Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

[The_Preacher]

Hey everybody; been busy chunkin a few rocks and trying to level the playing field, but first I want to close on my last post…

I have been entertaining people from around the world who have opinions and thoughts about what is going on with our industry. From this I have come to understand that its okay to allow everyone to have their say. You will either take it or leave it, or you may opt to comment on it, correct it, change it or agree with it.

But no longer are we to shut someone down for trying to express what they understand, sometimes the only way someone can articulate their thoughts is based on what they know, their training, their fund of knowledge.

I did not like that someone here for less than 60 days themselves telling someone else that they were basically not welcomed here., or they should not express themselves in the way that they had and degrading them by being what I saw as disrespectful.

That being said, our horses can use each and every voice to speak on their behalf, whether it be from another breed or even people who do not have horses.

And a majority of them are converts, it takes a bit of time sometimes to get someone to cross the line from the dark side…give them that time…

I’m gonna post some of the happenings that you may catch up.

Here’s the first; facilitated by Dick;

Bradley Dick posted in Bradley Dick's Chat Group for TWH
 
Bradley Dick
1:10pm Feb 26 
TWHBEA To Host Performance Industry SummitLewisburg, TN - The Tennessee Walking Horse Breeders’ And Exhibitors’ Association (TWHBEA) will host a Performance Industry Summit on March 15, 2013 at Association headquarters in Lewisburg, Tennessee. The purpose of the Summit, which is titled An Answer To Federal Regulation, is to give performance industry stakeholders an opportunity to compare ideas with an aim to developing and advancing a plan for effective self-regulation. This event will be for performance horse supporting organizations and attendance will be by invitation only. It will feature a variety of knowledgable speakers and open forums focused in three basic areas - Defining the Problem, Informational Presentations, Finding The Solution and Selling and Financing the Solution. Topics covered will include a legislative and political update, the status of the TWSHO lawsuit and its effect on the industry, the status of the One HIO/Performance Horse Council plan and perspectives from the AAEP, AVMA and American Horse Council. Open forums will be held to brainstorm workable solutions and ways to promote those solutions. For information or to be added to the guest list, please contact Christy Lantis, Vice President, Performance Horse, at [email]clicketycn@aol.com[/email] or 760.963.1856.

I followed this mess with my comments;

Mornin;

I woke up this morning to find this announcement that TWHBEA put out stating that there will be a “Private, Invitation Only” Meeting sponsored by TWHBEA and held on TWHBEA Membership property!

I will not sit still while TWHBEA Gerry-rigs some secret clandestine back in the woods meeting in the fashion of KKK meeting, and tell me I cannot attend!

TWHBEA is a open membership organization, as such ANY and ALL business or events hosted by TWHBEA belongs to ALL members that choose to participate.

I will take this around the world if I have to in protest, if TWHBEA spend one dime on advertisement, even in the posting of this which is man-hours or turning on one light in that building in support of the proposed meeting, legal ramifications will most certainly be investigated, charging the EC with whatever category that will fit this illegal endeavor.

Those days of back boiler room meetings have passed. and the majority of members do not want to return to that practice like a dog to its vomit.

Please reconsider, make changes or drop it completely.

Nathanael Jackson

[The_Preacher]

Then the next salvo went like this;

NWHA Executive and Bylaws Committee;

NWHA
Section I. Members of the NWHA shall be admitted, retained and expelled in accordance with such rules and regulations as may, from time to time, be adopted by the Members and enacted by the Board of Directors. In all matters governed by the vote of the Members, each Member in good standing shall be entitled to one vote. Members in good standing are defined as members who, within 90 days of the matter being voted on, are in compliance with the rules and regulations of NWHA and have no financial obligation owed to NWHA including the current year’s dues

It is so stated in our Bylaws that; In ALL matters governed by the vote of the Members, each Member in good standing shall be entitled to one vote.

This is Black Letter Law.

Individual Committees deal with and operate in ALL matters concerning the membership of NWHA.

As such, no members may serve on more than one committee having a vote.

Accordingly; I submit this Bylaws change below

[B]
No member of NWHA shall hold a voting seat on more than one committee at a time.

In order to be accessible to all interested members, members may choose three of the several committees they wish to serve upon, Every first choice of a member shall be granted a seat in that committee. Thereafter, second choices shall be seated, followed by third choices.

