Teen Understanding of the HJ World

[chirpybirdie]

New poster. forgive me for intruding, felt you guys may be of help.

To keep it brief I am a hunter/eq rider who transitioned to dressage a few years ago and now ride dressage full-time (small jumps here and there). I have a good young teenaged friend who I’ve known for a few years. We boarded at the same place but went our separate ways. To briefly fill in she went from the Motel 6 of boarding to the ritz carlton in a little under a year. I would not lump her fam with the 1% but they do seem to put their daughter’s horse hobby high on the priority list (she is not an only child).

Anyway having done HJ for so long, but not showing in a while, i sort of thought I understood where the politics were/etc. I also surf these forums often and I am not seeing people here having the same beliefs/ideas that she has?

Since moving to Ritz Barn she’s developed a very elitist mentality. I’ve been to her barn and I can say for certain she didn’t grow it there. Her barn is one of the homier barns on the property (huge park) and her trainer is extremely down to earth.

I am not a teenager. I am trying to remember what it’s like to be that age? She seems fixated on the idea that you must must must buy the horse to be successful at all at the shows she wants to attend (AA). She says 6,000 for a show is cheap. She has no interest in learning about horsemanship. She thinks everyone secretly wants a show barn. She berated me for not having my horse in full training saying she would be messed up and how could i possibly know what to fix, i’m not a trainer? But I trained her from scratch, and she knows this… She also says the sport should stay for the elitist and it is an insult to make it more affordable and attainable. Due to financial issues dressage is all I can afford show wise. She cannot understand, at all, how I do not have the money to enter the same shows she does?

Anyway. I was trying to cut this short. Can someone who may be in the know perhaps decode and help me understand where my friend is coming from? Is there some sort of new trend in HJ i’m no longer privy to? Where is she developing these beliefs, as I have only truly heard them from those who really have no insider knowledge? I don’t want to judge, I just want to be informed so I don’t have to feel angry and resentful of her completely… detatched worldview.

Thanks.

[alternate_universe]

If she’s a kid and you’re an adult… and she talks and acts like this… why on earth are you even bothering with her? She’s not a “friend”. She’s a nasty child who is very rude to adults.

[chirpybirdie]

For some reason she thinks I’m cool but she treats me like I am one of her schooling buddies… of which I am not.

We dont talk that much anymore. She tells me about all the shows she goes to but that’s about it. I have no idea where these beliefs of hers even blossomed from… she will be off to college next year so I hope the reality of the world will kick her good.

[blondewithchrome]

LOL - that mentality has always been “here” in H/J world, sadly. When I was a junior kids acted that way and they still do. It’s out there and unfortunately I think always has - and always will be. I think your young friend will get a very harsh wake up call when she is off to college and post-college and mommy and daddy stop footing the bill…often I’ve found this attitude comes from a disconnect with reality when it comes to finances and what the majority of the horse world is like.

[Scribbler]

Kids try on all sorts of identities. Sometimes those are music subcultures (punk, goth), sometimes those are political, sometimes they are gender bending, and sometimes they are trying on different social class allegiances ( guaranteed there are girls from her income bracket thrift shopping and busking on street corners, playing poor).

Because they are teens, pretty much any identity they adopt is going to be a bit exaggerated, a bit self conscious, and to adults somewhere between deeply annoying and sweetly ludicrous

There’s a lot of in your face wealthy swagger in the culture these days. Child has clearly decided she needs to perform Rich Rider for her personal identity but has no idea how to do that convincingly.

I would just let the child drift away for a few years and pick up again when she’s grown a brain.

[Another-Bay]

Echoing what everyone else is saying. Kids (teenagers especially) have peer pressure up the wazoo these days and they do not always act wise when they feel like they have to impress others.

When she behaves this way, you can calmly refute it or ignore it. But I wouldn’t get worked up about her opinions.

[2DogsFarm]

Like most here have said: Teenager :rolleyes:
& I smell Peer Pressure :dead:
Maybe not from her barnmates or trainer, but someone there has sent the message that Money = Success.

