Standing ovation Hurleycane!!!
There is no rhyme or reason why a show horse horse that loves attention, despite the terrible cost of it, should be thrown out into a pasture and ignored. Why not transition him to flat shod classes? He’ll learn to move in a more relaxed manner and his old joints and feet will have time to heal.
I just recently rescued a Morgan mare that was saddleseat trained. In the arena, she wants to fly around and throw her legs out. I simply stop her and rub her neck until she relaxes before moving her out again. She is learning to relax in an arena and she LIKES it! We are taking a break from the arena for awhile because she’s discovered how marvelous trial rides are. It didn’t take long to transition her to a relaxed trail horse. You don’t have to IGNORE you horse just because you aren’t showing him. These creatures thrive on attention. With sufficient attention, he’ll adjust pretty dang well to not being in pain.
Please, please, whatever you do, don’t switch your desperate need for attention to some young girl relative and start in on child pageants. I swear it’s the same mentality as a TWHs. And those parents say, “But our daughter just LOVES to show!”. No, young children, like certain personable breeds of horse, love to please. Children are born that way and we have bred horses to be that way. That doesn’t give you the right to take advantage of the situation. Even a beaten dog will lick his abusive owner’s face. It doesn’t make the abuse right.
[QUOTE=cordial;6812285]
I am fully aware of what the AVMA (I have a daughte who is a graduate of Vet school),AAEP,USDA,nad Usef stand for. I couldn’t agree more with them on the position they take, and I am all for the clean, sound horse, so what is your problem with me. I have clean, sound unabused horses, sowhat is your “beef” with me??? HUH[/QUOTE]
This has been answered before. The issue is a lot of people think stacks and huge pads damage the horse and are therefore abusive. There is no doubt that the footwear of the performance horse throws them off balance, causes them to move awkwardly and is damaging to the structure of the legs.
Thanks for the nod - I love a good head nod - no matter the species - Right? MOF folks who can not understand the nod - just have never been right on the right horse.
As for continuing on this thread - I see it as a place to lend a voice, ask a question and keep the purpose where it belongs. And many have made a lot of good thoughtful posts, discussed some great issues and well - kept the issue where it belongs.
ANd that is right here in front of all of us.
I really do not believe those who are in deep with acceptance of the stacking chaining etc will ever change their acceptance of it. To do so would be too painful. Like in cordial’s case it sounds like it would cause a rift in her spousal ease. At least that is what her last post led me to believe. To publicly speak her new awareness and openly accept that the stacking was inherently wrong or to openly say the only way to get that founder crawl would be to stack and chain or sore - well, to do that she may have had a much harder time enjoying all the other perks of her relationship with her spouse. KNow what I mean?
SO it was easier for her to come here and speak against her own true beliefs and try to buttress up her honey’s dying (and wrong) past time with words like his horse was an ambassador etc.
She makes sense now. I understand why she was so conflicted in her remarks - and why she tried to label folks haters etc. It was easier for her to straddle the fence.
Same might go for the folks in SHelbyville who know better (the McConnell tape) but still try and wave their stacked horse signs. To put that stacked sign down would mean they are gonna have to re-evaluate some relationships - family, friend, trainer, business partner etc. And they might just lose some relationships.
But it does not excuse their behavior - they enabled this awful mess and in doing so are a party to it.
Maybe it it time for all the cordial spouses to do the right thing - and that would be to release their horses, spouses, family, friends and business relationships from the burden those stacks and chains represent. Maybe they could just take a little responsibility for their actions and put that trash in the garbage bin and bring this sad history of abuse to an end.
Yea Boy! Just get that crap out of the way of the TWH, USDA and horseman everywhere and simply walk-on and enjoy this great horse, free and unencumbered.
[QUOTE=hurleycane;6814941]
Thanks for the nod - I love a good head nod - no matter the species - Right? MOF folks who can not understand the nod - just have never been right on the right horse.
As for continuing on this thread - I see it as a place to lend a voice, ask a question and keep the purpose where it belongs. And many have made a lot of good thoughtful posts, discussed some great issues and well - kept the issue where it belongs.
ANd that is right here in front of all of us.
I really do not believe those who are in deep with acceptance of the stacking chaining etc will ever change their acceptance of it. To do so would be too painful. Like in cordial’s case it sounds like it would cause a rift in her spousal ease. At least that is what her last post led me to believe. To publicly speak her new awareness and openly accept that the stacking was inherently wrong or to openly say the only way to get that founder crawl would be to stack and chain or sore - well, to do that she may have had a much harder time enjoying all the other perks of her relationship with her spouse. KNow what I mean?
SO it was easier for her to come here and speak against her own true beliefs and try to buttress up her honey’s dying (and wrong) past time with words like his horse was an ambassador etc.
She makes sense now. I understand why she was so conflicted in her remarks - and why she tried to label folks haters etc. It was easier for her to straddle the fence.
Same might go for the folks in SHelbyville who know better (the McConnell tape) but still try and wave their stacked horse signs. To put that stacked sign down would mean they are gonna have to re-evaluate some relationships - family, friend, trainer, business partner etc. And they might just lose some relationships.