Explanation;

Currently, The President chooses members to seat individual committees; many members are turned away because the President states there are too many on the committees.

When in reality committees stand unfilled and members turned away from serving. As a public membership driven organization, to have one person (The President) select all who will serve the organization would be tantamount to “Stacking the Deck!” Personal, unfair and biased selection is held in the power of one person.

Closer examination shows some members serving on 5, 4, 3 and so; on different committees turning away members who have not had the opportunity to serve on just one. This tactic can be used to influence the direction of the organization by advancing the agendas of a few by spreading themselves throughout the committees.

NWHA is a membership driven organization which states that “NWHA…There IS a Difference!” in making such a statement, NWHA must be more transparent in its accessibility to members wanting to serve the organization. Every dues paying member in good standing shall never be turned away from serving…[/B]

[The_Preacher]

Ain’t done

TWHBEA Bylaw Additions: February 28, 2013

#1

No the group, organization or body outside the authority of TWHBEA that are not registered dues paying members of TWHBEA, may be represented in TWHBEA by a voting Director. Unless said group, organization or body‘s total membership are also dues paying members of the TWHBEA.

Explanation;

TWHBEA currently seats a voting International Board of Director representing The Trainer’s Division Committee for The Walking Horse Trainers Association. A group of over 400 members, who currently are not required or mandated by that body to be dues paying members of TWHBEA.

Would those over 400 members of WHTA be required to be dues paying members of TWHBEA the yearly income from that group would be over $24,000.00 per year.

This is the opposite of “No Taxation without Representation”: This would be tantamount to “No Representation without Membership.”

#2

No member of TWHBEA shall hold a voting seat on more than two committees at a time.

In order to be accessible to all interested members, members may choose three committees they wish to serve upon, Every first choice of a member shall be granted a seat in that committee. Thereafter, second choices shall be seated, followed by third choices. 

Explanation;

Currently, individual Committee Vice Presidents are permitted to seat their committees, but many dues paying members in good standing are turned away because VPs state there are too many on their committees. 

Closer examination shows some members serving on 9, 7, 5, 4 and so on different committees turning away members who have not had the opportunity to serve on just one.

TWHBEA is a membership driven organization which states that “Membership Has Its Advantages” in making such a statement, TWHBEA must be more transparent in its accessibility to members wanting to serve the organization. Every dues paying member in good standing shall never be turned away from serving.

[katarine]

Did you ask to be added to the guest list?

For information or to be added to the guest list, please contact Christy Lantis, Vice President, Performance Horse, at clicketycn@aol.com or 760.963.1856.

[The_Preacher]

The old ways of doing business must come to an end, members need to not only feel but know that they have full access to their organizations…

The people who want to win at any cost, to include stacking the deck, making rules that favor themselves ~~~~

Listen I’m pretty much done showing, ain’t really standing my stallion…then what be my motive for all of this?

Doin da right thang

Well, the opposition I am getting from the TWHBEA side come from the lickers, who number one do not want to lose a favorable seat on the board, but also lose the ability to control the org through committee saturation~~~~ too bad, so sad…

Now is the time I would encourage anyone who has left or those holding out on joining any of these orgs to do it now ~~~ fill our ranks of people who sympathize with the sound horse movement.

The Preacher

[The_Preacher]

[QUOTE] Did you ask to be added to the guest list?[/QUOTE

Katerine…didn’t need to …invitation means the host or hostess ASK / INVITES you…other wise whats the sense in having an invitation only meeting…

But the point is…you simply cannot have a dues paying membership organization use membership money to invite only a segment to a meeting held by the org…excluding others

Not a real hard concept to digest

[Fairfax]

[QUOTE=Guilherme;6863251]
You are correct. The band is there to hold a heavy, Plantation shoe on the foot. Hoof tissue is not strong enough to hold a48 oz. shoe no matter what kind of nail you use. Toe length is irrelevant, however; it’s all about weight.

A Plantation shoe is an action device. It’s just one without moving parts.

The band can be used as a soring agent if it is too tight. That is an HPA violation.

G.[/QUOTE]

According to USEF the band is not considered to be an action device.

Several problems I see as an outsider…

I noticed some posters are now turning on the plantation shod horses and are making accusations. Is this going to become the next BL victim?..meaning there needs to be another boogie man to attack after BL is eradicated.

