Tell me about pin firing/freeze firing

[michaleenflynn]

A friend of mine recently got her mare pin fired; when discussing it with another friend, he told me he was surpised, as most people have abandoned pin firing for cryo (freeze firing).

Yet someone else is adamantly telling me pin firing is illegal in the U.S.

I’ve driven pin fired STBs (they had already undergone the procedure when we got them), and am familiar with the actual process, but know very little about freeze firing. (I’ve also heard all the controversy about PF being cruel, so really don’t need to hear about that - I’m in the camp that doesn’t think it is)

My questions are:

• What exactly is freeze firing

• IYO, is freeze firing superior to pin firing, and why

• Is pin firing illegal in the U.S.

I did Google, but unsurprisingly, found wildly varying answers :eek:

I trust COTHers more anyway…

[CrowneDragon]

I don’t know if either is illegal, but both are useless for their intended purpose. The only benefit is seen because the horse has to be rested after firing, and that is what the horse needed in the first place.
Serves zero purpose other than painful scarring of the skin.

[Bluey]

When we were training race horses, 40 years ago, about half the vets at the track believed firmly on pin firing, half would not touch it.
About the same with severe blistering.
I never heard of cold firing.

We were lucky our vets didn’t go there, so we never had one pinfired, but a few times we had some owner move a horse that had just been treated to us for rehab.

It is my understanding that the pinfiring was fine, but I know first hand that for some horses, the aftercare was very painful.
We had to use a cradle on some to keep them from trying to chew their legs off.:no:

I sure would not go there after having taken care of horses that had it done.
Maybe it was not done right, but what we had was definitely not good for the horses we had to take care of.

Did it help?
I think even today, the jury is out on that, no one knows if it does help or not.
I sure don’t know, been away from the track decades now, don’t know what they are doing.

[atr]

It’s been illegal where I come from (UK) for many years.

[michaleenflynn]

[QUOTE=CrowneDragon;7120573]
I don’t know if either is illegal, but both are useless for their intended purpose. The only benefit is seen because the horse has to be rested after firing, and that is what the horse needed in the first place.
Serves zero purpose other than painful scarring of the skin.[/QUOTE]

Heartily disagree. http://www.thehorse.com/articles/12383/pin-firing But thanx

[michaleenflynn]

[QUOTE=atr;7120580]
It’s been illegal where I come from (UK) for many years.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I remember hearing about that a few years back. Thanx

[michaleenflynn]

[QUOTE=Bluey;7120575]
When we were training race horses, 40 years ago, about half the vets at the track believed firmly on pin firing, half would not touch it.
About the same with severe blistering.
I never heard of cold firing.

We were lucky our vets didn’t go there, so we never had one pinfired, but a few times we had some owner move a horse that had just been treated to us for rehab.

It is my understanding that the pinfiring was fine, but I know first hand that for some horses, the aftercare was very painful.
We had to use a cradle on some to keep them from trying to chew their legs off.:no:

I sure would not go there after having taken care of horses that had it done.
Maybe it was not done right, but what we had was definitely not good for the horses we had to take care of.

Did it help?
I think even today, the jury is out on that, no one knows if it does help or not.
I sure don’t know, been away from the track decades now, don’t know what they are doing.[/QUOTE]

Thanx Bluey. Yes, the way I understand it, the aftercare is tricky, but I never heard that it was intolerable or even very painful and bothersome to the horse, interesting (and off-putting), but I have to wonder if it is because it wasn’t tended to properly. Wonder what the aftercare of freeze firing is like.

BTW, Bluey - I have read that some polo folks blister their horses at the end of every season - whether they need it or not. What is that about?

[CrowneDragon]

[QUOTE=michaleenflynn;7120595]
Thanx Bluey. Yes, the way I understand it, the aftercare is tricky, but I never heard that it was intolerable or even very painful and bothersome to the horse, interesting (and off-putting), but I have to wonder if it is because it wasn’t tended to properly. Wonder what the aftercare of freeze firing is like.

BTW, Bluey - I have read that some polo folks blister their horses at the end of every season - whether they need it or not. What is that about?[/QUOTE]

How could it not be painful to have a red hot iron punched through your skin, over and over and over? Most horse’s legs are a swollen mess of weeping sores afterwards and they are very sore.
It is an archaic practice that is not based in science and we can do much better. I’m wondering how you can “heartily disagree” with my statement, when it sounds like you have no experience with it, other than with horses with the scars.

[michaleenflynn]

[QUOTE=CrowneDragon;7120603]
How could it not be painful to have a red hot iron punched through your skin, over and over and over? Most horse’s legs are a swollen mess of weeping sores afterwards and they are very sore.
It is an archaic practice that is not based in science and we can do much better. I’m wondering how you can “heartily disagree” with my statement, when it sounds like you have no experience with it, other than with horses with the scars.[/QUOTE]

Oy.

