So then the horses in the video, being ridden western, are really not flat-shod? Not trying to ignite a fire, just trying to understand the demarcation.
And does anyone know who the clinic attendees were? The two men who asked questions clearly had some kind of interaction with the presenter in advance to produce such smooth lobs. And I think I saw one of the female attendees getting up on the gray horse at the end.
Frugal the different HIOs have varied definitions of flat shod. You’d have to read some rule books to get a feel for the definitions.
Flat SHod is no stacks or pads. They have no limit on length of foot/toe that I know of. They have divisions within flat shod classes according to weight, width of shoe, presence or lack of toe weight and or calks etc.
And the video is a good example of how banning bands would eliminate a lot of evils.
Did you notice the scurfed-up hair on the pasterns and coronet of the stacked chained horse as compared to the other two?
Oh- - And I do agree the other folks are lying… TWH IS the ultimate pleasure ride.
[QUOTE=FortheTWH;6863386]
You know, what’s funny is I went to the Scottsdale Arabian horse show over the weekend and watched the Saddle seat championship classes. I watched both the Arab and Half-Arab Classes for each championship division. NONE of the horses had bands on. Some were wearing a slight wedge, but they all had shoes on that clearly fit their feet and there were no bands. These horses stepped lively and actually looked good.
The TWH industry has come to rely on them and use them as tools to help sore their horses. There is absolutely no need for them in the real horse world.[/QUOTE]
What is the maximum shoe weight in these Arab divisions? If the shoe is steel a big shoe will have big weight; if the shoe is AL it won’t.
Hurleycane, I think I’m correct in answering the question as asked. Bands are used to hold shoes on because nails, alone, won’t. If the shoe is unbalanced or on a poorly trimmed foot nails won’t hold it, either. This is not an “either-or” situation.
If the NWHA is drifting back towards the “bigger is better” standard for front end movement it won’t be the first “sound horse organization” to do so. I’ve long maintained that it’s the action sought that is the issue. As long as the “big lick” movement is the standard (and makes the money) then you’ll have have people who will “do what they have to do” in order to achieve it.
G.
G I think what I was getting at is not apparent in my post. Sometimes bands are used in a lighter shod horse because the trainer and farrier sought to add an extreme toe extension to animate the front end. Which is what I was getting at with the 2 inch toe in front of the dish. So it is not always just the weight - but the sought after mechanical distortion which necessitates the band.
Gotta say again - outlawing them bands is the ticket.
Thank you all. Light is beginning to dawn.
SHOW Inc. is david howard Show hio is david howard.Show Inc is TWHSO and now is PHA. So its very plan David Howard owns either Shelbyville or the Calsonic.maybe both.He(david Howard)has most if not all of the control in the twh show arena.now he is going after the NWHA.
my question is WHO did He pay and how?
the Calsonic is not going out of business or out of MONEY.
SHOW Inc. is david howard Show hio is david howard.Show Inc is TWHSO and now is PHA. So its very plan David Howard owns either Shelbyville or the Calsonic.maybe both.He(david Howard)has most if not all of the control in the twh show arena.now he is going after the NWHA.
my question is WHO did He pay and how?
the Calsonic is not going out of business or out of MONEY.
[QUOTE=hurleycane;6863697]
G I think what I was getting at is not apparent in my post. Sometimes bands are used in a lighter shod horse because the trainer and farrier sought to add an extreme toe extension to animate the front end. Which is what I was getting at with the 2 inch toe in front of the dish. So it is not always just the weight - but the sought after mechanical distortion which necessitates the band.
Gotta say again - outlawing them bands is the ticket.[/QUOTE]
This would make sense. The band, however, is still being used for the same purpose: hold something on the foot that can’t be held in normal fashion (glue, nails, etc.).
G.
[QUOTE=aarpaso;6862429]
Now this is really worth watching,a great video very very informative.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJFD278XRMA&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/QUOTE]
Head * Desk
It’s not “bunk” - it’s truth, staring you right in the face… especially the BL gelding on the right, replete with wavy hair indicative of chemical soring. :mad:
I didn’t catch Hannah Pulver’s name. I’ve always been suspicious about her, the horses in her videos all show higher front end action after her “training”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCCJZJQoG_M
There is nothing wrong with Absolut Skyy’s gait, it’s not flashy but I would call it a nice traveling gait, forward, square, and not wasting any energy. Yet after her training he’s/she’s suddenly picking up his feet. All the horses in the video show more front end action, I doubt that’s all achieved by engaging the hind end.
