I was checking the TB stallion service auctions and found this guy, recently moved to Iowa from Canada: http://www.pedigreequery.com/spaniard4
Any thoughts on his potential as a sporthorse sire? I really like him on paper - 8 crosses to Tourbillon, plus others known to add jumping ability. His conformation looks good too, at least from the photos I’ve seen (there’s another one on the sporthorsedata site).
He’s close enough that I could send a mare (TB) to him.
Opinions?
Thanks!
If you like him on paper, my advice would be to pay a visit to the farm for an inspection. I think it would be important to see him in person. My own personal experience is that after a while everything on the internet and in photos started looking the same. In person was a completely different experience.
Some horses may look similar in photos but completely different in person when you can walk around them and do a full 360 view.
How far would you have to travel to see this stallion?
Is there any video showing how he moves? At the farm I don’t think you will be able to see more than just him at a walk.
I’d want to see him also. From the two photos of him and Candy Ride on PQ, phenotypically he’s almost a clone of Candy Ride.
Deb Bennett did a series on TB conformation and asserts that the overwhelming impact of the Eclipse line (from the Whalebone line) has resulted in the concomitant overwhelming phenotype of a shorter necked, bunchier muscled, shorter legged TB today. It’s a quite interesting series which was very kindly sent to me for reading by a COTHer.
His mother is also the dam of Indian Blessing, so that is good.
As far as a sport horse, you should go see him.
There are some nice( and fast) Candy Ride’s out there, but he can also throw crooked legs.
His mother is also the dam of Indian Blessing, so that is good.
As far as a sport horse, you should go see him.
There are some nice( and fast) Candy Ride’s out there, but he can also throw crooked legs.
Why don’t you take a look at Arromanches in Indiana?
He’s gray, but I really like his record and his pedigree. Take a look at the thread on the Eventing Board.
Why don’t you take a look at Arromanches in Indiana?
http://www.pedigreequery.com/arromanches
He’s gray, but I really like his record and his pedigree. He was an iron warrior at the lower racing reaches who won races until he was nine years old.
Take a look at the thread on the Eventing Board.
Didn’t know that he had died in 2013. Sorry.
Good looking horse IMO. nicely made, lot of hip. I would suspect the same would be said when seen in person. Owned and raced by his breeder. Good people very respected in the the TB racing world.
I know this pedigree well. Have bred to Candy Ride. Bought and sold his sire to Argentina. Saw Candy Stripes a number of time when visiting Argentina.
Have sent mares to Carson City. Saw Flying Chevron on the racecourse a number of times. And when he was sold as a 2 year old in training.
I have worked with a number of Wavering Monarch (tail female line dam sire) line horses, all seemed to have good mines. As do the get of Candy Ride.
This is a link to a half sister’s sale page who sold at Keeneland in Nov 2015 who sold for $550,000. Big money for a mare in foal to a very good by older stallion.
arromanches is dead and if he wasn’t collected (majority of TB"s are not), then hes a no go
I like the Candy Ride son you have posted. Which service auctions are you looking at?
I also like this one available from the VA TB auction in Feb:
http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/166945/brethrenhttp://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/166945/brethren
First Dude is available through that auction too. Always admired his build
http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/129058/first-dude
HIgh Cotton could sire some nice sport horses as well. Fappiano up close, AP Indy, Capote, and Northern Dancer. All popular sires in a sport horse TB> Hes lovely
http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/130196/high-cotton
Astreides is also available in VA sale. A Medaglia D’Oro son who is making some nice sporthorses!
http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/168796/atreides
Look at FLashback. Hello mr sexy!!
http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/168440/flashback
Perfect Soul: By Sadlers well and out of a daughter of Secretariat. He is very affordable for 2000 in the TB standards. Great sport horse sire written all over him. They might even offer a non TB breeding to him if you asked. I cant imagine he has a huge book of mares
http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/133387/perfect-soul-ire
Tapiture goes back to the Bonne Nuit lines. Hes a little more pricey though but might be able to score a deal
I just checked out the leading Indiana sire list for 2016, and the leading sire is Benny The Bull, who has some excellent lines for a sport horse, but his fee was 3K.
His photo on the PQ page is quite lovely.
http://www.pedigreequery.com/benny+the+bull
I thought he was an attractive horse when I saw him when he was still in Ontario. Here is a picture I took of him.
Thanks to everyone who responded. I’ll try to answer questions in one post–
I agree that I need to see him “in person,” not just to check out his conformation but to evaluate his temperament as well. Also to check out his owner and the farm where he stands. Fortunately, he’s only about 2 hours away.
He’s listed on the Minnesota TB Assoc auction (Book II), closes 1/31. I thought he was on another one too, but I can’t seem to find it now.
Nice as the other suggested stallions are, most don’t have the bloodlines I’m looking for–Tourbillon and other Herod-line horses. Some are also too far away or standing at farms that undoubtedly have $$$$ mare care.
Viney–is the series by Deb Bennett available online? From what you said, I’m not sure I agree with her, but I’d like to read it. (Isn’t she the one who said that racehorses aren’t riding horses?)
Gumtree–as always, lots of good information.
K~2–thanks for posting the photo–I love his expression. BTW, Legal Jousting is on my Wish List of stallions I’d like to breed a mare to. Now if I can just figure out how to ship one from Missouri to Ontario. Ironic in a way because we vacation in Ontario every summer, but I don’t think stowing a mare in a boat would work…
No one commented on this stallion’s bloodlines, which I think are quite unusual considering the current trends in race-bred TBs. Any input on his bloodlines and potential as a sporthorse sire?
