TB Pedigree Eval for Eventing

Hello! I’m new to the forum! First post here so please let me know if I make any faux pas :slight_smile:

Would love opinions on this geldings pedigree; I’m having him vetted this week with an eye on him for eventing (likely not past prelim level).

Astaire

Thanks!

My jaw dropped at your horse’s pedigree. I thought I clicked on the wrong horse in my half awake state. You probably realized this, but he’s a full brother to champion Essential Quality, who won the BC Juvenile, Belmont Stakes, Travers, $4M and counting of earnings, will likely be the favorite for the BC Classic this fall, knock on wood.

Class begets class. While racing didn’t work out for this horse, I would suspect he will ooze quality coming out of that family and breeding program.

4 Likes

As Texarkana says, this horse is equine royalty in the racing world. Two questions come to mind… why only one start, then offered for sale as a competition horse? A royally bred horse like this would “normally” be given more than only one start before cutting him from the barn. There’s a reason why, I would investigate this question and see if the answer may or may not disqualify him from being an event horse. And, why is he gelded? “Normally”, he would remain a colt IF POSSIBLE, until he has totally disqualified himself as a racehorse or even a racing sire without a good race record himself, trading solely on his full brother’s success. There may be some perfectly acceptable answers to these questions, but they would be my first questions.

Other than that, it would be great fun to try him in a different discipline. There is some jumping blood in there too. Good luck! Send pics here if you get him please!

5 Likes

The gelding Astaire you’re getting vetted is 2 this year, correct? If no, also interesting there are no published works despite him starting in one MSW race in February of this year. Finished 10’th of 11 and the chart says basically always outrun. Track was listed as Sloppy.

There is also an Astaire from Ireland that is 10 this year.

This link says he is 4 years old and was ‘injured after his first start and retired.’

Astaire Horse Pedigree (pedigreequery.com)

My question too…hes 5 and only one start and now for sale. Definitely has issues. Nice pedigree though.

I’m having the same questions come to mind as well now that I am looking into
his breeding more closely. I am a fairly experienced horse person, but not experienced in vetting and purchasing OTTBs. I don’t want to end up with a money pit instead of a horse.

How skeptical should I be?

The seller seems upfront enough. She’s told me she doesn’t know a ton about his racing history.

I am having an extremely thorough vetting done tomorrow morning. What questions should I ask the vet? I’m planning on flexions all around, rads of his front feet (including navicular view), and rads of anything that flexes positive.

Should I be concerned about tendon issues that would have ended his race career? I am buying him (potentially) moderately cheaply as a very lightly restarted project. I’m buying him off videos (in which he seems very sound). I will mention I am a young professional with resources to do all of this- but as I said not well versed in TB/racing industry.

Goldophin does a good job identifying what is a lack of talent pretty early on, and they tend to place their horses with good connections rather than push them.

Other posters have already touched base on how special his pedigree is for racing, but for sport there’s no reason to think he wouldn’t make a fine eventer. He’s by Tapit, so we know he can canter and jump. Tapit possessively seems to sire that ability. A side note: I love Elusive Quality, personally - I used to find my eye drawn to horses sired by him.

Nice linebreeding to Fappiano and In Reality, two sires coveted for eventers for their staying ability and boldness, particularly during the long format.

1 Like

I love horses w In Reality :heartpulse:.

I can’t count :blush:

Born 2017
MSW at Gulfstream last February (not this February). Video is available (at least through Equibase).

I would be curious what the injury was that caused his racing retirement. Although based on his one race, maybe just not cut out to be a racehorse. Not all TBs like the game at that level but doesn’t mean they wouldn’t make a very nice sporthorse. I would check tendons in all his legs just to be sure but you might be ending up with a real gem of a horse :slight_smile:

some very interesting articles about his family.


"His dam, fellow homebred Delightful Quality, had visited leading sire Tapit in 2016 and produced a fine colt in 2017. You can guess that he was well regarded by his very name, Astaire.

“He was a good-looking colt, and we had high hopes for him,” recalled Michael Banahan, Godolphin USA’s Director of Farm Operations.

“Astaire was such a good-looking colt that he encouraged us to go back to Tapit. Have to stick to your convictions!”"

Darley is essentially the richest racing program in the world. They have the money and wealth of experience to recognize when a horse isn’t going to make the top races (because of injury or lack of talent or whatever) and place the horse elsewhere sooner rather than later. A well bred horse with one start and an injury would not worry me coming from them, whereas in a different situation I may view it as a red flag. Their horses are started very properly, consistently receiving the best in care on every level, and rehomed appropriately if they aren’t going to be highly competitive. They aren’t going to drop a horse into cheap races just because he is expensively bred.

