Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

[gogaitedgo]

[QUOTE=Fairfax;6865333]
According to USEF the band is not considered to be an action device.

Several problems I see as an outsider…

I noticed some posters are now turning on the plantation shod horses and are making accusations. Is this going to become the next BL victim?..meaning there needs to be another boogie man to attack after BL is eradicated.

Weight, has been explained, does NOT increase lift or action…therefore how could it be called an action device? (this is not to de-rail however it is relevant. One of the top ASB’s many years ago…5G…would only wear a 6 oz shoe. Anything greater negatively impacted his stride) Toe length DOES have an impact. There is a farrier up here who used to be in Alabama and he shod BL horses (he is now retired…as he is in his 80’s)

A concern expressed to me…now a shoe is an “action” device. What next? Trainers the flat shod enthusiasts don’t like will be designated action devices? Silly…of course…but I have seen stranger things occur in the horse industry.

Is there a study I can read showing how a tight band can be a soring device? I am interested as many ASB’s have that band…and they are not sore…[/QUOTE]

What does weight do?

[Thoro]

[QUOTE=Gnalli;6865536]
It could be the reason for the invite only is that they are trying to educate the padded horse people on what the federal regulations are now, and avoid the confrontations that tend to go on in something like this. WHen you have 2 opposing sides, sometimes, it is better for them to meet seperately and have calm heads on each side bring matters in for discussion.

TWHBEA To Host Performance Industry SummitLewisburg, TN - The Tennessee Walking Horse Breeders’ And Exhibitors’ Association (TWHBEA) will host a Performance Industry Summit on March 15, 2013 at Association headquarters in Lewisburg, Tennessee. The purpose of the Summit, which is titled An Answer To Federal Regulation, is to give performance industry stakeholders an opportunity to compare ideas with an aim to developing and advancing a plan for effective self-regulation. This event will be for performance horse supporting organizations and attendance will be by invitation only. It will feature a variety of knowledgable speakers and open forums focused in three basic areas - Defining the Problem, Informational Presentations, Finding The Solution and Selling and Financing the Solution. Topics covered will include a legislative and political update, the status of the TWSHO lawsuit and its effect on the industry, the status of the One HIO/Performance Horse Council plan and perspectives from the AAEP, AVMA and American Horse Council. Open forums will be held to brainstorm workable solutions and ways to promote those solutions. For information or to be added to the guest list, please contact Christy Lantis, Vice President, Performance Horse, at clicketycn@aol.com or 760.963.1856.

It sounds to me like there is limited space and they are going to have pro and anti there for discussions. I don't think there is some grand conspiracy to exclude anyone.[/QUOTE]

This is what I heard-
 The newly organized Performance Horse Association will hold its first board meeting on Friday March 1, 2013. The board will consist of two representatives each from the Walking Horse Trainers' Association (WHTA), Heart of America HIO, PRIDE HIO, SHOW HIO and Tennessee Walking Show Horse Organization (TWSHO). Those 10 representatives will be joined by three independent representatives to the board for a total of 13 board members.

As part of the Performance Horse Association and the HIOs that joined, all licensed DQPs and judges will be licensed with the Performance Horse Association. Any affiliations with Heart of America, PRIDE or SHOW made prior to the formation of the new association will be honored by the new unified HIO.

The board will release details for show management after the conclusion of the meeting on March 1.

Article source: http://www.walkinghorsetrainers.com/about-us/news--press-

[WalkInTheWoods]

[QUOTE=gogaitedgo;6866207]
No, it is not one thing to be around the lickers yet another to help their agenda. You are either for it or against it. If you are against it you don’t appear in their clinics and you don’t show at the same shows. It’s very black and white. No gray areas at all.[/QUOTE]

So are you saying that flatshod horses should not be at the same show as BLs? That is pretty harsh. And not reasonable during this transition time. People have to live. If say, i was making a living training and showing flatshods and i lived in Tennessee, how could i make that living if my owners wanted their horses to show in the bigger shows and at Celebration ? The issue is not black and white. I guess it depends on where you live. You can be totally against BL and still be surrounded by it. The flatshods need to be out there showing their stuff. Hopefully one day that will be the only way we see TWHs shown.