She may very well be trying out this new (& irksome) persona on you as she knows you so well & probably admires your knowledge & experience.

IIWM, I’d not just let it slide, but neither would I make it a BigDeal - just answer her as you would a rational adult spouting the same BS.
You can offer her the Wisdom it has taken you years to learn & your perspective on the whole $$$ thing in regards to riding & showing.
She may secretly want your input to balance what she is being exposed to in her new Horseworld.

[chirpybirdie]

Thank you for all the advice and insight. I barely remember what it was like to be her age but I certainly did not have her opportunities growing up, not even close. I work very very hard for what I have and have to pick and choose what is financially feesable. (Parents) Droppjng 6k a weekend for thermal and wef and Devon and other shows blows my mind, especially when she lives in my area.

I take great pride in caring for my horse mostly independently (I have training rides once and a while) and decided teaching myself to fish was longer lasting than hiring someone to fish for me. I hope that when she starts school in another state where the economics and world understanding are different she will be opened up to new realities…

I’m just starting HJ again and her peddling of trends what keeps one from winning scares me because I don’t have the 6 figure horse or the 500 dollar custom coat! D: back when I rode those requirements were mostly rumors and if you need an expensive horse at your local rated show… yikes.

but I still don’t think that’s real :lol:

[Scribbler]

If you are a teen, you are all potential and absolutely no CV. All your status relies on convincing others you are going to be great. It’s the ultimate fake it til you make it age, and many ambitious teens feel constrained and inadequate and also like impostors. That’s true whatever identity they are claiming. Hence the stupid trash talk.

I expect this teen is looking for a way to project not just that daddy has money, but that she has reached a level of competency and that she is worldly wise enough to know how things are “really done” in the “big time.” And may be getting a glimpse of the big leagues for the first time and trying to figure out how she can get there.

Hence she is actively ignoring anything that points to other models of success, because being a teen her model has to be the only one, or she is completely invalidated.

If you really have her ear, you need to somehow point out that other people enjoying their horses in different ways doesn’t make her choice invalid.

Thats a hard concept for a teen to get: their thinking is all or nothing, and they make very fine but completely judgemental distinctions that are often lost on adults. I’m a Goth not a punk, I’m gender queer not gay, I’m a socialist not a liberal Democrat, I’m this label in contrast to that label. Now these are all differences that matter alot if you are on the inside, but don’t seem that important if you are not. Having a 16 year old lecture you on them especially when you’ve been through similar eons ago, can be sweet or tiresome if you agree with their position, but really really grating if you think they are wrong headed.

Even having a 25 year old lecture you.

So if you can’t really pull her up in a supportive way, just let her go try out this identity and pick up in a year or two when something has replaced it.

[Pennywell_Bay]

@chirpybirdie

…

I’m just starting HJ again and her peddling of trends what keeps one from winning scares me because I don’t have the 6 figure horse or the 500 dollar custom coat! D: back when I rode those requirements were mostly rumors and if you need an expensive horse at your local rated show… yikes.

but I still don’t think that’s real :lol:

So- my first thought is this whole thread is meant to stir the pot. Kind of in the vein of the trends/braiding/what wins threads.

If it is not, then I am not certain why you would take the word of a kid if you are an adult. Good rounds, being clean, having an appropriate mount for the classes- $500 custom coat not needed.

[TheMoo]

@Pennywell Bay

So- my first thought is this whole thread is meant to stir the pot. Kind of in the vein of the trends/braiding/what wins threads.

If it is not, then I am not certain why you would take the word of a kid if you are an adult. Good rounds, being clean, having an appropriate mount for the classes- $500 custom coat not needed.

I had the same thought. However, I think the OP and her friend are probably the same age. I can’t imagine calling a high school kid my friend. A barn mate maybe but friend, no.

