So I went to Northview to see Medallist, who looked like a good fit on paper / in the right ( aka modest by race standarda) studfee for the mare I was looking to breed. And he was a nice stallion. But then they just had to show me the guy that was clearly the barn favorite: El Padrino. Now his fee is above what I should consider for this mare but oh my is he a lovely mover. Listed at 16.2 he looks bigger. Even just walking down the barn aisle he had big swingy gaits, reaches well under himself. First foals are 2 YOs now but I would keep an eye out for them in the future if they look like him. I don’t like him on paper : AP Indy ( good) , Mr. Prospector top and bottom ( not a fan of line breeding Mr. P) and Stormcat bottom ( also not a SC fan). But…it works for him .
I saw him race and he was an impressive dude to see. Not sure how sound he was, but he was with Pletcher and that means he was in “a program.” He was pin fired heavily at 2 after having “shins” but that is not uncommon if they think they have the talent to make it to the big races in the spring.
His 1/2 brother is Verrazano and his younger 1/2 sister La Madrina just won her debut very strongly at Gulfstream. He hails from a fabulous female family. El Padrino only retired last year and I don’t know if he covered any mares. If he did he won’t have 2yo’s until 2016. You could be getting in early on a hot young sire if his first foals are nice. I’d try to determine if he has any due this year as he was retired in April of last year.
He did not breed any mares in 2013. This year will be his first year at stud.
I went back and looked at the brochure on him. I thought it said his 2013 yearlings sold for x at keenland. It sorta did. It did say that in large print… It was preceded by that in small print “family of” ! I did see the pin firing marks . They really stand out. He had a really nice “sexy walk”. Swingy through his back . I got to see all the stallions, which includes Smarty Jones. EP seemed to be a favorite … The stallion manager and groom seemed extra fond of him and had him on the loosest shank so he must be well behaved . They said he is polite and easy to handle covering mares.
I like El Padrino also, and as Linny said his dam’s breeding is incredible.
I had to back away from him because his fee is just too high for me and I’m pretty sure it’s set while some of the others at Northview are negotiable.
Last year was my first attempt at breeding and boy was I naïve. I bought a somewhat expensive season from the VA TB stallion season sale and my mare slipped the foal so I lost everything. What a tough learning experience!
This year I’m taking my chances with a new stallion but he comes with live foal guaranteed and he’s a good physical match and a nice nick for my mare. His female family is as good as El Padrino’s but his breeding is not as stylish as El Padrino’s. Cutting through sentiment and glitter and getting to what I can afford and a good match for my mare has been really hard for me but I think I managed to do it this year.
The stallion stations who hire glib, charming Irishmen as their managers really know how to market their stallions! It’s very hard to walk away from their charm!
[QUOTE=SEPowell;7510373]
I like El Padrino also, and as Linny said his dam’s breeding is incredible.
I had to back away from him because his fee is just too high for me and I’m pretty sure it’s set while some of the others at Northview are negotiable.
Last year was my first attempt at breeding and boy was I naïve. I bought a somewhat expensive season from the VA TB stallion season sale and my mare slipped the foal so I lost everything. What a tough learning experience!
This year I’m taking my chances with a new stallion but he comes with live foal guaranteed and he’s a good physical match and a nice nick for my mare. His female family is as good as El Padrino’s but his breeding is not as stylish as El Padrino’s. Cutting through sentiment and glitter and getting to what I can afford and a good match for my mare has been really hard for me but I think I managed to do it this year.
The stallion stations who hire glib, charming Irishmen as their managers really know how to market their stallions! It’s very hard to walk away from their charm![/QUOTE]
For the future, just in case you’re not aware, no guarantee seasons can be insured for just about every aspect of the process (stallion not available, mare slips, foal born dead, etc.) It’s a bit pricey but should you need it, it prevents you from losing everything.
Of course, I am not doing the breeding, and it is very easy to spend OPM (other people’s money), but I think he is gorgeous. The only things I can find to comment on are his front legs (light boned compared to the rest of him and not the best in front profile. But you saw him. Does he walk straight?
Also, how is your mare in the front leg department? If her legs are not the best, I would pass, unless you saw pictures of his other close relatives and they all had lovely front legs.
The other comment I think is worth noting are his feet. He has absolutely no heels. Of course this might be due to race track farriers; if so he will grow heels as he ages. Did he retire sound? Or did he have an accident? If he had lameness issues, then I might pass.
Have you done a hypothetical mating with your mare? If you are going to sell the foal, then it will be better regarded if the nick is an A or AA.
I love the Pulpit (& AP Indy) sire line. Something about them just speaks to me.
SEP is correct the others at the farm per the Irishman ( grin) are neg and his fee is firm though it is LF. I eyeballed his heels and pondered the same thing , is it just the race trim? Seeing him in person his bone while not heavy gave the overall impression of being in proportion to his build, it didnt strike me as big heavy body on fine legs. That is a reason i dont like storm cat…he does tend to do that. From the front: he toes out slightly but walks straight. He does not have the wonky Mr. Prospector right knee.I’m not sure about how he retired ( sound) will ask the Irishman on Monday…going to the MD farm then to see one more: Dance With Ravens. Some of his early kids are turning up as sport horses so I am curious enough to go look at him too. DWR is also an AP Indy bred.With the amount of swing in his gaits now though … Safe to say he is not at all lame currently. The mare: has good feet and legs. Problems she needs fixed are a higher set on neck, taller ( she is short/ only 15.1h) and temperament: she can be snarky. So…I need height, better neck and pleasant personality. Medallist whom I really went to see got an A++ nick with her. EP came up no rating, DWR got a D nick. The good news about the ratings is they may help convince me to stick in budget …the guy with the lowest and neg stud fee also happens to come up the best nick by a long ways…
Dance With Ravens is VERY popular with the eastern eventing folks–at least his OTTBs are.
