My responses are getting out of order to your posts - so for clarity I will say there are many nice moving flat shod TWH - you should get you one FF. Next time you are in Tennessee or Kentucky - let someone here know and they will hook you up with a nice one.
okay…please enlighten me. In Arizona the best they can muster is a couple of entries for the TWH division… California, Washington , Oregon the same. Sadly, in Canada they are known as the hillbilly horse as individuals will actually let them roll in the hitching ring…slap a saddle back on them and put them in a class…limited professionalism
I saw the same philosophy with flat shod in Nashville, Shelby and a couple of other shows…the BL garner attention because they are bright, well turned out and LOOK like they belong in the show ring. That is only MY observation knowing next to nothing about the breed. I DO know about presentation as I have spent my life showing dogs and horses.
Rosemary Jordan (Alberta) bred some nice movers I rode in the 80’s,on their farm. Family owned a Merry Boy or Merry Go Boy (something like that son). He was, according to the grandfather (when alive) the best to ride to check on cows…but couldn’t work with them…so he rode the TWH and the cowboys rode the utility steeldust and Arab/TB crosses…helped his back.
Well - more than a few times folks have pointed out some very nice moving TWH. ANd I know I have directed you to the NWHA venue. But what is keeping you on the same groove as I read it may just be your limited experience with what you call a hillbillly Canadian venue and/or unfamiliarity with the TWH.
But if you want to expand these limits - I will say they shine up and polish well as any breed - with or without set tails or high stepping feet. And yes - not all will show in a true well timed running walk - but IMO most often that is rider error.
Showing a gait is much much more complex in the gaited land than in the multigaited land of the saddlebred. As long as it is not trot or pace or canter - and it can go fast and then slow down with a high step it will be acceptable in a saddlebred show. In a TWH or other “smooth gait only show” (iow no trot) the criteria to be judged is much much more stringent.
SO if you venture over to a real TWH barn - they will train your eye a little more and you will be a little broader in your thinking and appreciation of the gait and how it is or is not achieved and nuanced.
You may find as others have the flat shod TWH is very cool and full of grand potentials without the stack, spurs, chains etc etc etc. And the flat shod TWH has a great and vocal following. No need for the stacked crowd to come over. the camp draws its own enthusiasts.
On that same note - I doubt the other saddleseat divisions will draw the stacked crowd and their $$ to them. You see - IMO - the other high stepping divisions were very careful not to go to the extreme that encumbers the horses ability to move with exuberance, know what I mean??? Well if not - just rewind some of the stacked videos and look at the lack of ride in the rider.
I am so confused.
Do we all agree, well, with the obvious exception of Cordial, that soring TWH’s for BL shows is bad?
If the flat shod shows aren’t good enough, find something else to do that doesn’t physically harm the horse. It’s not that complicated. Trail ride, fer crying out loud! 
[QUOTE=Fairfax;6826967]
Mary… dumb afghans…sorry…have many CD’s and lure champions to dispute that. IF you knew about the breed you would understand they are a sight hound…they see a cat two blocks away…and they focus on it FOR THE KILL…therefore they do NOT listen and comeback unless they have been specifically trained with in CD etc (Utility) to do so.
I did not mention Kalu breeding. I happen to like the line due to the talent…you can tell a trainer not worth his/her salt…first words…I Hate Kalu lines…they are tough and they do think and they can do what is asked…but they require a true trainer.
I expect the same occurs in the TWH…there are talented lines the trainer have discouraged as they take longer and won’t take crap.
I have a wonderful Sultan line stallion who has a great thinking process as do his offspring so one should go individual by individual. I do know what I am talking about as everything I posted…in reference to you…is what you have stated on TROT over the years. YOU complained your Dad’s lines could not win…and that the breed and the breeders were wrong in not breeding OTHER types.
With the TWH …I am starting to underestand that pacey has become a problem against the true movement…there will be breeders who still have that “old time correct movement” so maybe it is time for the new enthusiast to seek out those breeders…acquire some horses…
If, as some have claimed…there are NO MORE true movers…then I guess the breed is doomed…but I bet that is not the case.[/QUOTE]
Whenever did I type those words? You completely manipulated it so the whole statement is false. Just as you do with everything. They did win you maroon. lol What they are NOT is user friendly, like Kalu, just not as ugly headed. They are smart, tough, correct, X-factor lines galore, VERY go forward, go through fire and never quit. Not for the faint of heart by any means.
Sorry for the derail guys.
double
sunridge1 I LOVE the way you describe the saddlebred. Gives me goosebumps!!!
blushes Thanks Hurley. It is what they are to me. I’m just plain not a fan of the dumbed down modern versions.