Now on the other hand if you can convince everyone who shows halter and flatshod not to attend a show if BLs are on the grounds, then yeah it could be black or white. If every horseman except the lickers refused to show at Celebration it could be black or white and Celebration would be out of business.

But that is not the real world which is mostly grey.

[katarine]

There are awful people in every discipline, gogaitedgo.

Following your logic:

If you don’t drug your Hunter, can you not show at A shows?
If you don’t train in hock hobbles, can you still show a reiner?
If you don’t whip them into a frenzy, can you still show your good Arabian in halter?

[Thoro]

[QUOTE=hurleycane;6863197]
Ugh… Awful to watch and worse to listen to. The distortion on the feet of the horses in this video is really sad. Even on the non-stacked black. But goodness the movement of the stacked horse is bad.

I will leave it at that.

Other than to add very disappointed that Hannah Pulvers participated in this.

Very.[/QUOTE]
The BL crowd seems to enjoy it on BDs page-----

Wednesday at 2:31pm

TWH Clinic (Mike Inman - TWHNC CEO) - 02-22-2013 youtube.com

Morgan Leigh Walden Head Great job. Like · 1 · Wednesday at 6:41pm

Joe Clements Pass on to All your Friends. Thanks Like · Yesterday at 11:56am

Krista Christner Real good job Like · Yesterday at 11:54pm

Robin Webb Shared it. Like · 6 hours ago

Jeff Curry very good presentation Like · 3 hours ago

Jeff Curry somebody has terrible equatation

[katarine]

That is tacky, Thoro. Post your real name too if you’re going to post theirs.

That’s a public FB page, anyone wanting to go there and read or join, can. Posting their real names here- is just- well, tacky.

[Thoro]

[QUOTE=katarine;6866347]
That is tacky, Thoro. Post your real name too if you’re going to post theirs.

That’s a public FB page, anyone wanting to go there and read or join, can. Posting their real names here- is just- well, tacky.[/QUOTE]

I posted it to show what they said, not who they were.
So sorry you thought it was tacky, not that you are here to judge…
But whatever, I deleted it.

[katarine]

Whatever your intentions were, this is a board where we don’t call people out by their given names unless that’s their screen name. And those folks on FB aren’t here to know they are being mocked/vilified.

-It’s just a bit of internet etiquette. Not my rule, just a norm around here

I judged it to be tacky, just as you judged their comments to be -shameful or whatever word you assigned to them.

Judgment happens, man.

[Thoro]

[QUOTE=katarine;6866387]
Whatever your intentions were, this is a board where we don’t call people out by their given names unless that’s their screen name. And those folks on FB aren’t here to know they are being mocked/vilified.

-It’s just a bit of internet etiquette. Not my rule, just a norm around here

I judged it to be tacky, just as you judged their comments to be -shameful or whatever word you assigned to them.

Judgment happens, man.[/QUOTE]
Well I didn’t mock them, though I sure as heck disagree with the majority of them!

[katarine]

So do I

[gogaitedgo]

[QUOTE=katarine;6866334]
There are awful people in every discipline, gogaitedgo.

Following your logic:

If you don’t drug your Hunter, can you not show at A shows?
If you don’t train in hock hobbles, can you still show a reiner?
If you don’t whip them into a frenzy, can you still show your good Arabian in halter?[/QUOTE]

Actually, I oppose shows on principle. Your attempt to mock my “logic” proves my point.

[gogaitedgo]

[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6866311]
So are you saying that flatshod horses should not be at the same show as BLs? That is pretty harsh. And not reasonable during this transition time. People have to live. If say, i was making a living training and showing flatshods and i lived in Tennessee, how could i make that living if my owners wanted their horses to show in the bigger shows and at Celebration ? The issue is not black and white. I guess it depends on where you live. You can be totally against BL and still be surrounded by it. The flatshods need to be out there showing their stuff. Hopefully one day that will be the only way we see TWHs shown.

Now on the other hand if you can convince everyone who shows halter and flatshod not to attend a show if BLs are on the grounds, then yeah it could be black or white. If every horseman except the lickers refused to show at Celebration it could be black or white and Celebration would be out of business.

But that is not the real world which is mostly grey.[/QUOTE]

My world is black and white. It’s wrong or it isn’t.