[chirpybirdie]

No pot stirring here… but I HAVE been told by this person that the above-mentioned is true. Of which I have heard in other pockets of the equestrian world in this same age group. I don’t understand why anyone would support keeping this sport for the top 1% of the population? I think the same conversations are going on in dressage but I have never ever felt stared at or unwelcome at a dressage show.

We are not the same age. I am in my 20s and work in the legal industry, she wants to be part of the medical field. We used to board at the same barn where there were no age barriers - 50 year olds were friends with teenagers as we all rode in the same program. Why do you find that weird? Maybe your definition of “friendship” is different than mine. I don’t think it’s an intimate friendship but she comes to ride my horse on occasion.

What really blows my mind is her grand, broad, determined assumption that everyone wants a horse born and bred for this sport. An OTTB or another breed who has talent but not the pedigree can never be an attractive option for people… so I cam here to fact-check her references and perhaps get insight into WHERE this hair-brained idea came from?

[findeight]

Oh for heavens sake. Teens can act like this anywhere, horses or not. She’s getting it someplace, maybe barn peers maybe friends outside the barn. And certainly there some is parental/ family attitudes rubbing off. The old keep up with the Jones need to impress others by spending more money, having a fancier house, car, horse and clothes. Adults play that game too.

That really has nothing to do with HJ and everything to do with personality and parent/ peer pressure and example.

Dont understand why the older Adult OP is even interacting with this rather entitledbrat, probably insecure teen beyond minimum pleasantries. It’s not her kid, not a fellow client and buried in teen issues best handled by parents, not outside, unrelated adults.

Part jf me wants to say kid needs to grow up and Adult needs to as well. Concerns over what others have and can afford is childish and pointless. Somebody is always going to have more then you do, being jealous over the boasts of a teen is a real waste of time.

Oh, and having a better horse and/or better trained horse is not politics.

[chirpybirdie]

@findeight

Oh for heavens sake. Teens can act like this anywhere, horses or not. She’s getting it someplace, maybe barn peers maybe friends outside the barn. And certainly there some is parental/ family attitudes rubbing off. The old keep up with the Jones need to impress others by spending more money, having a fancier house, car, horse and clothes. Adults play that game too.

That really has nothing to do with HJ and everything to do with personality and parent/ peer pressure and example.

Dont understand why the older Adult OP is even interacting with this rather entitledbrat, probably insecure teen beyond minimum pleasantries. It’s not her kid, not a fellow client and buried in teen issues best handled by parents, not outside, unrelated adults.

Part jf me wants to say kid needs to grow up and Adult needs to as well. Concerns over what others have and can afford is childish and pointless. Somebody is always going to have more then you do, being jealous over the boasts of a teen is a real waste of time.

Oh, and having a better horse and/or better trained horse is not politics.

Thanks Findeight, any ideas on how to cut cords with this young person? I called her out a while back and she told me she’d never talk to me again :lol: to my relief. 10 minutes later apologizes and asks for forgiveness and an “agree to disagree” understanding. When I was her age i was extremely attracted to people older than me for their wisdom and knowledge. Most of my friends are in their 40s and 50s (barn friends mind you). So I definitely don’t consider age an appropriate barrier for relationships. Kind of wanted this relationship to stay horse-only. Lately she’s been leaving me alone apart from texting me multiple pictures of her trips down in coachella.

it does have everything to do with HJ though because where are these ideas flowing from??? I thought asking here might give me insight. I am not at all involved in the show world anymore in this sport and my experience in dressage is totally not the same.

[JustTheTicket]

I think when mommy and daddy stop paying for all the fancy things, she’ll change her tune. I wouldn’t even bother listening to her. Kids always say crap like that because they don’t have a clue. When she’s paying $6,000 for a show and $5,000 for board and training fees and vet bills and farrier and… she’ll probably stop saying stupid stuff like “this shouldn’t be attainable for everyone.”

Also- block her number. Ignore her at the barn. Don’t interact with her on social media. You’ll bore her and she’ll move on.

