tell me why.... US bred horses are harder to find and more $$ than others?

Regarding costs, has anybody noticed that the cost of bedding, feed, hay, farrier, vet, etc… has gone up over the decades due to the price of diesel, drought or flooding, and yet it never comes back down when conditions change?

Horse prices haven’t really gone up, with the exception of the absolute superstars.

Are there other industries that have endured 200-700 percent increases in the cost of doing business and survived?

I think it shows our strong “love of the horse” that any of us have survived financially, not to mention the heartache that can come with breeding!

I think it is very wrong and frankly naive to paint Europeans as criminal thieves who sell you anything and the vets are working against us. Of course there are some bad apples over there, but it does not reflect the majority. I am friends with many German professionals that would never misrepresent what they are selling. I do agree that you need to work with an agent, because the culture is different over there along with the husbandry. Miscommunication is often the cause, not Misleading.

Tim

[QUOTE=RyTimMick;8424613]
I think it is very wrong and frankly naive to paint Europeans as criminal thieves who sell you anything and the vets are working against us. Of course there are some bad apples over there, but it does not reflect the majority. I am friends with many German professionals that would never misrepresent what they are selling. I do agree that you need to work with an agent, because the culture is different over there along with the husbandry. Miscommunication is often the cause, not Misleading.

Tim[/QUOTE]

If you are referring to my post - I am not painting Europeans as criminal thieves. I am painting some of the horse agents as less then upstanding. Have seen it happen way too often. Having said that, it is also true in the US - while there are plenty of honest sellers, we all know of someone who has had a bad experience. But - the laws are more protective of buyers here (and vets are more careful as well). So you do have greater risk going to Europe, unless you really know what you are doing. And I am sure you are one that has well established connections in Europe, which gives you a different buying experience.

ETA - most people aren’t including the cost of a good agent needed in Europe. Here in the US, an experienced person could shop on their own - the laws protect us more. So when comparing costs of US to Europe, that is one more cost to add on that you might avoid here.

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;8424756]
If you are referring to my post - I am not painting Europeans as criminal thieves. I am painting some of the horse agents as less then upstanding. Have seen it happen way too often. Having said that, it is also true in the US - while there are plenty of honest sellers, we all know of someone who has had a bad experience. But - the laws are more protective of buyers here (and vets are more careful as well). So you do have greater risk going to Europe, unless you really know what you are doing. And I am sure you are one that has well established connections in Europe, which gives you a different buying experience.[/QUOTE]

As anywhere, when you go in Europe, you need to know people and get references. Their is not more dishonnest sellers, breeders, brokers or whatever. Same with veterinarians. Some of the best veterinary hospitals in the world are found in Europe and those institutions will not risk their reputation to allow an old german breeder to sell an unsound horse to a naive american. It is about choosing the right people to make the verifications.

The problem is that people want to buy quality, but save as much money as possible. If you shop only on the internet, and are willing to buy on a short video and a couple of good pictures, it is clear that you are taking a risk, either here or in Europe. If you are serious in your process, you will travel to see horses in person and you will be able to make an idea for yourself. If you do not have experience in shopping young prospect, get the help of trusted professionnals.

What I have found however is that, even though many breeders are not doing it in bad faith, they see their products as way better than they are. So they are sold as top prospect when they are to often, as best, honnest average amy horses. I strongly believe in NA breeding. However, I often see as a problem the fact that breeders seem to overevaluate the quality of their horses. A top breeder in Europe wich produces 40 foals in a year, he will be able to tell you he may have 1 or 2 exceptional foals, 8 very good, 20 correct and 10 bad foals. All of those foals will be from at least decent dame lines. In NA, too often you will ask 10 breeders with 4 foals each about the quality of their foals, and they will all have 3 exceptional foals and 1 good. Not that they are not good or that they are dishonnest, but I think we, in NA, have difficulty evaluating the real quality of what we have.