Lack of substance with conformational faults I couldn’t in good conscience reproduce. Yes they can be prettier and easier to handle but they don’t hold muster when for real $hit hits the fan. I prefer the type the Generals rode in the Civil War, they keep us both out trouble instead of making it, on the trail, thank you very much.
Which coincides with all the other breed show rings. I’m not a fad based person about anything, fashion, horses, dogs. What I’ve seen regarding my beloved TWH’s, ASB’s and German Shepherd Dogs in the name of show over the last 30 years has been shameful!
My TWH that I have now is pacey. He racks most of the time. Doesn’t really matter to me I love is easy personality and his smooth rack. I can coax him into a true running walk but you know what? It is very taxing on him psychically. He simply is NOT built to do that gait. Long backed, and a bit sickle hocked his body style is worlds away from my Merry Go Boy grandson. Where that horse couldn’t do another gait. W-RW-C. And he could really move out in a RW. Not the very slow and very difficult for them running walk I’ve seen on the last 3 I’ve owned.
[QUOTE=microbovine;6827127]
I am so confused.
Do we all agree, well, with the obvious exception of Cordial, that soring TWH’s for BL shows is bad?
If the flat shod shows aren’t good enough, find something else to do that doesn’t physically harm the horse. It’s not that complicated. Trail ride, fer crying out loud! :D[/QUOTE]
I never said that soring is okay…where did I ever say that! Quite putting words in my mouth,[edit]. I have said that riding a SOUND padded horse is a thrill. Go back and read the posts, and then I want an apology…[edit]!
Dear Polite Drink: Sound and stacked/chained are not congruous.
[QUOTE=microbovine;6827127]
I am so confused.
Do we all agree, well, with the obvious exception of Cordial, that soring TWH’s for BL shows is bad?
If the flat shod shows aren’t good enough, find something else to do that doesn’t physically harm the horse. It’s not that complicated. Trail ride, fer crying out loud! :D[/QUOTE]
To the best of my knowledge Cordial has never condoned soring.
She does, mistakenly IMO, believe that the process of “building up” a horse and maintaining it on pads/stacks is not harmful.
Many people, myself included, believe that the process does produce long and short term injury. This is particularly true with young horses who can be in “colt packages” as early as 12 months of age.
G.
Very informative . Thank you. I will check them out when I travel to Kentucky.
[QUOTE=cordial;6827401]
I never said that soring is okay…where did I ever say that! Quite putting words in my mouth, [edit]. I have said that riding a SOUND padded horse is a thrill. Go back and read the posts, and then I want an apology…[edit]![/QUOTE]
You think a horse on stacks is sound and happy and you are calling someone else [names]?
Mary…I haven’t. This is no different than the Julie thread (Izanalter) here on COTH where you stated you were taking one of her horses and others were trying to raise money to ship it to you. You also stated you had “no pot to pee in”
Someone else posted you shouldn’t take the horse if you had no money and couldn’t afford it…and then you AGAIN…changed your story and became defensive.
On TROT you did state you had given up Saddlebreds as your Dad’s lines did not win and you also made reference that NO ONE would breed to your stallion as they were old lines.
Therefore you gelded him (THAT was what you claimed…I have no proof you did or did NOT do that)
Chains alone, do NOT sore a horse…of any breed. Neither do rollers.
Chains, Rollers WITH a caustic substance will accelerate the soring but it needs that substance.
I will be happy to volunteer one of my Saddlebreds for any type of chain only test for soring. My horses go out into fields during the day and are in at night in stalls OR I also have 50 foot long paddocks by 20 feet wide with shelters for individual horses. I can not find any study that chains cause soring despite the urban legends presented. I have NO DOUBT they do cause soring when used inconjunction with a caustic product.
I will not apologize. You can make the description ‘cute’ by calling it stacking, but the concept is still the same. Do you not use chains?
In addition, I never called you any names. You are the one that should apologize.
So Fairfax, your Saddlebreds are living with chains on their legs. Just lovely.
And before someone sends me a nastygram via PM again, I live in Saddlebred country and do NOT think that keeping chains on these horses 24/7 except for when they show, is not a form of abuse.
[QUOTE=Fairfax;6827659]
Mary…I haven’t. This is no different than the Julie thread (Izanalter) here on COTH where you stated you were taking one of her horses and others were trying to raise money to ship it to you. You also stated you had “no pot to pee in”
Someone else posted you shouldn’t take the horse if you had no money and couldn’t afford it…and then you AGAIN…changed your story and became defensive.
On TROT you did state you had given up Saddlebreds as your Dad’s lines did not win and you also made reference that NO ONE would breed to your stallion as they were old lines.
