I’ve got a weanling who when he gets bored he starts pawing in a very striking way (if you ate standing in front of him, your getting hit) I’m glad he is so flexible and able to get his leg so high (ha) but how do you nip a habit like this in the bud?
Many moons ago I sent a very large and bolshy 3yo hanoverian away for some schooling. They were no nonsense type of people! He started pawing badly when tied and would not wait quietly. One day the trainer hid with a broom around the wall from the horse. The second he began to paw she swung around the corner and struck a few times at his waving leg with the bristly-bit of the broom and then vanished out of sight around the corner again. The look on the young horse’s face was priceless! 
Two more of these encounters and he never pawed again.
I’m not saying that this method should be repeated but the idea is to make it very clear that it is not going to be tolerated. Punishment should be loud and clear - a little slap and growl won’t do it. Administer the repercussion immediately and consistently.
I’m sure others here will be of more help.
Best of luck!
I know a trainer who keeps a water bucket outside every horses stall, and when the horses who come in for training paw and act rude for breakfast/lunch/dinner in their stalls they get a bucket of water tossed at them.
Every one of their horses has amazing manners so it must work well
hmmm… I’m having this issue as well. Filly paws while she’s eating, and has started to do it while she’s tied and bored. I haven’t seriously addressed the issue yet because I don’t want it to be confused with punishment related to tying. But it isn’t striking, just obnoxious movement.
I’ve taken a little different approach and keep her occupied while I’ve got her tied with short breaks of being alone. I’m keeping her from ever doing it. Once her tying training is more solid I’ll probably take the broom approach. Swift, direct correction then step back and let her think about it.
I would not use the water bucket approach for my filly. She’s supposed to be an eventer and I don’t want her to associate water with punishment, would make bathing and water jumps a battle when she’s being introduced to them.
If it’s at feeding time and a horse is being obnoxious I find ignoring them works best. You want to paw, fine but you aren’t getting your feed until you stand still and wait for it.
90% of pawing behaviour is management related.
I don’t bother with the pawing, hoof-wagging or the various dancing while they’re eating. That is an expression of pure enjoyment of the food they’re eating. Almost all babies wiggle their feet around or do some sort of little dance while they’re eating their kibbles. I totally ignore it. Most youngsters grow out of most of their food exuberance, but a few don’t. You can seriously make a mountain out of this mole hill and it’s not worth it. They’re eating, leave them alone. Make sure your horses can eat their kibble-yums in privacy without threat from an unwelcome neighbor.
I also don’t care about minor pawing when they’re waiting for breakfast, lunch or dinner hay, unless they’re practically climbing the fence or the stall wall or wall kicking and being overly destructive in which case I voice my displeasure, which every horse knows I say what I mean and mean what I say. That all being said, I actually don’t have any horses that do that. A couple will bang the dirt softly with their front paw, but they’re not excessive about it. I ignore it and just get on with feeding. They’re hungry - get on with business! They don’t have the privilege of opening the fridge in between meals for a snack when hunger hits. Pawing and displaying at dinnertime is the only way they can express to you They. Are. Hungry. Maybe they are too hungry? Instead of yelling at them, fix the problem. Make them less hungry in between meals.
All I care about is they mind their space boundaries while I’m putting out hay and hanging up their bucket of yummies. Even the foals learn to stand off and wait for me to leave the bucket first. I absolutely will NOT tolerate being rushed at while I’m putting out hay or a bucket of kibble.
Retraining a horse who had poor manners instilled from a prior owner takes time. Rome was not built in a day and un-doing lack of training, bad training, or inconsistent training requires firm patience. Actually the horse never forgets the prior training, good or bad. What really happens is they learn that YOU expect something different from them than their previous person did. If you’re fair, consistent and firm, they will comply and be happy to do so.
Horses are smart that way.
One thing that works for me at feeding time is I make sure everyone is doled out a small snack-sized portion all at the same time. The small snack piles eliminate food anxiety, gets them all started at the same time, and bickering and food-challenges are virtually eliminated and everyone is happy. This buys me time to go on adding to the piles until everyone has what they need. In my situation, it doesn’t work to set out one big pile at a time. The boss gets the first one and the others get anxious while they wait.
If you have a lot of horses displaying pawing and extreme hunger behavior at feeding time, you may want to rethink your feeding regimen. Either more frequent feeding or find a way to get them more volume so they are less hungry in between meals.
As for pawing while tied - that depends on the horse and the situation. Have they been cooped up and have too much energy they can’t deal with? Fire off some of that energy before making them stand there for hours at a time.