But it does not excuse their behavior - they enabled this awful mess and in doing so are a party to it.
Maybe it it time for all the cordial spouses to do the right thing - and that would be to release their horses, spouses, family, friends and business relationships from the burden those stacks and chains represent. Maybe they could just take a little responsibility for their actions and put that trash in the garbage bin and bring this sad history of abuse to an end.
Yea Boy! Just get that crap out of the way of the TWH, USDA and horseman everywhere and simply walk-on and enjoy this great horse, free and unencumbered.[/QUOTE]
OMG, are you kidding me, Hurleycane…I love padded horses as much as my husband , but it is too much of a hassle to own one anymore…let’s say it is not politically “correct”.
And our padded gelding is not going to be thrown out into a pasture and forgotten…are you nuts??? He will still be stalled and taken out gradually , an hour at a time and always be brought in at night. He is too old to try flat-shod and needs to be a horse, and enjoy the rest of his life.Honest to God, no matter what I say you always twist it to a whole new meaning., because you have a real flair for friction.
Believe you me, if my husband wanted amother padded horse, I would be all for it, and if I wanted one, he would support me in that wish, but we have no desire to go in that direction again. I’ve been married for 50 years, and he and I are generally on the same page with each other in most things in life. My God, I can’t believe how you twisted my last post. Are you kidding me??? As you probably have figured out, my husband and I are not " spring chickens", but we still ride often, and show most week-ends during show season.My husband teaches skiing in the state of New York most week-ends in the winter. Yes, We are so far pretty lucky , as we are both very active and in good health. I believe you once stated that you were too old to ride anymore…come on and cowboy up…you live once, and if you do it right, once is enough.
If the issue is where it belongs, then what the Hell are you doing in Cordial’s bedroom??
Good Lord you’ve jumped the shark.
Can this nonsense please just end already?!? Cordial said shes done so cant that be it about her? Most Everyone is still talking about her and her stacked horse, then she comes back in yet another pro stacked post…
Please, can we get off of that subject?
So on another subject…
Does anybody know whatever happened in the Jackie Mcconnell case? Maybe I missed something, but I haven’t heard anything about it in while.
[QUOTE=Thoro;6816239]
Can this nonsense please just end already?!? Cordial said shes done so cant that be it about her? Most Everyone is still talking about her and her stacked horse, then she comes back in yet another pro stacked post…
Please, can we get off of that subject?
So on another subject…
Does anybody know whatever happened in the Jackie Mcconnell case? Maybe I missed something, but I haven’t heard anything about it in while.[/QUOTE]
Like the cat, Cordial keeps coming back. And she makes the same claims in the same language. And doesn’t answer substantive questions. Her presence or absence neither adds to nor subtracts from the discussion.
Soring is not done out of some motivation to cause gratuitous pain.* It’s done to get a certain motion. Stacks and other action devices are used for the same purpose. When combined you bet a really big change in equine motion. That’s what is being sought. That change in equine motion, IMO, causes long term and short term injury to the horse. So if you do away with one (either one) you’ve only done half the job. That’s why the actions of the various professional groups are very important (and very telling).
There are NO university level studies to support my opinion. It was formed after re-habbing several former Big Lick horses. It was supported as I learned more about equine movement and how the devices (particularly the stacks) alter that movement. Cordial says I’m wrong. She has made multiple, unsupported claims. So, who’s right? Make your own choice.
Soring is unlawful, stacks (and other “action devices”) are not. IMO opinion this is an unsatisfactory situation. The HPA should be amended to consign the stacks (and other action devices) to the dustbin of history. As with all things, YMMV.
G.
*What you saw in the McConnell video was rank stupidity. I’m not even sure what the goal of the “training” was. That’s damn sure not how you “steward” a horse. After watching it my first inclination was to say “here’s your sign.” It does open a window, however, into a world that is usually shrouded in darkness.
The McConnell mess was postponed again until late March.
[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6816383]
The McConnell mess was postponed again until late March.[/QUOTE]
Again?! Geez!
[QUOTE=Guilherme;6816356]
Like the cat, Cordial keeps coming back. And she makes the same claims in the same language. And doesn’t answer substantive questions. Her presence or absence neither adds to nor subtracts from the discussion.
Soring is not done out of some motivation to cause gratuitous pain.* It’s done to get a certain motion. Stacks and other action devices are used for the same purpose. When combined you bet a really big change in equine motion. That’s what is being sought. That change in equine motion, IMO, causes long term and short term injury to the horse. So if you do away with one (either one) you’ve only done half the job. That’s why the actions of the various professional groups are very important (and very telling).
There are NO university level studies to support my opinion. It was formed after re-habbing several former Big Lick horses. It was supported as I learned more about equine movement and how the devices (particularly the stacks) alter that movement. Cordial says I’m wrong. She has made multiple, unsupported claims. So, who’s right? Make your own choice.
Soring is unlawful, stacks (and other “action devices”) are not. IMO opinion this is an unsatisfactory situation. The HPA should be amended to consign the stacks (and other action devices) to the dustbin of history. As with all things, YMMV.
G.