Therefore you gelded him (THAT was what you claimed…I have no proof you did or did NOT do that)
Chains alone, do NOT sore a horse…of any breed. Neither do rollers.
Chains, Rollers WITH a caustic substance will accelerate the soring but it needs that substance.
I will be happy to volunteer one of my Saddlebreds for any type of chain only test for soring. My horses go out into fields during the day and are in at night in stalls OR I also have 50 foot long paddocks by 20 feet wide with shelters for individual horses. I can not find any study that chains cause soring despite the urban legends presented. I have NO DOUBT they do cause soring when used inconjunction with a caustic product.[/QUOTE]
Jeez FF you are so out there. The Stallion I gelded was NOT my Dad’s bloodlines. Harlem’s Hot dice was his sire you may have heard of him. Broadlands Beau and Chairman of Board on the bottom. He was just as modern as all the ASB’s out there. You either cannot read for comprehension or you are in the midst of dementia. My Dad’s bloodlines were for ME no one else. What I did say is no one wants the old Stonewall King breeding anymore which is a crime in my eyes, which BTW is Kalu’s sire line. Your mentors favorite cross on Charm. Jeez you don’t even belong in my league for bloodline knowledge.
Erm… no I’m not rich. Being rich does not equal competent or resourceful or handy or really much of anything. If that is your criteria for horse ownership I’d wager a guess that 90% of owners should not own horses including yourself.
So just knock it off. You’ve shown me who you are and I do believe you. A unreliable bloviating nuisance that can’t read.
Now back to TWH’s.
I wish your intense dislike and want to fight me on every thread would increase your reading and comprehension.
I stated IF SOME WANTED to use one of my saddlebreds for a study I would be pleased to do one here. NO WHERE does it state I have my horses in chains…I don’t need to…they have amazing action.
Trainers will use chains or rollers in a controlled training environment to get the horses to lift, use muscles i.e. resistance training and to let them know WHERE their feet are
I also clean out shelters and put the manure and shavings in long lines like a pinwheel design. I let it freeze in the round bull pen and then I lunge the horses so they lift while going over…the longer the line from the center…the longer their stride with lift. This is great for them as they can also stomp on it…no damage to legs nor hoof.
Chains or rollers are ONLY a tool to assist the process. They will NOT make a poor flexing non moving horse suddenly become world champion gaited material.
Mary…you have done this to me for the last time…yeah…right…
Here you go:
On TROT…there was a thread on the high cost of hay. Many were saying they would have to sell their horses or cut back severly as they couldn’t afford it.
You posted that you could no longer afford to keep your horses and you were going to sell them all
I sent you a very private pm stating I could help you a bit and if you would send me the name of your feed company and let me know if they took Visa or M/C I could help support them until the prices dropped.
You replied that was not necessary and you just got caught up in the thread. You had the money and feed to look after your horses.
THEN
Your post on the Izanalter update here on COTH
You know what? First of all I am so FING pissed off. Next. every. single. one of you are all great FING ‘talk the walk’. Here’s the deal folks. I’m just clawing my way out of devastating, nearly killed us both in ways no one could comprehend. We almost lost everything. I touched the edges of what IZ is going through, however she’s going through it all ALONE. Not many/any people knew how close I was to euthing a few horses for fear of their life beyond here with me.
So I’m here calling all you 'better off than me" do gooders to buck up. I’m taking one her horses for safe keeping that the rest of his quality of life will allow. I barely got a pot to piss in, she trusts ME with one of her babies.
Here was from a “fellow poster” with 23 likes
[I]Hope your sweary vent made you feel better.
Not everyone can afford to take on another horse, and certainly shouldn’t put their financial situation in peril in order to do so. Is that what “walkin’ the walk” is supposed to mean? Frankly rehoming with someone who “barely has a pot to piss in” doesn’t sound like the greatest idea in the world for either the horse or the new owner. [/I]
AND YOUR response…
Believe me when I say, none of my horses or IZ’s will leave my farm. They will be buried here. I have the means, the property, the experience and the integrity to make sure they NEVER end up in the pipeline. So no one needs to worry their pretty little heads about this coming back around. I’D bet my farm it would never happen.
You have knowledge regarding both pedigrees and conformation. I fail to see why you continually jump on every negative soring beating whipping etc thread and claim to have experienced it just in order to feel like you are part of a group.
Mary
I think you have so much more to offer and that instead of always tearing down, you could give encouragement and provide some solutions.
I previously stated MANY agree with you regarding the shoes on weanling futurity entries. That said…most go in with them freshly on and they are pulled immediately after. Right or Wrong…YOU have a right to your opinion and it was valid.
