Tell Congress to Pass the SAFE Act Banning Horse Slaughter (different petition)

So who is going to be accountable?? Not everyone gets to pass the buck.

[QUOTE=Fairfax;7130559]
That has NOTHING to do with the industry. Again…this is a judicial matter. A police matter. A collection matter.

I is not for a slaughter house to collect…same as a person who owes a vet money will not be harrassed by his dentist.

They are both Dr.s but totally removed.

As much as you try and place the non collection blame on an industry that isn’t even up and running…demonstrates to readers who know anything about finances…that your side has not thought ANYTHING out

It was up and running - several of those fines date back to when they were up and running why were they not collected???

Many TBs just go for rendering. Anything that has been on the track .
Just how do you think they get dead?? They don’t “just” get rendered. They go to the auction. We have both a race track and an auction here. Actually the number of tb’s ending up there has gone down in the last few years.

As for the 75000 FERAL horses…they are NOT wild mustangs tracing back to anything. Most are by Quarter Horses and paints and have just been allowed to run over the native reserves and land allotments.[/QUOTE]

It does not matter what you call them or what I call them - it is a very hot button issue.

The 75,000 domestic horses may be a hot button but theyu are also organized regarding them.I have been told that any group that protests and blocks their shipment will be given an opportunity of 14 days to round them up and transport them out and find homes for them for the same amount they would be paid at auction.

This could be a bill of around 2 million dollars. A WONDERFUL opportunity for HSUS to start the seed money and use their considerable resources to set up a large rescue.

Anyone who does not agree with slaughter is always welcome to SAVE A HORSE…

This is the worst nightmare for the anti crowd. Telling the “original” natives what they can or can not do with their horses. The other point the anti crowd will soon be aware of is the ability for natives to cross the border with goods any time they want. (This is why contraband cigarettes are so cheap)

The anti crowd will either have to put up or shut and and I gather they will be sqawking to the media…but the natives will ltoss out the racist card…

This is the perfect opportunity for the anti crowd to do what they claim is available. Find homes for 75000…oh…they will toss out all of their propoganda…but the natives will have land conservation and environmental groups on its sides…the same ones who are banning horses from National Parks because they deficate grains into areas not know for have those plant species.

Water conservation groups will also applaud the removal of these “pests”

The natives also have top notch lawyers and well developed Washington connections.

Bzzt. They put a Democrat in the governor’s mansion and presto/chango…a surplus. Funny how that works.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/10/us-usa-california-budget-idUSBRE9090PV20130110

Glad to hear it. Now they can pay their electrical bill to British Columbia which is in excess or FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS. They claimed, in the courts, there was no money…as evidenced by their ongoing slashing of all school budgets.

Jerry Brown? 28 BILLION dollar WALL OF DEBT? 100 BILLION in UNFUNDED LIABILITIES

Jerry Brown?

Yahoo!News has additional details in California facing higher $16 billion shortfall

Under Brown’s tax plan, California would temporarily raise the state’s sales tax by a quarter-cent and increase the income tax on people who make $250,000 or more. Brown is projecting his tax initiative would raise as much as $9 billion, but a review by the nonpartisan analyst’s office estimates revenue of $6.8 billion in fiscal year 2012-13.

That was from last year… and he did boost the coffers by taxing the heck out of everyone. On another forum a lady stated they had a $2000 deck built AND the next California license and inspection fee was $1500 on top. She wanted to build a barn (Northern California) but decided against it because a structure of more than $10,000 costs $5000 plus for all of the permits.

That is why people are fleeing California.

[QUOTE=Fairfax;7130464]
Oh my…comprehension time

When there is a shortage of money for projects…then the county’s will start to collect the money. They send Three letters and if no action they SELL the account to a collection agency. California does it all the time and they are near bankruptcy…but last year they did collect in the millions at no cost to the state.

You put up a road block as they do now…for transport trucks…and they have a list of things they look for…and they write tickets on the spot and take a credit card payment. ALL commercial truckers will tell you they get hit all of the time and it is the cost of doing business.[/QUOTE]

So you’re saying, out of one side of your mouth, ‘enforce the existing laws’ while the other side of your mouth is saying ‘there’s no money to enforce the laws’?

Got it.
You have no actual answers to the obvious, longterm problems of this industry. Duly noted.

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;7130790]
So you’re saying, out of one side of your mouth, ‘enforce the existing laws’ while the other side of your mouth is saying ‘there’s no money to enforce the laws’?