Youngsters should not left tied for unending periods of time anyway. Tie your whatever age youngster, get to work grooming them, do what you need with them, untie them, reward them for good behaviour and put them outside to play and burn off steam. You can MAKE a pawing or vice problem start by letting them get bored. Keep their mind busy! Everything you do with a youngster has a purpose, a plan, and is a method of teaching them something. Even if you didn’t plan to teach them something, you are still teaching them something (perhaps undesirable), so make good and sure you always have an Education Plan EACH DAY.
As for older horses who’ve already learned the behaviour, some horses are doing it for your attention. You come up and smack them, or yell at them, but they still got what they wanted - YOU. They want You Time, so stop socializing with all your friends and pay attention to your 4-legged friend first and socialize afterwards. This type of horse does best by not giving them the attention they’re demanding - only approach when they’re standing quietly, at first for a 10 seconds, then lengthen it over a long time as they learn greater patience. Get on with business, reward them for good efforts, and get on with your day. Some are just anxious at standing there. Smacking them or yelling at them for that doesn’t work either because what they really need is life skills training. If you don’t know how to teach an anxious horse coping skills and life skills, get some help from someone who can. Some horses do it to be naughty. That’s where firm, but calmly administered discipline comes in and discipline comes in many forms and works differently for each horse. Some only require a sharp clapping of your hands for them to go “yes ma’am”. Others a sharp growl. Maybe one or two need a hand slap. Better yet, get on with your business while they’re tied there - get in, get done, get untied and put them out.
I had one that laid down while tied - he wanted ATTENTION. He would paw and then brightly look in my direction, ears pricked and it encouraged him when he saw me watching. When I ignored him, he lay down - that stopped when the dressage whip came across his butt. But for him, the pawing was - “Pay attention to me. I want some You Time.” So for him, it was all business in the tie stall. He got groomed, saddled, ridden whether in ring or trail or jumping, hand-walking and hand grazing Me Time, then tied, groomed and rubbed down, and then undone, rewarded for being a good boy and out to pasture to play. He stopped pawing.
Before you can fix it, you need to understand WHAT the issue is, WHY it has become an issue and then figure out HOW to fix it. Throwing a bucket of water at them can teach a horse to dislike water which is very inconvenient at bath time. And to boot, it doesn’t really figure out why this is an issue in the first place. Fix the issue and you automatically fix the behavior.
I don’t bother with pawing while they eat either, my yearling paws while she eats… like its so exciting, but never while being impatient. This colt learned impatience from his mother, she has a pawing problem. I try to keep him busy while he is tied etc, but I had him for the vet the other day and it took him not even five minutes to start throwing his front leg up in the air. I understand he is still young and will eventually learn to be patient etc. I also believe he is in that adolescent stage where they are absolutely intolerable… haha. But now that he is weaned his manners are far better… just curious if anyone had done anything. I’ve known people who carried a dressage whip around and would flick their leg everytime they pawed (not beating, but enough to punish and make it quick…)… which seems similar to the broom idea…(which made me laugh by the way).
I think this is not a bad idea because the horse gets immediate feedback, immediate relief when he stops pawing, and you don’t have to yell at him.
[QUOTE=Cindyg;7253562]
I think this is not a bad idea because the horse gets immediate feedback, immediate relief when he stops pawing, and you don’t have to yell at him.[/QUOTE]
Oh that is interesting… hmmm
I worked at an establishment that used a similar idea. It was a belt with short lengths of chain hung from it. It was buckled above the knee. The chains banged on the horse and made a noise whenever he moved a front foot. I’m not sure how well it worked really. The fact that the horse needed these on whenever he was in cross ties was a worry to me. Plus I really think he rather liked the effect of the jangling chains on his legs!
I read years ago that horses move while they’re grazing and have a hard time standing still while eating out of a bucket. After all, they’re meant to forage… :yes:
I have had a number of younger horses come in for backing that have pawed initially. Often I think the behaviour comes from insecurity. At feeding time if they are extra emotive it is often a warning for others to ‘stay away’ from their wonderful food. I like to feed them on the ground in soft rubber tubs, with their heads lowered the solid stall walls make them feel more secure, they can push the tub all around their stalls and with the neck lowered there is almost zero pawing or kicking. This way they do not bash their knees into the feed tub and eating off the ground is more natural for their bodies anyways. If youngsters paw/strike in the crossties or while having their front feet picked out often it is because they are a bit worried. I will tie them in their stall on a short, soft, elastic quick release for the grooming and tacking up. The stall seems to make them make them feel more secure than the crossties and the wall in front of them basically eliminates their ability to strike forward with the front feet so I do not end up having to ‘discipline’ them at all. A few sessions with the stall wall in front of them seems to dissuade them from the action and then I transition them back to the cross ties, always with success.