[chirpybirdie]

@JustTheTicket

I think when mommy and daddy stop paying for all the fancy things, she’ll change her tune. I wouldn’t even bother listening to her. Kids always say crap like that because they don’t have a clue. When she’s paying $6,000 for a show and $5,000 for board and training fees and vet bills and farrier and… she’ll probably stop saying stupid stuff like “this shouldn’t be attainable for everyone.”

Also- block her number. Ignore her at the barn. Don’t interact with her on social media. You’ll bore her and she’ll move on.

We don’t board at the same place. But she is my only “friend” in that world. I guess I sort of use her as my reference to understand it, since i have no other access. So the things she says and comes up with I can’t refute or find contradictory ideas because I simply don’t have any source material to draw from…

[comeoutandplay]

Teens are often completely self-absorbed. The way they are doing things is the only way, anything else is outside their interest. Anyone doing things definitely threatens their confidence in the path that they are on. You aren’t going to change this in a casual barn acquaintance. It’s not H/J related. She probably thinks that whatever academic plan she’s doing is the best and everyone else is crazy if they don’t want it, same with her top choice college, top choice career, any other hobbies, etc.

If she is behaving badly, call her out. You don’t have to talk down to her, definitely don’t argue with her, but call out rude behavior. You don’t have to explain to her that you don’t need a 60k horse to be successful, but you can tell her that the way she is focusing on money and looking down on others is rude, off-putting, and inappropriate. It is especially inappropriate to be discussing the dollar amounts her family spends, that is private information that is between herself, her family, and her trainer. Bragging about anything does nothing but cause jealously or more often, flat out dislike for anyone. Just like no one needs the person who got a 100 on a test to announce their grade to the class, no one needs the privileged to point it out. Let her know that you’re not interested in spending time with her if is can’t control her behavior. If she apologizes, ask her what exactly she is apologizing for and if her answer isn’t something along the lines of being rude or treating you disrespectfully then it’s not an adequate apology.

You sound like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder. I don’t totally blame you since this girl is kind of putting you on the defensive but she is a kid, old enough to know better but part of the beauty of being an adult is that you can see through kids’ bluster and not let it get under your skin. Just because she thinks the way she is doing things is the best and only way doesn’t mean it’s not a perfectly acceptable way of doing things. She’s clearly riding and showing at a different level from you- that doesn’t mean she’s a better rider, but it is different with different expectations and requirements. Try not to be too judgmental of high level show barns just because this kid is a PITA. There’s nothing wrong with spending a lot of money on horses and shows if the family can afford it or relying on the expertise of a trainer, and that doesn’t mean she can’t ride.

She’s also not necessarily totally wrong on all things hunter/jumper. Depending on the quality of your local circuit, their may be some $$$ horses in full training showing against you and they can be hard to beat on a self-trained budget horse. If that’s the case, it’s best to enter that situation with eyes wide-open and expectations in check (note, it does not mean you can’t win against these horses, but it will be more difficult and take some luck and/or pilot error on the part of other riders). At the shows she goes to, everyone probably does have a custom coat and 6 figure warmbloods. It doesn’t mean you need one to show, but that might be the norm and there’s nothing wrong with that. That might be where that “hair-brained idea” comes from.

Maybe she’ll get a reality check as an adult, maybe her parents will foot the bill for this indefinitely. Who cares though? It sounds to me like you need to prove that you are right and she is wrong and that’s ridiculous. Just make sure that if she is rude, you make it clear that you’re not interested in hearing it and model respectful confidence in yourself.

[chirpybirdie]

@comeoutandplay

Teens are often completely self-absorbed. The way they are doing things is the only way, anything else is outside their interest. Anyone doing things definitely threatens their confidence in the path that they are on. You aren’t going to change this in a casual barn acquaintance. It’s not H/J related. She probably thinks that whatever academic plan she’s doing is the best and everyone else is crazy if they don’t want it, same with her top choice college, top choice career, any other hobbies, etc.

