Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=cordial;6518969]
Well said Gringo, but I am sure your post will not be read with favor on this forum!
I have been watching the current Celebration, and would agree about your opinion of how the horses look as compared to other years![/QUOTE]

Assuming that this true, is it real or is it Memorex?

I’ve seen the industry “tap dance” on three other occasions. In those cases it was “business as usual” within 24 months. While this one is more taratella than soft shoe I’ll reserve judgement for at least 24 months.

I still believe that you cannot create the Big Lick gait without inflicting short and long term injury on the horse. A winning gait requires soring.

G.

[Fairfax]

[QUOTE=cordial;6518969]
Well said Gringo, but I am sure your post will not be read with favor on this forum!
I have been watching the current Celebration, and would agree about your opinion of how the horses look as compared to other years![/QUOTE]

This is an interesting thread…when soring stops what will be attacked next? This is the major problem…a noble cause becomes an agenda and success becomes arrogance.

“any horse wearing a package is abused”
“will bash until ALL performance classes eliminated”…I am sure they mean BL as performance but the next step will be any performance class unless approved by the new “bullies” on the block.

"Not really happy:…I would think the person should be very happy for every TWH that is spared soring…but that self definition of “abuse” now is defined by Walk In The Woods

Bengal who seems to be AWOL had no problem if ALL training devices were eliminated…didn’t matter for TWH or ANY HORSE.

[sunridge1]

That would be all action training devices. If they are bred for motion they shouldn’t need it. But you can’t get that motion without the action devices?

If the BL people want us to believe they aren’t leg soring, get rid of the chains. EVERYONE knows those action devices won’t do any good if they have no natural afinity, right?

Cynical me thinks if they are indeed moving differently they’ve probably gone to pressure shoeing only. TWH as a rule are not built to have the front end action of an ASB or DHH.

[WalkInTheWoods]

Self definition ? It is also the stand taken by the AAEP and AVMA and and numerous other groups (Eliminate the stacks and action devices of BL perfomance horses)

And should i be happy for the horses eliminated from showing in a class at Celebration ? Will it end their BL career ? Or just be the usual 2 week naughty boy go to the corner punishment ? Or will the horse be allowed to enter another class and try to pass ? And why would i be happy when it is proven that a horse has been abused and there is no guarantee the abuse will end ? Does a HPA ticket end the abuse or does the horse get shuffled to another trainer ?

[QUOTE=Fairfax;6519196]
"Not really happy:…I would think the person should be very happy for every TWH that is spared soring…but that self definition of “abuse” now is defined by Walk In The Woods[/QUOTE]

[cordial]

[QUOTE=Guilherme;6519190]
Assuming that this true, is it real or is it Memorex?

I’ve seen the industry “tap dance” on three other occasions. In those cases it was “business as usual” within 24 months. While this one is more taratella than soft shoe I’ll reserve judgement for at least 24 months.

I still believe that you cannot create the Big Lick gait without inflicting short and long term injury on the horse. A winning gait requires soring.

G.[/QUOTE]

I will not agrue with you , but there are Big Lick horses that are totally sound that do a Big Lick. I know as we have one.

[hurleycane]

[QUOTE=cordial;6519266]
I will not agrue with you , but there are Big Lick horses that are totally sound that do a Big Lick. I know as we have one.[/QUOTE]

Then show us what you got.

[cordial]

[QUOTE=hurleycane;6519272]
Then show us what you got.[/QUOTE]

Are you questioning my statement? I don’t know how to post pictures, but will try and find somebody to do it for me. Thanks for your kind comments.

[Rbow]

@Fairfax;6519196

“This is the major problem…a noble cause becomes and agenda…”

Soring is a crime. The TWH industry could have stopped it at any time and has not.

For over 40 years the industry has proven it doesn’t care what the animals endure to perform a more exaggerated, artificial gait.

They’ve enabled soring and done nothing to create a “celebration” that might be less harmful to the horses.

The WGC and most prized breeders aren’t the horses that would best enhance the natural abilities listed on the breed’s own website.

Many (like the AVMA/AAEP) believe the pads/action devices cause damage themselves and also feel they should be prohibited.

Many, like you, are afraid to take a stand because they fear if they do, they’ll lose the ability to use their own training devices.

That’s the major problem.

In my opinion, the sooner the Big Lick is eliminated the better off the horse industry will be. Especially the TWH.

[hurleycane]

[QUOTE=cordial;6519291]
Are you questioning my statement? I don’t know how to post pictures, but will try and find somebody to do it for me. Thanks for your kind comments.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I am questioning your statement. Not your voracity mind you - but questioning whether it is a fact that he is sound and moves sound. My guess is he is careful about how he moves and you are careful not to let him romp and play much.

I mean it would be nice to see that you indeed have a sound moving horse. In fact it would be a thrill to see one move and live nice and comfortably in these chains and stacks. But I doubt I will see this.

I have seen one or two carry a stack as if they were unencumbered by it - but only on a straight line and only for a short while could they move much at all. They poop out pretty quick in them - which is why there is all that stopping on the rail in the middle of the class stuff.

I am also not trying to be unkind. Just real. Real as in I do believe that many good people have come to accept a stack as good and reasonable horsemanship.

But the sad but true fact persists that the stack and the chain and the gait they produce are cruel.

[Malda]

I agree with everything hurleycane says. The pads, stacks and chains need to go. Cordial, how long in each session can you ride your sound horse in his package?

[QUOTE=hurleycane;6519333]
Yes, I am questioning your statement. Not your voracity mind you - but questioning whether it is a fact that he is sound and moves sound. My guess is he is careful about how he moves and you are careful not to let him romp and play much.

I mean it would be nice to see that you indeed have a sound moving horse. In fact it would be a thrill to see one move and live nice and comfortably in these chains and stacks. But I doubt I will see this.