Again, thanks!
His Sire, Candy Ride’s Male line goes back to Fappiano, Mr Prospector, Hoist the Flag. Candy Ride’s dam line goes back to Blushing Groom. All good sires to have in a sport horse TB pedigree. Candy Ride’s female line is primarily argentine bred with some irish and british/france lines back to the 1960s.
His Dam, Shameful’s male line goes back to Mr Prospector Blushing Groom, Icecapade, and Sir Ivor. Also all good names to have in the immediate pedigree of a sport horse. His dam line traces back to Nijinski, Nashuah,Nasrullah, Robot, Mahmoud, Nearco but it’s pretty farm back but all still good names to have in there.
He is doubled up on 3 sires: Mr Prospector, Blushing Groom, and Herbager in his immediate pedigree.
Herbager was a stunning TB stallion who looked very much like an early version of a Hanoverian stallion with a tremendous uphill build. He was bred in France and is primarily British blood in his pedigree. He was a tremendous turf horse and stood at Claiborne farm.
As far as Spaniard’s conformation: I think he is a very complete, sturdy and stout looking horse. His conformation reminds me a lot of Herbager. I like his overall balance. What type of sport horse are you looking for? Event, dressage, hunters? I would like to see more angle to his shoulder to give more free movement from the shoulder but a video of his walk would help with making judgement on that
And also from going through his pedigree, I’d consider breeding him to something with great shoulder angle and some strength.
For low level sport pursuits, I think Clever Trick horses are fin-- but IME, that is very much a race line… though I’ve met a few horses by Phone Trick (including one of my own) that were very nice movers. He looks enough like CT even with it that far back that I might not have given him a second glance, except I really like Candy Ride. He very much has the CT head + mini-ears.
I really like Carson City + Herbager - I’ve seen some very nice movers for eventing from both, and when looking at horses at the track have always had my eye drawn to Carson City horses. They have a very distinct air, I think – and most of them are pretty nice movers and very good jumpers. I think Cryptoclearance was Fappiano’s best son for event-type horses, but he made some hard kids – at least the ones I handled. The linebreeding to Herbager is promising - he was an incredible source of jump talent/turf talent.
Personally, from a conformation standpoint, I’d want to know what you want to breed him for because he does not have sport-horse conformation. His shoulder is placed too far forward, with a too far forward forearm – perfect for racing and speed pursuits like barrel-racing, not so good for jumping. There are some conformation flaws I am able to overlook, but for my discipline, a too-far forward placed forearm is not one of them - it does not bode well for folding limbs easily over a fence… it’s very much a ‘speed trait’.
You’d be better off going with a horse who has proven to produce sport-horses.
my personal opinion is to look at a stallion like Perfect Soul who is available for not much more money, $2000, and they might even give you a discount for a stallion like that on a non TB mare (my guess is his book isn’t tremendously big). Hes available in the VA stallion auction I believe.
He is short backed, balanced, uphill build, strength and width not seen in TB’s today, big hindquarter and lovely bone.
Sadlers Wells was a tremendous sire sired by Northern Dancer and he was tremendous on turf. Native Dance can make them pretty movers with great athletic ability through his grandsire Mahmoud, who I absolutely love in any TB for sport’s pedigree. His dam, by Bold Reason was a 1/2 sister to Nureyev.
His dam is by Secretariat who is very well sought after for sport horse lines today. I have personal experience with a few close knit sons/daughters of secretariat and all were lovely movers, big sweeping shoulders and had lovely jumps on them. They were beautiful horses to look at.
I think those two lines of Secretariat on Sadler’s wells could make some very nice sport horses.
Here is another stunner I came across in my research. He is stunning and $1000 fee. The farm is having a stallion show on Feb 4th so perhaps they can get some video of him if youre interested. they have quite a few photos of him on their facebook page and he is just as stunning when not posing for photos. They have several lovely looking stallions at very affordable prices
http://www.osullivanfarms.com/Stallions/declanswarrior/
Sired by Majestic Warrior (AP Indy x Seeking the Gold) and out of a mare sired by Saint Ballado.
I have always admired this stallion also. Just a lovely type, beautiful head on him. Not sure how he would be as a sport horse sire but he has a lovely shoulder.
http://earanches.com/haimish-hy/
Rimrod, by Danzig is another lovely stallion. Danzig lines are just fabulous.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/134214/rimrod
UpTownCharlieBrown. Another stunner. AND he’s BAREFOOT. a sign of a TB stallion with big, good feet.
http://www.diamondbfarmpa.com/uptowncharlybrown.html
Kennedy (AP INDY x Deputy Minister). Lovely horse but again, shoulder might be a little too far forward
http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/137920/kennedy
Beowulf mentioned how much they liked Carson City in the pedigree of the stallion you started this thread about. Here is another Carson City horse, a son. He is very appealing to look at conformationally. This one is a little more bred for sport than the one you are inquiring about!
He’s by Carson City and out of a mare by Storm Bird. The 2nd dam is a daughter of Secretariat!! Great lines here for sport, beautiful head and neck, beautiful topline with great bone and shoulder. He is standing in OH for $2000 but that price might be different for a sport horse breeder. Hes lovely.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/126977/city-weekend
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