Weight, has been explained, does NOT increase lift or action…therefore how could it be called an action device? (this is not to de-rail however it is relevant. One of the top ASB’s many years ago…5G…would only wear a 6 oz shoe. Anything greater negatively impacted his stride) Toe length DOES have an impact. There is a farrier up here who used to be in Alabama and he shod BL horses (he is now retired…as he is in his 80’s)

A concern expressed to me…now a shoe is an “action” device. What next? Trainers the flat shod enthusiasts don’t like will be designated action devices? Silly…of course…but I have seen stranger things occur in the horse industry.

Is there a study I can read showing how a tight band can be a soring device? I am interested as many ASB’s have that band…and they are not sore…

[sunridge1]

Oh for heavens sake. Weight does increase motion. Why use if it doesn’t? My TWH came here with Plantation shoes that are heavier than my ASB’s total package. I still have them both.

The TWH had way more motion with his heavy shoe than he does with kegs. It’s the very reason they were put on and I quote from the former owner who is a friend and a farrier.

Me: Why did you go to the trouble to put those shoes on to show me the horse?
Him (and I quote): Because it gives him more snap and knee in the front.

[katarine]

[QUOTE=The Preacher;6865287]

Did you ask to be added to the guest list?[/QUOTE

Katerine…didn’t need to …invitation means the host or hostess ASK / INVITES you…other wise whats the sense in having an invitation only meeting…

But the point is…you simply cannot have a dues paying membership organization use membership money to invite only a segment to a meeting held by the org…excluding others

Not a real hard concept to digest

USDF does this - they hold FEI symposiums where only _____ level trainers may attend, or if you’re a friend of that level trainer, you can go. You may not like what they are doing -but their bylaws may, in fact, allow it.

[katarine]

[QUOTE=The Preacher;6865287]

Did you ask to be added to the guest list?[/QUOTE

Katerine…didn’t need to …invitation means the host or hostess ASK / INVITES you…other wise whats the sense in having an invitation only meeting…

But the point is…you simply cannot have a dues paying membership organization use membership money to invite only a segment to a meeting held by the org…excluding others

Not a real hard concept to digest

USDF does this - they hold training symposiums where only _____ level trainers may attend, or if you’re a friend of that level trainer, you can go. You may not like what they are doing -but their bylaws may, in fact, allow it.

[Gnalli]

It could be the reason for the invite only is that they are trying to educate the padded horse people on what the federal regulations are now, and avoid the confrontations that tend to go on in something like this. WHen you have 2 opposing sides, sometimes, it is better for them to meet seperately and have calm heads on each side bring matters in for discussion.

TWHBEA To Host Performance Industry SummitLewisburg, TN - The Tennessee Walking Horse Breeders’ And Exhibitors’ Association (TWHBEA) will host a Performance Industry Summit on March 15, 2013 at Association headquarters in Lewisburg, Tennessee. The purpose of the Summit, which is titled An Answer To Federal Regulation, is to give performance industry stakeholders an opportunity to compare ideas with an aim to developing and advancing a plan for effective self-regulation. This event will be for performance horse supporting organizations and attendance will be by invitation only. It will feature a variety of knowledgable speakers and open forums focused in three basic areas - Defining the Problem, Informational Presentations, Finding The Solution and Selling and Financing the Solution. Topics covered will include a legislative and political update, the status of the TWSHO lawsuit and its effect on the industry, the status of the One HIO/Performance Horse Council plan and perspectives from the AAEP, AVMA and American Horse Council. Open forums will be held to brainstorm workable solutions and ways to promote those solutions. For information or to be added to the guest list, please contact Christy Lantis, Vice President, Performance Horse, at clicketycn@aol.com or 760.963.1856.

It sounds to me like there is limited space and they are going to have pro and anti there for discussions. I don't think there is some grand conspiracy to exclude anyone.

[Fairfax]

Weight is unable to compensate for a horse with no natural action.

There is a misconception that heavy shoes and packages will result in higher movement.

I do not know about the TWH however. The stack does seem to impact however the issue is SORING…Question: IF a TWH was put into stacks and NOT sored…no chains etc…would he/she still be able to move in that extreme manner?

I understand it props up the front end to get that ostrich style gait but would they have that same lift if no soring?

[katarine]

some horses don’t show more lift with just weight. You usually need the long toe to change the timing of the gait/AKA create more ground time and more air time to change up the timing of the footfalls.