[katarine]

[QUOTE=gogaitedgo;6866550]
Actually, I oppose shows on principle. Your attempt to mock my “logic” proves my point.[/QUOTE]

That’s fine. Then what you really meant was that all horse shows are evil. On principle. Even FOSH and NWHA.

And that’s fine. Just say what you really mean the first time and your readers won’t be misinformed.

[Guilherme]

I’m not a fan of rail classes. IMO they reward enhanced artificiality no matter the breed or discipline. Watching horses go 'round and 'round in a circle is almost as exciting as watching paint dry. BUT, that just my view. I certainly don’t demand others subscribe to it. I don’t expect the government to make it the law of the land.

As for a “black/white” way of viewing the world, I’m reminded that a great, American philosopher, Morticia Addams, once observed “what is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.” Those with hyper rigid moral codes also share the stage with the likes of Pol Pot, Joe Stalin, Il Duce, and Simon Legree.

Or, put another way, what you see often depends on where you stand.

G.

[gogaitedgo]

[QUOTE=Guilherme;6866918]
I’m not a fan of rail classes. IMO they reward enhanced artificiality no matter the breed or discipline. Watching horses go 'round and 'round in a circle is almost as exciting as watching paint dry. BUT, that just my view. I certainly don’t demand others subscribe to it. I don’t expect the government to make it the law of the land.

As for a “black/white” way of viewing the world, I’m reminded that a great, American philosopher, Morticia Addams, once observed “what is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.” Those with hyper rigid moral codes also share the stage with the likes of Pol Pot, Joe Stalin, Il Duce, and Simon Legree.

Or, put another way, what you see often depends on where you stand.

G.[/QUOTE]

Nice. So I’m on the same level as commie mass murderers because I happened to notice that EVERY TIME humans start showing and breeding for show, the animals suffer. Life must be confusing for you, not knowing right from wrong and traveling in a gray shaded fog all the time.

[katarine]

That’s coocoo.When I got my own TWH dialed in tight to prepare for walk/canter departures, only then did I discover his right stifle was tight and weak compared to his left. We treated him and worked with it, and evened him out. Had I not been working him and preparing him to show, I might have injured him or fussed at him for being ‘uncooperative’ about his left lead.

I noticed that every time we get a warm day in February, some people ride their fat, out of shape trail horses 20 miles in a day then throw them back out in the pasture for three more weeks of winter. Does that mean all trail horses are similarly mismanaged?

[Shansurri]

There are abuses in all equine environments. I see abuse on the trails, at shows, and yes… at people’s private barns. Of the three I listed, there is one place where people NOTICE the abuse, and that is at a show. Much better, IMO, for abuse to show up at a show where it can be officially decried and specifically ruled against, than to let it quietly build on trails and in the barns of people with no one around to take them to task.

Can show rings perpetuate abusive practices? Of course. But they don’t HAVE to. There are plenty of breed organizations that manage to showcase their animals without hurting them.

[Shansurri]

There are abuses in all equine environments. I see abuse on the trails, at shows, and yes… at people’s private barns. Of the three I listed, there is one place where people NOTICE the abuse, and that is at a show. Much better, IMO, for abuse to show up at a show where it can be officially decried and specifically ruled against, than to let it quietly build on trails and in the barns of people with no one around to take them to task.

Can show rings perpetuate abusive practices? Of course. But they don’t HAVE to. There are plenty of breed organizations that manage to showcase their animals without hurting them.

[Thoro]

^^^This.
I recently left a barn where the supposed ‘trainer’ wouldn’t hesitate to PUNCH a horse in the head if it didn’t stand still ( trust me, it didn’t help) This person would take one of the horses to maybe 2 small, local shows a year and didn’t take the other one to any shows, she mostly trail rode, and didn’t ride that much really.

Despite the fact she hardly showed ‘her’ horses she still treated them like crap.

Some people abuse their horses even if they don’t show, yes, showing may provide a bit of an incentive, but I’ve seen it happen with trailriders, pleasure riders, pasture puffs, heck, I’ve seen little kids beating on their school ponies!

[sunridge1]

IMO when the “show” takes the place of ethics in the breed standard. There is a huge problem. That is the end result of a breed specific rail class.