Obviously you did not read my OP: "(I’ve also heard all the controversy about PF being cruel, so really don’t need to hear about that…)

Will not engage. Enjoy yourself.

[Amwrider]

I agree with Crowndragon’s first post, the horses are rested afterwards which is what they needed to heal anyways.

The “idea” is that the healing process from pin firing and blistering brings increased blood flow to the area to help in the healing. Not sure if I believe it. Magnets are supposed to do the same thing and I don’t believe that either.

Long term I don’t think it causes any issues, but my whole bucket of experience is from a total of one…a standardbred named Caramel Chewey who was apparently pinfired for a curb injury.

[michaleenflynn]

[QUOTE=Amwrider;7120617]
I agree with Crowndragon, the horses are rested afterwards which is what they needed to heal anyways.

The “idea” is that the healing process from pin firing and blistering brings increased blood flow to the area to help in the healing. Not sure if I believe it. Magnets are supposed to do the same thing and I don’t believe that either.

Long term I don’t think it causes any issues, but my whole bucket of experience is from a total of one…a standardbred named Caramel Chewey who was apparently pinfired for a curb injury.[/QUOTE]

Looking for info on freeze firing and legality of pin firing, not pin firing itself

[Amwrider]

I guess the best answer would be to ask a track vet. They would know if it is legal.

[moore4sure]

Pin Firing is illegal state to state. I am on Va and Wva line and it is legal in Wva but not in Va. So to answer I believe it is state to state. I am more familiar with pin firing vs freeze firing but we had a stallion and a couple mares that have had the procedure done prior to us owning them. I think the main objective of both is to get the blood flow to the area to promote healing. With pin firing being less common the procedures now they do are “scraping” or drilling shins but they are done by surgical vs a vet with a pin firing machine.

[gumtree]

Pin Firing and Freeze Firing are the same thing. One uses heat and the other liquid nitrogen. Just like “hot” branding, freeze branding has replaced the Hollywood Texas hot poker”. I have never done either personally but it was common practice when I was a kid for bows and bucked shins. I know freeze branding leaves a “cleaner” mark with far less repercussions. Pin Firing has been banned in England and Ireland. It is still practiced in this country but it has been quite some time since I have seen a horse with the “marks”.
I just text one of the head surgeons at New Bolton asking if it is still taught, “ as history not still as a current treatment”, “folks still do it plenty maybe handed down in practice or taught at other schools”.
The premise behind it was good in theory, as others said to increase blood flow but when I became in position to do things “my way” I went with a MILD blister and then a year more of less turn out. The end result was the same if not better and no scaring. Any vet that suggested it was never used again. IMO it is amazing that it was used for so long.
Side note, IMO I have also found that an “internal blister” for bucked shins is wasted money. IMO no horse should ever buck if prepared and trained correctly. If any 2 year old bucks after leaving our farm for the track I am embarrassed and have not done my job correctly.

[Texarkana]

I’ve been out of professionally handling TB layups for about 7 years now, but it was still very much common 7 years ago in the Mid-Atlantic area. If it’s illegal anywhere in the US, it’s a recent thing.

Like gumtree said, pin-firing and freeze-firing are the same thing, just a different medium to cause the burn. Neither is superior in my experience.

Not that anyone asked, but if the decision was mine for one of my own horses, I’d bypass firing for more modern techniques. I would have told you the same thing 10 years ago, too.

[bluebuckets]

Now, I’m just commenting, OP, so don’t get all jumpy

The idea could work, but I feel as though the same results could be achieved with a DMSO/Furazone/? cocktail under a plastic wrap under a standing. Doesn’t require an expert vet, doesn’t require the extremely laborious and tedious aftercare, same result.

[jetsmom]

[QUOTE=CrowneDragon;7120573]
I don’t know if either is illegal, but both are useless for their intended purpose. The only benefit is seen because the horse has to be rested after firing, and that is what the horse needed in the first place.
Serves zero purpose other than painful scarring of the skin.[/QUOTE]

This^^^^^

[poltroon]

You’ll note it’s not done to human athletes for tendon injuries.

We have better options now.

[moore4sure]

I completely forgot b4 about having a experience with freeze firing I guess I was just thinking shins but Freeze Firing can be done to a very small area … We had a horse where we freeze fired a side splint you can barely see it and its a tiny area maybe 1 inch wide and long. And the recovery time is shorter probably not on shins but different for this. He didnt have any swelling or weeping or really anything at all afterward. Again may be different with shins… I am about 99.5% positive you can not either own or operate a pin firing machine in Virginia, this was about 2 years ago. At that time you could in West Virginia but I have no idea how many other states it is or isn’t legal in.

[moore4sure]

Also just from a couple comments. I have nerver heard of pin or freeze firing done to a tendon on a horse…ever…is that something that has ever been done???