[QUOTE=LaurieB;7510432]
For the future, just in case you’re not aware, no guarantee seasons can be insured for just about every aspect of the process (stallion not available, mare slips, foal born dead, etc.) It’s a bit pricey but should you need it, it prevents you from losing everything.[/QUOTE]
Thank you, It never occurred to me to consider insurance.
He was impressive to watch racing-- mainly because of his presence. I do wonder how you’d recoup a $5000 stud fee on a sport horse foal by a racing stallion, though. I don’t mean that rudely-- just realistically.
Although if you’re truly interested in him, what I’d do is watch the auctions next January. You can get no guarantee seasons at a serious discount. Northview usually has quite a few seasons offered in various auctions.
[QUOTE=Texarkana;7511546]
He was impressive to watch racing-- mainly because of his presence. I do wonder how you’d recoup a $5000 stud fee on a sport horse foal by a racing stallion, though. .[/QUOTE]
very true. he still has a presence off the track too. But he is an unusually nice mover! Not being able to realistically afford the stud fee…back to keeping an eye out for a filly of his that didn’t run well down the pike…
interesting point about the auction seasons to keep an eye out for next season…
[QUOTE=camohn;7511625]
interesting point about the auction seasons to keep an eye out for next season…[/QUOTE]
That’s what I have to do to breed to race on my budget. The $5K-$7.5K sires on my list all went for under $2500 this year in various auctions. Some sold for under $1000.
It’s no guarantee, but you can at least purchase insurance (something I have never done myself, though!).
Also, there’s a season to El Padrino up on Star Equine right now:
https://www.starquine.com/category/201/Stallion-Seasons/listings/2807/EL-PADRINO-Season.html
Might be worth contacting the seller. 
The Dance With Ravens’ have been very well regarded for sport. They jump well and have good minds. Xctrygirl’s horse “Petey” is a DWR and he’s wonderful.
Between the two (not knowing a thing about the mare) I’d offer this: The DWR’s sell OK. They’re mainly mid-Atlantic based buyers. They are very nice but a bit plain in that they DWR doesn’t put much flash on them, like Indy did. When it comes to sell, they are for the “connoisseur” or the educated eye. Being a mature stallion, you can easily hunt about and find offspring to look at and see what traits he throws and determine how they could sync up with your mare.
There is a decent chance that El Padrino will but a bit of flash in his babies and if they get his “swagger” (to borrow a term from my 14yo son) they could sell very well. It appears that he’s well mannered so there is a chance he will throw even temper. Of course, as a freshman, it’s all a crapshoot and an expensive one at that. El Padrino was rested after the KY Derby (he was 13th) and returned in December to be second to a nice horse in an allowance in FLA. That was in December. He remained in training but didn’t race again and his retirement was announced in April. Between the pin firing at 2 and the spotty record after that, I would guess that he wasn’t the soundest thing on 4 legs, but Pletcher’s barn has been known to take a toll. April is an odd time to retire a colt. It’s really too late to get mares to him. If he’s sound, you will keep him in training. My conclusion is that he didn’t retire sound.
I will admit to being a fan of Medallist when he raced and when he was at stud in NY. He was fast and handsome.
Mare is bred Roanoke/ Rock Point on top, US Flag on the bottom … But is mini me of Hoist The Flag…wish she did favor the topside ( for both build and temperment…). One hopes that will come out in the woodpile yet …
Went to see Dance With Ravens. He was indeed a plain brown wrapper sort . He had a little swing to his gait but not like the swagger of ElPadrino. Mostly it was his feet I had an issue with. His toes were pretty badly chipped up. My mare is prone to Shelly feet. They are good now on supplements but they take a bit of extra work to keep it that way… So iffy hoof quality is a pass for me. Now there was another stallion next to him also of the plain brown wrapper type: Redeemed. He hails from Pleasant Tap on the dams side. Not too many Plesant Colony line stallions around anymore. And bonus he is free of the usual suspects: no Mr.P, no
Storm Cat, only one cross to Northern Dancer back a ways. A solid boned boy quietly napping in his stall . I preferred him if I want to go PBW . With my mare it would line breed pleasant colony 4 x 5 . Back in his racing days he won at 12f, so definitely not the sprinter type i wanted to avoid! His first foals arrive this spring.
I like Redeemed! Did you look at Fairbanks while you were there? Another plain brown wrapper but nice. I also like Bullsbay although he may be too large for your mare. He was a very sound horse and according to his exercise rider has a super mind.
I’m dying for you to take a short trip north and check out Doubles Partner. I’m breeding my Artax mare to him this year… if I ever get her down there!!
I’m glad you’re passing on El Padrino. Relative to other stallions of comparable breeding, ability and history of soundness I think he’s over priced. But what do I know? So much of this remains a mystery to me.
I did not look at Fairbanks because of the up front Storm Cat in his pedigree, not a fan of SC. Bullsbay his neck was ok…but not what I was looking for to improve on my mares and he was a bit long in the back. The MD stallion manager said " you would be amazed at how few mare owners actually come look at the stallions , everything is done on paper." I probably wouldn’t … Especially for folks whom nicks and pedigree are the be all/ end all. Personally I want to see their feet, how they use their shoulder/ reach under them and " overall impression" which is hard to get from a sales photo.overall I think my top 2 picks at this point are down to Medallist ( best head and neck, most “balanced” overall impression, best nick with my mare at A++) and Redeemed ( less commonly found pedigree with Plesant Tap whom I really do like, excellent hip, best overall bone… He is built solid!).
Well, I’m looking forward to hearing who you choose. I really like both and would have an impossible time choosing between them.