[QUOTE=siegi b.;7253817]
I read years ago that horses move while they’re grazing and have a hard time standing still while eating out of a bucket. After all, they’re meant to forage… :yes:[/QUOTE]
I have a weanling that makes me laugh, she does a great Elvis imitation when she eats.
[QUOTE=Emy;7253982]
I have had a number of younger horses come in for backing that have pawed initially. Often I think the behaviour comes from insecurity. At feeding time if they are extra emotive it is often a warning for others to ‘stay away’ from their wonderful food. I like to feed them on the ground in soft rubber tubs, with their heads lowered the solid stall walls make them feel more secure, they can push the tub all around their stalls and with the neck lowered there is almost zero pawing or kicking. This way they do not bash their knees into the feed tub and eating off the ground is more natural for their bodies anyways. If youngsters paw/strike in the crossties or while having their front feet picked out often it is because they are a bit worried. I will tie them in their stall on a short, soft, elastic quick release for the grooming and tacking up. The stall seems to make them make them feel more secure than the crossties and the wall in front of them basically eliminates their ability to strike forward with the front feet so I do not end up having to ‘discipline’ them at all. A few sessions with the stall wall in front of them seems to dissuade them from the action and then I transition them back to the cross ties, always with success.[/QUOTE]
While mine are all fed in a pasture together, I agree with feeding off the ground or low as it imitates the natural grazing habits of eating off the ground… never thought about keeping them from hitting their knees. Another thing I was once told was that if you feed them at shoulder height or above they can unnaturally strengthen the bottom of their necks, where having them eat off the ground will allow natural development
Great post! anybody with green or ottb horses will benefit reading this. Thanks for posting!
I don’t bother with the pawing, hoof-wagging or the various dancing while they’re eating. That is an expression of pure enjoyment of the food they’re eating. Almost all babies wiggle their feet around or do some sort of little dance while they’re eating their kibbles. I totally ignore it. Most youngsters grow out of most of their food exuberance, but a few don’t. You can seriously make a mountain out of this mole hill and it’s not worth it. They’re eating, leave them alone. Make sure your horses can eat their kibble-yums in privacy without threat from an unwelcome neighbor.
I also don’t care about minor pawing when they’re waiting for breakfast, lunch or dinner hay, unless they’re practically climbing the fence or the stall wall or wall kicking and being overly destructive in which case I voice my displeasure, which every horse knows I say what I mean and mean what I say. That all being said, I actually don’t have any horses that do that. A couple will bang the dirt softly with their front paw, but they’re not excessive about it. I ignore it and just get on with feeding. They’re hungry - get on with business! They don’t have the privilege of opening the fridge in between meals for a snack when hunger hits. Pawing and displaying at dinnertime is the only way they can express to you They. Are. Hungry. Maybe they are too hungry? Instead of yelling at them, fix the problem. Make them less hungry in between meals.
All I care about is they mind their space boundaries while I’m putting out hay and hanging up their bucket of yummies. Even the foals learn to stand off and wait for me to leave the bucket first. I absolutely will NOT tolerate being rushed at while I’m putting out hay or a bucket of kibble.
Retraining a horse who had poor manners instilled from a prior owner takes time. Rome was not built in a day and un-doing lack of training, bad training, or inconsistent training requires firm patience. Actually the horse never forgets the prior training, good or bad. What really happens is they learn that YOU expect something different from them than their previous person did. If you’re fair, consistent and firm, they will comply and be happy to do so.
Horses are smart that way.
One thing that works for me at feeding time is I make sure everyone is doled out a small snack-sized portion all at the same time. The small snack piles eliminate food anxiety, gets them all started at the same time, and bickering and food-challenges are virtually eliminated and everyone is happy. This buys me time to go on adding to the piles until everyone has what they need. In my situation, it doesn’t work to set out one big pile at a time. The boss gets the first one and the others get anxious while they wait.
If you have a lot of horses displaying pawing and extreme hunger behavior at feeding time, you may want to rethink your feeding regimen. Either more frequent feeding or find a way to get them more volume so they are less hungry in between meals.
As for pawing while tied - that depends on the horse and the situation. Have they been cooped up and have too much energy they can’t deal with? Fire off some of that energy before making them stand there for hours at a time.
Youngsters should not left tied for unending periods of time anyway. Tie your whatever age youngster, get to work grooming them, do what you need with them, untie them, reward them for good behaviour and put them outside to play and burn off steam. You can MAKE a pawing or vice problem start by letting them get bored. Keep their mind busy! Everything you do with a youngster has a purpose, a plan, and is a method of teaching them something. Even if you didn’t plan to teach them something, you are still teaching them something (perhaps undesirable), so make good and sure you always have an Education Plan EACH DAY.
