about Mount Hagen which gave me some confidence.

Despite all of this the reason I bred my mare to him was because he is built very very well. He is uphill with a nice neck and shoulder and is compact through the body. He also moves very well and has a great temperament. I only know this because I was able to spend time with him. If I hadn’t had the opportunity to observe him over time I would not have bred to him based solely on his pedigree or what could be found out about him on paper. I will never have the ability to see him jump or be ridden under saddle since he stands to a good number of race mares and the owner has no need to pursue sporthorse breedings.

Ultimately I have tried with this mare with frozen and fresh for three years and due to some cervical and uterine conformation issues we decided to go live cover and now I have a baby on the way! So while I am super excited that she is in foal, I have to admit that I have tried and tried over years to get her in foal to stallions that are more tried and true for her pedigree. The reason that I have embarked upon this experiment is because I selfishly want to ride and compete one of her foals. As an amateur I am not too concerned with killing the jump for the very top level of sport. I most likely would not have done this breeding if I was wanting to sell this baby commercially.

[QUOTE=Stoney447;7655191]
Picking Native Ruler was a really tough choice for me to go through with. He was only retired in 2012, so his oldest offspring are yearlings I believe. While he has a moderately desirable dosage index for sport, he was a sprinter himself, which isn’t as desirable imo. He had 41 starts over several years and was a multiple stakes race winner. He won over $700,000 at the track proving competitiveness as well as longevity. However, I have no clue how this will translate to sport if at all. Viney was kind enough to look at his pedigree and had complimentary things to say about it as a whole and specifically about Mount Hagen which gave me some confidence.

Despite all of this the reason I bred my mare to him was because he is built very very well. He is uphill with a nice neck and shoulder and is compact through the body. He also moves very well and has a great temperament. I only know this because I was able to spend time with him. If I hadn’t had the opportunity to observe him over time I would not have bred to him based solely on his pedigree or what could be found out about him on paper. I will never have the ability to see him jump or be ridden under saddle since he stands to a good number of race mares and the owner has no need to pursue sporthorse breedings.

Ultimately I have tried with this mare with frozen and fresh for three years and due to some cervical and uterine conformation issues we decided to go live cover and now I have a baby on the way! So while I am super excited that she is in foal, I have to admit that I have tried and tried over years to get her in foal to stallions that are more tried and true for her pedigree. The reason that I have embarked upon this experiment is because I selfishly want to ride and compete one of her foals. As an amateur I am not too concerned with killing the jump for the very top level of sport. I most likely would not have done this breeding if I was wanting to sell this baby commercially.[/QUOTE]

Congrats Stoney ! I am glad you finally got her in foal !

The Ratina stamm is very powerful…I’m sure you will have a nice baby. Check out the stallion Comme il Faut…he is the latest example.

[QUOTE=Bayhawk;7655282]
Congrats Stoney ! I am glad you finally got her in foal !

The Ratina stamm is very powerful…I’m sure you will have a nice baby. Check out the stallion Comme il Faut…he is the latest example.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Bayhawk! I am really happy to have a foal from her…its not what I had planned, but I hope for a nice foal nonetheless.

[QUOTE=Stoney447;7655421]
Thanks Bayhawk! I am really happy to have a foal from her…its not what I had planned, but I hope for a nice foal nonetheless.[/QUOTE]

Welcome ! Good luck with a successful foaling…

Stoney447 I hope you will get a very nice foal.

I saw this video this morning, and of course thought, oh yes, Thoroughbreds ‘kill’ the jump.
:wink:

It is not just the quality of the jump, but the beautiful canter, the lightness and athleticism.

The great Sweet n Low.

http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/tbt-sweet-n-low-puissance-record-still-stands

[QUOTE=Fred;7821961]
I saw this video this morning, and of course thought, oh yes, Thoroughbreds ‘kill’ the jump.
:wink:

It is not just the quality of the jump, but the beautiful canter, the lightness and athleticism.

The great Sweet n Low.

http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/tbt-sweet-n-low-puissance-record-still-stands[/QUOTE]
Over 7.7 feet??? Holy crap!

And this is why Puissance nowadays is judged on twisty, short distances plus time faults at about 6’.

31 years.
Still can’t touch this.

What was Sweet n Low’s JC name?

The puissance at WIHS is never done at 6’, unless I missed something tonight??

[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;7823191]
And this is why Puissance nowadays is judged on twisty, short distances plus time faults at about 6’.

31 years.
Still can’t touch this.

What was Sweet n Low’s JC name?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Fred;7821961]
I saw this video this morning, and of course thought, oh yes, Thoroughbreds ‘kill’ the jump.
:wink:

It is not just the quality of the jump, but the beautiful canter, the lightness and athleticism.

The great Sweet n Low.

http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/tbt-sweet-n-low-puissance-record-still-stands[/QUOTE]

What an incredibly wonderful horse!!

[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;7823191]
What was Sweet n Low’s JC name?[/QUOTE]

from article linked above: “Sweet’N Low was a 9 at the time of their puissance victory. He’d come off the track in Pennsylvania as a 3-year-old, bought by horseman Jack Rockwell and then sold to Donald and Barbara Tober, who owned the company that made Sweet’N Low artificial sweetener. Sweet’N Low’s Jockey Club name and breeding have been lost over the years—the Tobers renamed him after the brand.”