Got it.
You have no actual answers to the obvious, longterm problems of this industry. Duly noted.[/QUOTE]

Not sure where you get that from…
But then again, I am not sure where you get most of your other ideas from either…

Enforcement of fees is the government’s problem.
FF just told you how things work when one particular government branch needs the income. how does this translate into not having the money to collect?
Oh, never mind…

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;7130790]
So you’re saying, out of one side of your mouth, ‘enforce the existing laws’ while the other side of your mouth is saying ‘there’s no money to enforce the laws’?

Got it.
You have no actual answers to the obvious, longterm problems of this industry. Duly noted.[/QUOTE]

And you seem to be saying, no matter what you say, I will find fault with it.
Duly noted.:lol:

[QUOTE=Bluey;7130803]
And you seem to be saying, no matter what you say, I will find fault with it.:lol:

I think there is way more than any one here knows is really happening.
I think that most here are just looking for an angle to benefit whatever they are pushing.

Definitely that fellow’s clear intent is to harass and attack and the rodeo management and the police are trying to defend themselves from real and imagined mismanagement.

All of them are on the war path, as is what SHARK thrives on, of course.:rolleyes:

None come across as very credible.:no:[/QUOTE]

I think you are in the wrong thread…

But then again, you are not…

Yep, strange new world.

[QUOTE=Alagirl;7130809]
I think you are in the wrong thread…

But then again, you are not…

Yep, strange new world.[/QUOTE]

Oh, yes, thank you, will delete that.
Wild Blue keeps kicking me off the internet and then gets me back who knows where, evidently on the wrong place.:uhoh:

WildBlue does that on the weekends, too much traffic maybe?
Others have that problem?

Got my post in the right thread now, thanks!:slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Bluey;7130813]
Oh, yes, thank you, will delete that.
Wild Blue keeps kicking me off the internet and then gets me back who knows where, evidently on the wrong place.:uhoh:

WildBlue does that on the weekends, too much traffic maybe?
Others have that problem?

Got my post in the right thread now, thanks!:)[/QUOTE]

I dumped Wild Blue for a direct contract with Viasat, the Excede service. Wild Blue way, way oversells their bandwith. I’ve had Viasat for 6 months now with no problems.

Well we took away their land - sent them to “camps” to christianize them so effectively took away their religion and their way of living- what’s a few horses among friends right??

Fairfax:This is the worst nightmare for the anti crowd. Telling the “original” natives what they can or can not do with their horses. The other point the anti crowd will soon be aware of is the ability for natives to cross the border with goods any time they want. (This is why contraband cigarettes are so cheap)

Personal responsibility for an animal. Which translates to financial responsibility for end of use/end of life disposal NOT including auction sale or sale to kill-buyers, their agents, or OTHERS you deem unable to care for the living horse to standard XX until death do us part and then only euth/rendering.

Clearly your definition does not allow for boarding barn owners or horse trainers who have horses abandoned at their barns by delinquent owners…

The horse continues to rack up expenses so long as it is on the property. Current property law, after going through abandoned property statutes the horse is sold at AUCTION to whoever wants it, excess funds to former owner and now a determined debt amount the caretaker care sue former owner for…

Some barns even write into their contracts the right to sell the horse for non-payment, etc.

Are non-owners but paid caretakers then to become personally responsible, according to your definition, for animals dumped on them?

I also seem to see an enforcement problem for the current 'personally irresponsible owners out there which will ensue.

Not only is it more difficult to prosecute many scattered ‘owners’ unable or unwilling to provide basic care, you have provided them with an additional excuse: ‘they can’t be sold.’ Animals then need to be seized, they become State property to dispose of and …can’t be auctioned. Now the State is in the euth/render dilemma, except they also get the outcry of don’t kill them! Which dumps them onto rescues - who are not in the horse re-selling business, and whose funds are not going to cover the influx.

This takes horses out of the ‘private property’ class where right to sell is not abridged, to having a right to be sold only to certain buyers. (This doesn’t absolve the buyers of responsibility for proper care or humane transport or death; sale moves that responsibility to them. Always has.)

It also encourages ‘frivolous’ killing/rendering of horses that might sell at auction to riders and other users of horses if a horse has lost condition, skipped a few farrier visits or sat in a field for a year, is pregnant and there are no foaling facilities, owner shuts down the boarding operation, death of owner, etc.

Again your wording attributes irresponsibility (moral degradation) to people who sell at auction or to kill buyers.

I can’t go along with that use. Sellers are not immoral.

The anti slaughter will be caught.

IF they can prove they can place ALL of the horses…the old, blemished, nasty, killers etc in loving homes AND that people will pay an adoption fee…they will have proved they can then MAYBE absorb 130,000 unwanted horses per year

But the first year is going to be that 130,000 AND 75,000

They claim they can do it. That homes are just there…all ya gotta do is “find them”.