I’d be more concerned with who has him now and what wear and tear they may have put on him.

“Tendon injury” can mean a lot of things. But a lot of tendon injuries will not hold up to racing speed yet be non-issues for jumping, even at upper level heights. So I would ask the vet their opinion on the tendon.

3 Likes

As far who has him now and wear and tear: the info I have is that he was purchased by an adult ammy June 2020, was very lightly restated, and then sat in a field. He’s for sale now because his owner is pregnant and needs to move him. Currently he is w/t/c under saddle and has popped a few small cross rails. In videos of him he appears quite sound and comfortable.

1 Like

And to be clear- there has been no mention of a tendon injury beyond the report in one article that mentions he was “retired due to injury””. Which is vague. There’s a second article stating he was retired due to just being slow. The seller states she has no knowledge of any injuries.

1 Like

Well, I would LIKE to see a minor tendon injury, that would SOOTHE my questioning mind. Tendon injuries for racehorses are like being “a little bit pregnant” if they remain in race training, but heal up very well if removed from race training and with time and light exercise. I’d rather have a tendon injury than many other things that may end a racing career. I’ve had several BAD ones that remained sound and competitive as jumpers, long term. It may have been so slight as to be only found on ultrasound, VERY minor when found. But enough to end his racing career with skilled and caring equine professionals calling the shots. And if so, you likely won’t even find it now. And very likely that it won’t ever be a problem in the future. HOPE for a tendon injury- it’s a good excuse for a horse to be removed from race training. If nothing else shows up on your PPE, assume that that might have been it? Good luck with this, still waiting and hoping for pictures if you get him.

PS please don’t ever change his name for his sport career! His pedigree needs to be able to be searched. With Godolphin’s comment on their opinion of his physical attributes, he’s obviously a “looker”. Maybe he just needs a different branch of the equine industry in order to truly shine! He’s royalty.

2 Likes

Nancy M, You nailed it!

I called Godolphin and spoke with them this morning. He was retired at 2 due to mild front proximal suspensory desmitis in both fronts. He was rested and rehabbed under the best of care (shockwave, etc), and deemed 100% sound by their vets before being rehomed to someone who they regarded highly. He showed absolutely no interest in racing so they just didn’t try again after his rehab. Godolphin was exceptionally helpful and said if I do purchase him, and I ever run into any problems, to just give them a call. They spoke extremely highly of him and said he was a barn favorite for his trainability and kind nature.

PPE just started and is happening now! I let the vet know to take a very close look at the suspensories, with the aim of him being able to maintain soundness at a career at training level. (Or beyond, if he wants to!)

Stay tuned for more info from the PPE and hopefully pictures!!

17 Likes

:+1:

That discovery at 2 YOA would not bother me at all - and if the horse showed zero reactivity after flexions to his suspensory, I wouldn’t be concerned going forward either. They very likely caught this early before it was ever an issue, simply because they have the resources and money at their disposal to go over every horse in their string with a fine tooth comb when it isn’t performing as expected.

Godolphin/Darley also tends to rehome through trusted connections and word of mouth; a few of my friends that have worked for Darley have gotten top class horses that way. They all seem to share something in common - they are exceptionally well started and cared for.

Keep us updated!

2 Likes

Well, he vetted nearly perfectly. Vet checked suspensorys and didn’t see any cause for concern. She agrees that he was impeccably cared for as a young horse and he shouldnt have any more risk of injury there than any other horse would!

I was able to get more of a back story for him as well. He was taken home by one of Godolphin assistant trainers after he was retired. She then got pregnant, had a kid, and had some life problems. He has about two months under saddle cumulatively since he came off the track. Most of his time has been spent turned out in a field. So we’re not looking at any recent wear and tear either.

So - I am buying him!

I feel like I may have just gotten the deal of the century. I’m paying low low four figures for him. Heres hoping he has a long, successful, happy, sound career as a sport horse!

I have some pictures of him I can post later today :slight_smile:

21 Likes

Please on the pictures - that’s a COTH rule… it didn’t happen without pictures.

Sounds like you have yourself a nice find with an impeccably bred young TB. Looking forward to reading about your journey with him.

What a class operation to take the time to get you all that info. :clap:. Congrats on the new horse!

7 Likes