A really long toe on a keg shod horse can (doesn’t always, but can) have as much visible effect on the stride as weight alone. Typically you see a heavy shoe coupled with a longer toe to result in a change in how the horse goes.
YMMV.

[The_Preacher]

Gnalli;

I must correct you, first…the meeting and banquet rooms are large enough to hold hundreds of people.

I cannot speak for USDF and their Bylaws, rules so I will not speculate, but for our org…all things having to do with this org belongs to the membership…

They sayexactly what their plan is…thre are a group of people wo are trying to get around the possibility ofH.R. 6388 by forming a new group and not calling their horses TWHs because 6388 stated that these laws impact the TWH, SSH & RH…so if they call their horses something else then they feel it does not apply to them

What they are trying to do in this meeting is get TWHBEA sign on to this new HIO…2 weeks ago they went to WHOA and made their pitch there.

YES, there is a consorted attempt to subvert and gut the breed registry to further the agenda of the lickin horse.

Instead of just capitulating and obeying the law…they seek ways to get around it.

We must be vigil in watchin out for and recognizing wolves in sheep’s clothing.

[aarpaso]

WAIT a DARN Minute:

did i read this right Preacher are you saying that the BL people want a NEW Breed of gaited horse,one that is only big lick how will they do that?so they will not fall under HR6388 because of the name TWH.

HOLY BAT WINGS:eek:

what will they think of next? :no:

[Guilherme]

Long toes (and normal angle modification) are the first thing you want to have to increase front end action. This is generally the first job of the stack of pads. (For extra credit, why? ;))

You can enhance the effect of the long toe by adding weight. Anyone who disputes this should review Newton’s First Law.

Putting a legal bangles, balls, beads, chains, etc. on the foot enhances the effect of the long toe as long as they are on the foot.

Soring up the foot or adding illegal instrumentalities on the foot will enhance the effect of the long toe. One way to sore up the foot is to over-tighten the band.

Doing all should, in theory, get the maximum effect.

Gnalli’s explanation of the motivation for a “closed” meeting is beautiful in its simplicity and logic. It’s also big, steaming mass of Night Soil, Bovine, Male. The “wagons are circling” so that an effective industry “front” can be presented to the Feds without having to deal with such minor matters are TWH owners who disagree with their Middle TN masters. The folks from the Basin are passed masters at quashing dissent. This is yet another example of that long demonstrated ability.

These people have been at this for 50+ years. Always remember that when you watch them at work.

G.

[Fairfax]

I understand the long toe coupled with weight however the amount 48 ounces for a plantation sounds very heavy.

Again…if you have a horse on stacks…and NO soring…are they going to move in the same manner or is that strictly caused by the soring?

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=Fairfax;6865771]
I understand the long toe coupled with weight however the amount 48 ounces for a plantation sounds very heavy.

Again…if you have a horse on stacks…and NO soring…are they going to move in the same manner or is that strictly caused by the soring?[/QUOTE]

Again, you start with the long toe (and probably lowered angle) and go from there. Adding other stuff just makes the long toe more effective at generating front end action.

G.

[sunridge1]

[QUOTE=Fairfax;6865541]
Weight is unable to compensate for a horse with no natural action.

There is a misconception that heavy shoes and packages will result in higher movement.

I do not know about the TWH however. The stack does seem to impact however the issue is SORING…Question: IF a TWH was put into stacks and NOT sored…no chains etc…would he/she still be able to move in that extreme manner?

I understand it props up the front end to get that ostrich style gait but would they have that same lift if no soring?[/QUOTE]

It DOES result in higher motion and yes it is simple physics. It has no choice. And yes it REALLY helps an already big moving horse. See centripetal force.

We are not talking about stock horses even though I bet it work to some extent on some of them too. Just like some of them can gait. The gait gene didn’t escape any American made breeds of horses.

[gogaitedgo]

[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6865105]
The video was blatantly supporting BL. It was more about supporting BL than showing the difference in movement between differently shod TWH. Whether HP knew that going in or not is what i was wondering about. I mean its one thing to be around the BL crowd, yet another to help their agenda.[/QUOTE]

No, it is not one thing to be around the lickers yet another to help their agenda. You are either for it or against it. If you are against it you don’t appear in their clinics and you don’t show at the same shows. It’s very black and white. No gray areas at all.