John Holland and his group…Shedrow…and its followers will have to come up with some HUGE money…maybe HSUS? And the transportation logistics are going to be a nightmare…they won’t be able to lead a couple into a two horse trailer with padding. ONCE they get them to a facility they will be faced with the challenge of MAKING Them Safe for adoption…

I know the expense and amount of work for the 101 Arabians at Edmonton…74900 more is almost beyond comprehension.

But…do it…this group must…and no midnight sneaking them over a border into Mexico like some of the rescues are doing. (or Canada…selling them at auction listed as owned by “others”)

I will enjoy watching and of course I am sure the native brothers, in Canada, who have always used slaughter…might be able to help a little.

To the other side: Becareful of what you wish for…I think you just got it

A possibility…a great native industry. Meat buyers purchase the horses and sell them, in name, to the natives, for export to Canada…where they do not have the paperwork problems with exporting out of the U.S. nor Into the U.S.

Who is to say…at the border…the horses are not from a reserve?

Race horse included…as Natives do breed for the QH, APPY, and TB B circuits.

We have, in 2007 with the misguided “BAN horse slaughter” bill, pushed then by animal rights extremist groups and again now these new bills, ALL so objectionable, very poorly written and full of holes.
Anyone with any sense would dispute and fight these bills as what they are, a boondoggle to interrupt and disrupt even more the horse industry and so eventually eliminate it.

That begs the question, if animal rights extremist really wanted to present some bills that all would agree with and so they would easily pass, since they have the riches to buy the best lawyers, lobbyist and consultants out there, why present such sorry examples for a bill?

Are they just wanting the photo-ops and free publicity, not really that those bills pass, but of course good for them if they did anyway?

To me, this sounds like they want to disrupt the horse industry by pushing for these bills in itself, independent if those bills pass or not, just by bringing them up.

That is what they are doing suing the pork industry and the beef association, just disrupt and cause everyone to have to use resources to fight them.

Yes, animal rights extremist groups have many satellite groups doing their job here and there and working at all we do with animals, these “BAN horse slaughter” bills just one more of many to them, although very important to the horse industry, as they are presented, as written, to fight, as the one in 2007 was.

What are the suits against the pork and beef industries??

[QUOTE=Bluey;7131012]
We have, in 2007 with the misguided “BAN horse slaughter” bill, pushed then by animal rights extremist groups and again now these new bills, ALL so objectionable, very poorly written and full of holes.
Anyone with any sense would dispute and fight these bills as what they are, a boondoggle to interrupt and disrupt even more the horse industry and so eventually eliminate it.

That begs the question, if animal rights extremist really wanted to present some bills that all would agree with and so they would easily pass, since they have the riches to buy the best lawyers, lobbyist and consultants out there, why present such sorry examples for a bill?

Are they just wanting the photo-ops and free publicity, not really that those bills pass, but of course good for them if they did anyway?

To me, this sounds like they want to disrupt the horse industry by pushing for these bills in itself, independent if those bills pass or not, just by bringing them up.

That is what they are doing suing the pork industry and the beef association, just disrupt and cause everyone to have to use resources to fight them.

Yes, animal rights extremist groups have many satellite groups doing their job here and there and working at all we do with animals, these “BAN horse slaughter” bills just one more of many to them, although very important to the horse industry, as they are presented, as written, to fight, as the one in 2007 was.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JGHIRETIRE;7131021]
What are the suits against the pork and beef industries??[/QUOTE]

Google it.

I will say, in some release early this year, the HSUS did say this was the year they would launch their strongest yet lobbying effort and one intent of that was to make animal agriculture use resources fighting their lawsuits.

What I think, you know when some were saying Bush the second was going to war to finish what his father didn’t, that he had something to prove more than WMDs?

I think that in 2007, the illustrious president of the HSUS was handed his head on a platter by Congress, deservedly so, when he gave his deposition and tried pushing them into doing what he wanted, pass that one BAN horse slaughter bill, just because he was telling them to.

Not so fast, they questioned him and he ended up frustrated to the point of practically threatening them with his might and all the votes he could get to fight their re-election.:eek:

The bill in the end didn’t pass.

Now, here he comes again, this time, these years later, he may think that has the right people in place to do his bidding and, with something to prove, well, here we are, pushing more such bills thru, details not important, they don’t need to be carefully drafted bills, because they are a sure deal, got all the ducks in a row, the votes in the pocket.