I have seen one or two carry a stack as if they were unencumbered by it - but only on a straight line and only for a short while could they move much at all. They poop out pretty quick in them - which is why there is all that stopping on the rail in the middle of the class stuff.

I am also not trying to be unkind. Just real. Real as in I do believe that many good people have come to accept a stack as good and reasonable horsemanship.

But the sad but true fact persists that the stack and the chain and the gait they produce are cruel.[/QUOTE]

[Graymaresrule]

[QUOTE=cordial;6519291]
Are you questioning my statement? I don’t know how to post pictures, but will try and find somebody to do it for me. Thanks for your kind comments.[/QUOTE]

You can download a program called Picasa from Google that will let you post pics and videos on line. It’s free. Then you can post a link here.

There are other free services as well

[aarpaso]

Any human with half a brain can see that the Big Lick is not natural its not what the TWH was born to do.

the running walk was/ is natrual a tru square evenly timed four-beat gait with a nice head nod and good hind action.

not the hi lift butt draggin of the abused BL,which can not be gotten with out soring,stacks and the questionable packages.

can you buy a X bl horse an take it down from stacks and get a hi ended but dragging walker maybe,but that does not erase the fact that that horse was abused in training,that way of going became ingrained,not natural. its tru way of going has been compromised by the abuse that was inflicked upon it.

the actions done BY those who own and ride train and bred for the BIG LICK.are cruel inhuman people who should be treated as what they are abusers,and held to the HIGHEST Letter of the LAW.

I agree with the AVMA AAEP period.

[Rbow]

[QUOTE=cordial;6519291]
Are you questioning my statement? I don’t know how to post pictures, but will try and find somebody to do it for me. Thanks for your kind comments.[/QUOTE]

Let’s keep this NOT personal.

Cordial, I believe you, you like your horse and don’t think he’s had a problem with pads. OK. Don’t post his videos…someone will find something they think is wrong. Use someone else’s horse to make a point.

[Fairfax]

How many DQ’s occured at Celebration this year? What was the attendance? What were the entry numbers in BL and also “standard” performance classes?
Was anyone charged with soring or transporting a sore horse to a show?

HSUS does NOT have these numbers. Keith Dane is not yet responding to any emails or questions.

[aarpaso]

FF u need to contact SHOW INC they are the HIO. or maybe David Howard. maybe Dr. Mullins.(Mullins Equine Vet Service)

[katarine]

The show is still going on. The ‘big nights’ are next weekend.

the ‘For the TWH’ blog is a good source of data.

[aarpaso]

Doesn’t the Big Lick begin on wed nite with the WGC Saturday nite.

that copperfield horse isn’t it a name changed Horse? GEN Magic Prescription or somthing like that.

[aarpaso]

i was chattin with a Medical friend of mine tonight,the subject was how to prove that stacks and pkges cause harm.

well it seems someone has gotten a way to prove it, you take a 4yr old flat shod do MRI s on both forelegs encluding hoof.than take a 4 yr old stacked and pkged. now these horse have been ridden this way for two yrs and there is a difference. now could this be the reason the BLers are worried. that harm is bein done to the tendons and legiments.

WOW now wouldn’t that put the crap in their mess kits.

one can only hope.

[sunridge1]

I’ve recently seen on line the hoof changes of a horse that was road foundered.The changes and damages were documented even after death. Very interesting.http://www.farrierart.com/road_founder.html

I’ve seen lots of leg wavers with feet that look just like this, jamming, dishing etc.

Another, it’s not a horse show but a human show.

[walknsound]

Scot MacGregor
Why Do I Need To Sponsor? Here are a few things to think about: What kind of action produces hip joints that pop violently in pain every step on a three year old. How about a 30 year old that still shakes when you touch her and she has been gently cared for since she was three. Horses that are put down for extreme pain from arthritis at 8 or a three year old that has no cartilage left in his hocks. Three year olds with no bars and absolutely no sensation left in their mouths. Blown disks in horse’s necks from beatings and backs from being ridden at 15 months old. Founder in both front feet being considered good and intended. These are normal conditions found in padded horses that had as little training as 6 months. We have no idea what is really happening to these innocent horses. Stop spending the money supporting this and help the few that are doing it right, please! Talk to each other and you will create a list of good people that you can trust. It either ends now because we have media attention and public awareness or go totally with NWHA and replace them. Use the NWHA - USEF backed registry and own a National Walking Horse and walk away. Abuse is being protected through huge amounts of money being spent. Take away the money and end the propaganda then people will see reality. You all did so well with informing the sponsors of the Celebration and making them aware of the reality of this industry! 80% of all padded horses are now trained in middle TN. Half the barns in Shelbyville are standing empty and most of the rest are housing multiple trainers to group expense. The padded industry had to hire the BP Oil promotional firm that talked them out of trouble on the gulf coast during the oil spill. How much did that cost? The Celebration has no audience left - 1/4 full max on the weekend. Just keep going a little longer. Nobody invests in a sinking ship and all padded associations including Breeders are very close to bankruptcy. Almost there. NWHA has more stalls reserved right now for their National Championships than the last two years. They have had the second largest TWH show in the country for the last seven years. Help them! Come, Show and Please Sponsor even if it is just a small amount. Your sponsorship helps an organization that TWHBEA is so afraid of it spent 1.2 MILLION DOLARS trying to destroy it. NWHA is our future and will be a part of the solution. I believe this with my whole heart. That is how you fight! That is how you WILL make a difference! I gave $500 this year and I didn’t have it to give. What can you do to help? This one time, Make It Count! What would happen if we could say the largest TWH show in the country was flat shod?
· 2 hours ago near Murfreesboro, TN