If she is behaving badly, call her out. You don’t have to talk down to her, definitely don’t argue with her, but call out rude behavior. You don’t have to explain to her that you don’t need a 60k horse to be successful, but you can tell her that the way she is focusing on money and looking down on others is rude, off-putting, and inappropriate. It is especially inappropriate to be discussing the dollar amounts her family spends, that is private information that is between herself, her family, and her trainer. Bragging about anything does nothing but cause jealously or more often, flat out dislike for anyone. Just like no one needs the person who got a 100 on a test to announce their grade to the class, no one needs the privileged to point it out. Let her know that you’re not interested in spending time with her if is can’t control her behavior. If she apologizes, ask her what exactly she is apologizing for and if her answer isn’t something along the lines of being rude or treating you disrespectfully then it’s not an adequate apology.

You sound like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder. I don’t totally blame you since this girl is kind of putting you on the defensive but she is a kid, old enough to know better but part of the beauty of being an adult is that you can see through kids’ bluster and not let it get under your skin. Just because she thinks the way she is doing things is the best and only way doesn’t mean it’s not a perfectly acceptable way of doing things. She’s clearly riding and showing at a different level from you- that doesn’t mean she’s a better rider, but it is different with different expectations and requirements. Try not to be too judgmental of high level show barns just because this kid is a PITA. There’s nothing wrong with spending a lot of money on horses and shows if the family can afford it or relying on the expertise of a trainer, and that doesn’t mean she can’t ride.

She’s also not necessarily totally wrong on all things hunter/jumper. Depending on the quality of your local circuit, their may be some $$$ horses in full training showing against you and they can be hard to beat on a self-trained budget horse. If that’s the case, it’s best to enter that situation with eyes wide-open and expectations in check (note, it does not mean you can’t win against these horses, but it will be more difficult and take some luck and/or pilot error on the part of other riders). At the shows she goes to, everyone probably does have a custom coat and 6 figure warmbloods. It doesn’t mean you need one to show, but that might be the norm and there’s nothing wrong with that. That might be where that “hair-brained idea” comes from.

Maybe she’ll get a reality check as an adult, maybe her parents will foot the bill for this indefinitely. Who cares though? It sounds to me like you need to prove that you are right and she is wrong and that’s ridiculous. Just make sure that if she is rude, you make it clear that you’re not interested in hearing it and model respectful confidence in yourself.

Thanks for the insight. this is what i came for. not looking to be vengeful or upset just looking to understand her POV from a non-involved source and someone who may know where she got these ideas? You are right she does have some points. I remember having that B&W idea about the world. Then I went to college and was quickly kicked in the butt for being a self-entitled spoiled brat! :lol: I am so glad I am not in that headspace/age group anymore! Being grown-up is so nice :yes:.

I always, always keep in mind she is under voting age and eventually she will be at a level where we can talk as equals. I haven’t discussed this with her in some time but I was just wondering if anyone on COTH had similar run-ins or stories told and heard. Thank you!

Note to say I am not ashamed to admit that I would kill to board at her barn… if they had more turnout for my horse (it’s a 10 barn property and no turnouts so horses stay in their stalls). But I also love my podunk barn and am happy where I am, so I drive to visit her when I want to play horse make-believe

She’s a good girl deep down. her attitude took a 180 after she moved. I was concerned being surrounded by this lifestyle would change her greatly as it has many of the people who left our old place for bigger and better programs.

[TheMoo]

OP I don’t think you have to cut ties completely. That being said this behavior isn’t limited to kids in the horse world. Adults do it too. In all honesty, I feel if one wants to compete at the top in hunters, she’s not wrong in her assessment. She also doesn’t get that she’s wrong for the rest of us.

[babecakes]

You should have seen Dr Phil yesterday about the self-absorbed young female. Normally I turn that shit off but this was so far over the norm that I had to watch I couldn’t believe it! She pointedly did things wanting to make other people feel bad about themselves. Her opinion of herself was so high she’d never come down. Bad parenting, bad culture, bad society.