Sure hope not, but we will just have to see.:no:

Just like with Bush and that war, the HSUS and this war, if there was/is any to it, who knows, those are speculations we will never get an answer to them.

Allrighty then…

[QUOTE=Bluey;7131038]
Google it.

What I think, you know when some were saying Bush the second was going to war to finish what his father didn’t, that he had something to prove more than WMDs?

I think that in 2007, the illustrious president of the HSUS was handed his head on a platter by Congress, deservedly so, when he gave his deposition and tried pushing them into doing what he wanted, pass that one BAN horse slaughter bill, just because he was telling them to.

Not so fast, they questioned him and he ended up frustrated to the point of practically threatening them with his might and all the votes he could get to fight their re-election.:eek:

The bill in the end didn’t pass.

Now, here he comes again, this time, these years later, he may think that has the right people in place to do his bidding and, with something to prove, well, here we are, pushing more such bills thru, details not important, they don’t need to be carefully drafted bills, because they are a sure deal, got all the ducks in a row, the votes in the pocket.

Sure hope not, but we will just have to see.:no:

Just like with Bush and that war, the HSUS and this war, if there was/is any to it, who knows, those are speculations we will never get an answer to them.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JGHIRETIRE;7131048]
Allrighty then…[/QUOTE]

I was not thru editing for content, there is a bit more than you quoted.

Pork:
http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=745917a4-0b04-481c-9bb5-5d9d684bc7f0

The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) has sued the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) seeking to end payments made to the National Pork Producers Council (Pork Council) for the purchase of the registered mark “Pork, The Other White Meat.” HSUS v. Vilsack, No. 1:12-cv-01582 (U.S. Dist. Ct., D.D.C., filed September 24, 2012).

According to the complaint, which details the circumstances leading to the mark’s creation, development and use, the Pork Council should not have retained ownership of the mark, and the $60-million, 20-year contract for its purchase should have been terminated when USDA decided to retire the mark and create a new one. HSUS contends that the contract is funded with pork-producer checkoff program dollars, which cannot be used for lobbying. Because the Pork Council is a lobbying organization, HSUS claims that the ongoing payments under the purchase agreement violate federal law.

HSUS seeks a declaration that these expenditures of checkoff funds are unlawful, recovery of the funds already distributed to the Pork Council, an injunction to stop USDA from further “unlawful authorizations or expenditures of checkoff funds related to the . . . marks,” attorney’s fees, and costs. Among other matters, HSUS claims that it has standing to bring the action because it is forced to spend money countering the Pork Council’s lobbying and other activities, particularly regarding its own initiatives to halt the use of gestation cages in pork production. The complaint asserts in this regard, “Since HSUS resources would otherwise be spent on advocacy, legislation, and education related to improving the treatment of pigs and other animals, Defendant’s unlawful conduct directly impedes Plaintiff’s activities, and causes a significant drain on its resources and time.” An individual plaintiff, Iowa pork-producer Harvey Dillenburg, is allegedly harmed by unlawful checkoff expenditures and the use of such money by a “lobbying organization that pushes for policies that Mr. Dillenburg considers harmful to his operations as an independent producer.”

and

Citing lack of progress on a succession of legislative and regulatory fronts, the Organization for Competitive Markets (OCM) is now looking to the courts. During the group’s annual meeting last week, Fred Stokes, OCM president and director, announced that OCM and the Humane Society of the U.S. (HSUS) were joining forces to seek an injunction against USDA’s Agricultural Marketing Service, Cattlemen’s Beef Board and the Beef Promotion Operating Committee, with the aim of ending the use of checkoff funds by the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association (NCBA), the major contractor to the checkoff.

On Friday, a lawsuit was filed in District Court in Kansas seeking a court order prohibiting any beef promotion program dollars to go to NCBA. The lawsuit alleges that the NCBA receives a large majority of checkoff-funded projects, and alleges that the CBB operating committee awards the contracts to NCBA and that 10 of the 20 seats on the committee are held by NCBA members.

Among HSUS’s contributions to the effort were legal expertise and funding, Stokes said during a press conference last week. OCM had filed a Freedom of Information Act request for checkoff documents, following which HSUS legal experts advised a lawsuit. OCM was then able to engage the Polsenelli Shugart law firm to take on the case on a pro bono basis.

“NCBA has essentially taken all of our own money ”” that we have been forced to pay in to the checkoff by law ”" and used it to lobby Congress for an agricultural system, an industrialized cattle system that is contrary to the independent cattle producer’s interest," Mike Callicrate, a Kansas cattle feeder and OCM vice president, told the Associated Press on Friday.