What you saw in the McConnell video was rank stupidity. I’m not even sure what the goal of the “training” was. That’s damn sure not how you “steward” a horse. After watching it my first inclination was to say “here’s your sign.” It does open a window, however, into a world that is usually shrouded in darkness.[/QUOTE]
I’m totally not saying I agrre with cordial, That’s not at all what I meant. I’m against stacks, chains, soring, big lickers, the whole deal! But I realize after repeatedly asking her why she stacks her horse if she supports avma, and never getting a real answer - because she wont admit stacks are cruel -that shes not worth wasting time on, she refuses to take off her rose tinted glasses and just comes on to start fights.
I am DONE with cordial
- actually done, not saying it, what? three times? like her;)
why haven’t we seen any photos of Cordial’s 22 yr old? Is it because his ankles are ruined and the damage would be clearly obvious?
I can’t wait for his retirement when his stacks will be removed so he can “…just be a horse…” and enjoy turn out and moving freely. If he can…
Turns out that the Smoky Mountains TWH Sale has also be canceled! Apparently this sale is bigger than the After Christmas one. The horses are safe again.
“The Smoky Mountain Sale was recently informed by the USDA of new livestock sale regulations. Due to the complexity of these regulations and the time constraints we will not be able to have the February 2013 sale. We apologize for any inconvenience. We would like to thank all of our customers for their business.” http://www.smokymountainsales.com/
[QUOTE=walknsound;6821696]
Turns out that the Smoky Mountains TWH Sale has also be canceled! Apparently this sale is bigger than the After Christmas one. The horses are safe again.
“The Smoky Mountain Sale was recently informed by the USDA of new livestock sale regulations. Due to the complexity of these regulations and the time constraints we will not be able to have the February 2013 sale. We apologize for any inconvenience. We would like to thank all of our customers for their business.” http://www.smokymountainsales.com/[/QUOTE]
I wonder what complexities they are referring to… If no HIO - I thought their only obligation was to let USDA inspectors on property - NO?
On my way home I saw a padded up horse being ridden. It is a road I take all the time. Barn is all shut up to keep the cold, sun, etc out. But today, it was very spring like out.
It is a little barn, and in typical fashion you see very few if any horses out anywhere, much less them being RIDDEN where prying eyes can see. There are no signs saying anything about the barn. But yet they are still doing the pads. Younger guy was up riding. He was of course leaning forward in “the position”.
Saw a very dark sorrel horse, doing the padded thing. Tail looked like it was braided up, taped with dark tape(?) and all you saw was the bone sticking out.
So somebody has not yet given up on the padded horse idea and making money. A tiny barn, trying to make a name for themselves - still.
[QUOTE=rmh_rider;6821914]
On my way home I saw a padded up horse being ridden. It is a road I take all the time. Barn is all shut up to keep the cold, sun, etc out. But today, it was very spring like out.
It is a little barn, and in typical fashion you see very few if any horses out anywhere, much less them being RIDDEN where prying eyes can see. There are no signs saying anything about the barn. But yet they are still doing the pads. Younger guy was up riding. He was of course leaning forward in “the position”.
Saw a very dark sorrel horse, doing the padded thing. Tail looked like it was braided up, taped with dark tape(?) and all you saw was the bone sticking out.
So somebody has not yet given up on the padded horse idea and making money. A tiny barn, trying to make a name for themselves - still.[/QUOTE]
You saw all of this from the road? Even the tail taped with DARK tape? All you saw was the bone sticking out?
Let me try and understand this. Driving by…even at 30 MPH or even a little slower…keeping your eyes on the road…driving by a farm where you have never seen horses worked before, so you were not ready for that visual opportunity, but you saw detail?
With those talents you need to become both a judge AND an inspector.
Oh geez. Go away Fairfax. Your potstirring is not welcome here. Did you get tired of getting beat up on other threads ?
The horse was less than 50’ from the road edge, but within their fenced area. Very VERY rural area. I know this barn. I drive on that road VERY VERY frequently 2-3 times a day to be exact. Speed limit is 55 I was driving 45-50. Not hard to spot. 2 lane road, WIDE open to see everything around. No traffic. Hey when you live in a rural area you look at the livestock in the pastures, or at least I do. It is a rare event when you see a horse outside of this barn being ridden, much less turned out. They never turn those horses out. Sad to see in the summer horse heads sticking out of little tiny windows. Those windows are boarded up at the moment.
I have been driving by there for the past 16 years.
Sure I would love to be a judge. AND an inspector.
Dark sorrel, dark tail. Tail sticking out looked like a stick sticking out. IOW no tail hair was seen flying in the breeze. The horse did not have a flax mane and tail.
Also the guy had on a BRIGHT yellow shirt, dark ball cap, white man. Not a fat guy - ha ha.
From my endurance riding background of 20+ years, I pay really close attention to things and details, especially to horses.
So was this your horse then? You riding? Your property? :+p
Welcome to you too…Not against what you are trying to do …just trying to keep the message focused. Guess you don’t like anyone who has any other view. Explains why most don’t even bother to post except for the same old same old
Fairfax, I could get that much detail, driving by a horse & rider in my travels.
Why do you doubt rmh_rider?