As for older horses who’ve already learned the behaviour, some horses are doing it for your attention. You come up and smack them, or yell at them, but they still got what they wanted - YOU. They want You Time, so stop socializing with all your friends and pay attention to your 4-legged friend first and socialize afterwards. This type of horse does best by not giving them the attention they’re demanding - only approach when they’re standing quietly, at first for a 10 seconds, then lengthen it over a long time as they learn greater patience. Get on with business, reward them for good efforts, and get on with your day. Some are just anxious at standing there. Smacking them or yelling at them for that doesn’t work either because what they really need is life skills training. If you don’t know how to teach an anxious horse coping skills and life skills, get some help from someone who can. Some horses do it to be naughty. That’s where firm, but calmly administered discipline comes in and discipline comes in many forms and works differently for each horse. Some only require a sharp clapping of your hands for them to go “yes ma’am”. Others a sharp growl. Maybe one or two need a hand slap. Better yet, get on with your business while they’re tied there - get in, get done, get untied and put them out.
I had one that laid down while tied - he wanted ATTENTION. He would paw and then brightly look in my direction, ears pricked and it encouraged him when he saw me watching. When I ignored him, he lay down - that stopped when the dressage whip came across his butt. But for him, the pawing was - “Pay attention to me. I want some You Time.” So for him, it was all business in the tie stall. He got groomed, saddled, ridden whether in ring or trail or jumping, hand-walking and hand grazing Me Time, then tied, groomed and rubbed down, and then undone, rewarded for being a good boy and out to pasture to play. He stopped pawing.
Before you can fix it, you need to understand WHAT the issue is, WHY it has become an issue and then figure out HOW to fix it. Throwing a bucket of water at them can teach a horse to dislike water which is very inconvenient at bath time. And to boot, it doesn’t really figure out why this is an issue in the first place. Fix the issue and you automatically fix the behavior.[/QUOTE]
I ignore the behavior I don’t want and praise the behavior that I do want…so when a horse paws when I am brushing I will just ignore…or walk away and do something else and come back when there is no pawing.
Tying and leaving a horse in the alley of your barn and go about cleaning stalls is a good way to teach a horse patience…I did this with my youngsters increasing the time they had to stand tied quietly…if they paw during this time it is ignored and I remove them from the wall after they have stood with out pawing for a couple of minutes.
Dalemma
I tend to agree with Dalemma.
I expect my horses to learn patience, at an early age, even if only for a few moments initially. My horses should be able to stand there patiently should I choose to indulge in idle chit-chat with my friends or on the phone! But seriously - there may be a number of reasons where I am unavailable to baby-sit an otherwise bored or naughty pawer. My horses learn not to expect the exact same routine each day - somedays involve coming in for a quick brush only, others may include a trim from the farrier, or a full schooling session, or bathing and plaiting.
My horses do not get to choose how I spend my time!
See, I am still not convinced that you can make every horse behave.
I have 2 full brothers. Both I have raised. The older one was at a friends for a while where I think he may have learned a few bad habits, but he has been with me for 90 percent of his life.
The older one has terrible ground manners. I have never allowed the bad behavior and tried numerous ways to stop his pawing and antics at shows in the stall.
These behaviors don’t continue undersaddle but he never seems to improve his ground manners.
His younger brother has great ground manners. Never paws and was quiet as a mouse at the first show he went to!!!
I would love to find the solution to the bad behavior, but have yet to find it!!!
I have tried ignoring, tried the lunge whip and tried the patience training. He finally gives up with the patience training, but never seems to stop acting up at the shows in the crossties and in the stall.
I never said you could make every horse behave !! But I still try to teach them the best I can. Every horse is different.
This is a great post and I have a question for the slightly older… (4 years old)
At home Lilly will stand quietly and stand well for mounting. However when we went to a show and I wanted to take her into a bareback class she was striking, not pawing, but striking in what I assume was anticipation of wanting to join the others who were riding around. She would NOT stand still and I did not feel comfortable trying to climb my way on her while she is wiggling around.
I can’t correct the behavior at home as she will stand still for mounting forever! Its just at the show she gets so (I can only guess) eager to participate that she starts to wiggle like a happy puppy and I can’t get her to stand still.
What would be the solution for that? Especially need one that won’t seem abusive when I correct at a show.
At the show, don’t get on till she stands still. Practice getting on when you don’t have a class and have all day to do it.