As for the prices of horses, all the reason listed above probably justify the difference in asking prices. Some horses of lower value will be more expensive here than in Europe. As mentionned above, you must take all other expenses involved before coming to a conclusion (shipping, vet checks, travelling to see horses, quarantine etc…). On the higher end of the price range however, I found that the prices are generally quite similar here and there. The best horses are expensive everywhere. The difference is that, because Europeens produce so much more horses in a year so, necessarly, they have way more good horses, and way more not so good horses. Their philosophy is to try to get the best from their good horses because they know the market is good for them. As for their horses that are not as good, they will try to sell rapidly to limit the investment they put in them. Here, people produce less horses, and the philosophy seems more like trying to make money, or at least cover the costs, on all the horses. This results in the prices of average horses to go up to cover the costs.

1 Like

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8421236]
Just shopping a bit for the next prospect and noticing again, how few purpose bred, jumper/event horses are available in the US. I would love to stay on this side of the pond but there seem to be only a handful of 4-5 year olds, showing good jumping form, with a decent start under saddle. If I want a purpose bred horse, and not an OTTB, the US seems to have much fewer than the much smaller countries in Europe. There are one or two here and there, and all else being equal (training level, perceived talent, pedigree), the US prospects are more $$$, even after import fees.

Why is it more expensive to produce a young horse here as compared to Europe? It can’t be land or feed prices…

I missed that paragraph…[/QUOTE]

Have you looked on FB for the discipline you want? I posted on Dressage Horses For Sale that I was ISO a horse with dressage potential. I was inundated with replies. Seriously, I was digging my way through message after message. I ended up buying an incredible 4 year old who is exceeding my wildest dreams. He was not actually listed on Dressage Horses for Sale, but someone read on that site that I was looking, and sent me the video.

I know there are similar pages for jumpers and possibly hunters.

The horses are out there – but they are not easy to find until you ask the right questions in the right place.

Yes…it takes time and patience to get youngsters going nicely…and time is money. We spend a lot of time with our youngsters starting when they are born…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJdypFOBC5A

A friend and I have noticed posts on Facebook for buyers looking for upper level prospects with impossibly skimpy budgets. We’ve noticed that some buyers have “magical thinking” - they know the quality they want but do not understand that everyone wants that same unicorn.

It might be difficult to find the quality you seek because of your budget. I buy too and know that sometimes I have to buy very young, completely feral, or in utero because I wouldn’t be able to afford the same horse at 4 or 5.

Except for the 2 I’ve selfishly held back for ourselves, all ours are sold in utero and the European buyers are spending exactly the same amount as American buyers.

We have a very nice 2012 17h Selle Français gelding (jumper/event bred by Jaguar Mail), and a weanling that is the full sister to his dam. Both for sale.

Ironically, we hail from the H/J show world…many there are interested in our not-for-sale (currently jumping 1.15) mare who is the dam of the 3 yo, but the young gelding and for sure the weanling are not yet on their radar. Most are still looking for that ready made show horse.

There has been some movement recently toward an interest in young horse development in the US, but most typically, buyers still want the ready-made show horse. Making your own requires a very different mindset, but it’s a very rewarding journey. Hopefully more breeders/young horse developers will find a way to make it pay as well.

[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;8422033]

Also, they have a very strict breeding standard in Europe. Here, everyone thinks their horse is good enough.
.[/QUOTE]

Oh please. Have you been to Europe? There are PLENTY of backyard, poor specimen horses being bred in Europe too.

But carry on.

OP, I also think you are searching for too old a horse. By the time they are 4 or 5 here they are already privately owned/competed… I think you’d have better luck looking for a 2-3 year old.

[QUOTE=ladyj79;8423048]
EU try 20, not 200. You can go to training shows every day of the week, different ones, for ten bucks a round. You can show national shows every weekend, maybe 20-40 a round, he’ll you can do multiple national shows in a weekend. Or you could do an international/FEI show many weeks without travelling too far between holland/belgium/germany/France. It is way cheaper to get show exposure here.

Also it can’t be underscored enough, as someone pointed out the number of qhs in the us, Europeans simply breed way, way more wbs than north America. Yes the top will still command top dollar, but there’s so many more that supply and demand is very much in effect tempering prices.[/QUOTE]

It´s getting more expensive here though. 20 USD, that´s what you pay per class jumping under 1.00 in a backyard competition. If you´re doing 1.30-1.40 it´s more likely to be 100USD/class. One used to be able to do a 1.30 at around 45USd a few years ago. Still a lot cheaper than US also because there´s most of the time no boarding fees (the competitions are pretty close to home).