[QUOTE=hurleycane;6863197]
Ugh… Awful to watch and worse to listen to. The distortion on the feet of the horses in this video is really sad. Even on the non-stacked black. But goodness the movement of the stacked horse is bad.
I will leave it at that.
Other than to add very disappointed that Hannah Pulvers participated in this.
Very.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=frugalannie;6863591]
And does anyone know who the clinic attendees were? The two men who asked questions clearly had some kind of interaction with the presenter in advance to produce such smooth lobs. And I think I saw one of the female attendees getting up on the gray horse at the end.[/QUOTE]
This dog and pony show was presented to the Gattis Leadership Group.
http://www.marshalltribune.com/story/1934618.html
Hurleycane, i am also disapointed in Hannah Pulver’s participation. Makes you wonder if she knew about Inman’s little narrative beforehand. Sad.
Hannah shows TWHs in TWH HIOs. She doesn’t show in NWHA or FOSH or ____ shows.
Where did you expect her to be? At the house?
Odd, I was under the impression that Hannah was supposed to be a natural horse trainer and did NWHA and/or FOSH. Don’t know where I got that idea, so I guess my suspicions about her training are probably right.
[QUOTE=katarine;6864655]
Hannah shows TWHs in TWH HIOs. She doesn’t show in NWHA or FOSH or ____ shows.
Where did you expect her to be? At the house?[/QUOTE]
So everyone that shows at a TWH show is soring their horses?
Really, Malda?
I didn’t say anything about soring. She could also be “nailing on the gait” by using heavy shoes. Aside from the negative effects of heavy shoes that have already been discussed, there’s no way to know if a horse has a natural running walk or is pacy. Winning horses are bred, producing more pacy horses and fewer natural running walk horses. Also, even if she’s not soring her horses and only using heavy/plantation shoes, others might use soring to match her horses’ way of moving. That’s how this crap gets started.
There was nothing wrong with the way those horses were moving in the video (there was one pacy horse) and no reason to change them for a ribbon.
[QUOTE=katarine;6864725]
So everyone that shows at a TWH show is soring their horses?
Really, Malda?[/QUOTE]
The video was blatantly supporting BL. It was more about supporting BL than showing the difference in movement between differently shod TWH. Whether HP knew that going in or not is what i was wondering about. I mean its one thing to be around the BL crowd, yet another to help their agenda.
How did natural get so confused? In my understanding, natural means without mechanical or action device attached to the foot. Soring is abuse.
And this is where the stacked folks are confused when they say this is natural. NOTHING natural about stacking up a horse.
ANd I never felt Hannah was a “natural” trainer. She does use action devices to train. Heck you can hear the jangling chains and rollers in quite a few of the videos.
It was a disappointment to me that Hannah was in the video to support the stacked horse venue and Inman’s comments. I had her in the same ball park as Nate -which is in the same show ring but none the less non-supportive of the stacked horse.
It is a valid place to be IMO.
But her being part of the “presentation” is a let down. For what ever reason, since she does not show and compete stacked horses I just surmised that Hannah did not support them. I also assumed she was not feeling the need to speak in opposition and instead stayed in the flat shod arena to showcase not just her talent - but her preference for the flat shod horse.
And she is good if not great with the flat shod horse. No doubt about it.
Will re-watch the tape - might have been the stacked horse I heard when the grey’s pic was frozen.
The other side of the coin could be that she’s there to promote her name=good flat shod horses. If people want to stay in TWHs, and want to win, they may now be even more aware of her skillset.
No one ever said it was easy to make a ‘honest’ living in the horse business. It isn’t easy in any business.
[QUOTE=katarine;6864725]
So everyone that shows at a TWH show is soring their horses?
Really, Malda?[/QUOTE]
A quick, and mostly accurate answer, is that if you want to win in the mainstream TWH show ring you’ll have to “touch” the horse some how to get the action you need to satisfy the judge.
Will that mean “soring” in ways that violate the HPA? In way too many instances, yes. But even if you stay within the law you’ll have to do something (unless you’re Supertrainer on Superhorse) and then it’s an open question as to whether what you do is harmful over time (short or long duration).
Once again, it’s the “winning movement” that drives all these other issues.
G.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
