And it would be VERY cool to get some farrier associations involved in setting limits. You hearing me farriers???
[QUOTE=aarpaso;6327904]
Freda,N Y
sweetheart ya ain’t from the south,this is good ole boy country,even if ya are a Law Enforcement Bubba you Do not force law on a good ole Boy.unless forced to do so by a HIGHER Power ie Federal.
and a word of caution folks that punch bowl remark is uncalled for.shame on ya
in the newpaper some of the sponsors (feed store)are staying with the Celebration. in the day 1960, you could send a groom most of the time it was a young blk boy to the feed store to buy THE STUFF out of the back room.the trainer had nothing to do with it, it was the boy. every barn at the show knew who sored,and they do now.[/QUOTE]
So your point is… don’t bother?
Well bless your heart.
Dahlin’ things get changed when enough people speak up… 2 recent events that come to mind, Mane and Tails sponsorship of an anti-carriage horse event, and Kommen Foundations rescinding funding from Planned Parenthood.
You don’t think it can be done? Then sit down, get outta’ the way, and watch and learn from those who actually get things done.
If this was already posted, my apologies … but a good article.
"Soring is to the walking-horse industry what steroids are to mainstream sports. Both are shortcuts, a way to attain peak performance more quickly, easily and dramatically.
Those on the inside of the industry say that a diligent, talented trainer can teach a horse to display the Big Lick without chemicals, mechanical devices or painful shoeing methods. Likewise, those who train NFL players say a linebacker can work out for hours on end to increase his speed and strength.
But just as the football player can get bigger/stronger/faster more quickly and easily via steroids, the horse trainer can get the desired gait by going medieval on the horse.
There’s one important difference, though:
The football player makes the decision whether to use steroids or not.
The walking horse doesn’t get to make the call on soring."
I doubt some of those football players get to make the call on steroids, either – they are pushed hard as well, but that’s another story. At least they do have something of a choice, unlike the horses.
Dear Life;
You betcha!! As any War Veteran “There are no atheist or agnostics in a foxhole”
The God I serve is intertwined in every breath I take and every act I do…I have not tried to convert anyone here, I am not ashamed to say that I love and serve God…and if asked will tell you where I get my inspiration, understanding and hope in this world where so many are losing theirs…
He has asked us to be good stewards over the animals He has given us…curious, why would that bother you that I would feel that way?
[QUOTE=bayou_bengal;6327954]
I bet you can go into almost any tack store or feed store in Middle Tennessee or go to the online catalogues and order the ingredients right now.[/QUOTE]
You’re joking, surely?! 
“and a word of caution folks that punch bowl remark is uncalled for.shame on ya”
You know it was funny–but I rolled right over it reading so quickly. But I’m savin’ it for future use–lol!
[QUOTE=spookhorse;6327980]
It’s not about banning the shoes, pads, and action devices AS A WHOLE… What really needs to be looked at is imposing strict regulations as to the SIZE AND WEIGHTS allowable, not matter what the breed, showing division, or purpose of the pads/shoes/devices.
I think the Big Lick got out of hand because there aren’t limits. There may be as to pad size (will have to check my rulebook when I get home) but there are none as to shoe and pad weight. Each of those packages per hoof weighs in the range of 5lbs. There is a limit of 6oz on showing action devices, but I have seen 16 oz trained with at the barns.
Put serious limits on this stuff and enforce it and the Big Lick will go away if they can’t put it on the horses for showing reasons. I don’t think anyone is going to take a horse Big Lick for a pleasure horse.
Wish I could get into this more right now, but typing on my phone is tedious to say the least![/QUOTE]
This
I also feel the need is regulations and enforcement of those rules. There must be specific rules and regulations. IMO The law proposed by the petition is not specific enough and only calls for an outright ban on pads and action devices.
“By enacting a law banning The Pads & Action Devices, the common practices of Soring will be unnecessary.”
Repercussions are currently happening – publicity really works. This an article about Shelbyville.
“It’s embarrassing to have someone in my profession doing something like that,” said Winky Groover, a Shelbyville trainer for nearly 20 years. “It’s an embarrassment for me and the community, what he did. It’s awful.”
Groover threw open his stable doors Friday, inviting anyone who wanted to look at the horses’ legs or watch him take them for a spin. He unwrapped the padding around Keep Your Cash’s legs and the 2-year-old stood stock still, his coat shiny with fly repellent and his forelock braided with ribbon for a show that night in Petersburg, Tenn.
But Groover couldn’t have always been that candid. Back in 1999, he fought a scar rule violation — meaning a horse inspector found evidence that a horse’s ankle had been damaged to encourage the gait — and lost.
“I can’t do anything about my past,” he said. “I don’t care to discuss that any more than my personal past. I’ve changed my life and my ways, and I feel like I’m a leader in training these horses the way they need to be.
“All I can do is change.”
…
“This particular issue with the soring, it’s not new,” Williamson said. “It’s unfortunate it took the national stage, but we’ll get through this. … This is really not who we are. We are your average, nice folks.”
Next door, stylists at Bella Donna Salon said they couldn’t watch the Nightline piece without crying. Their clientele, walking horse people, sat in chairs the next day, talking about how horrible it was. The stylists wondered what it could mean for business — people thinking the whole industry was like that.
“If I were an outsider looking in on it, I would think most of them are that way,” Samantha Floyd said.
Ami Seibers shook her head. “They need to go there and see how people who don’t abuse horses treat them,” she said.
The next shop is Marsha’s on the Square, where industry people take off their training clothes and try on custom-made sequined jackets and suits with tails — competition apparel. As in so many other businesses, pictures of horses cover the walls.
Ashlea Shepard, whose relatives own the business, hesitated at first but became passionate in her defense of the industry that feeds them. She owns two horses, and her 8-year-old daughter shows them.
“I think there are extreme cases out there — all the horror stories that you’ve heard in the news that Nightline tried to make current,” she said. “I trust the guys (now) know what they’re doing.”
There will always be those people who refuse to see the truth. Especially when money is involved!
so in that regard they are just about to reap what so many of us did back then…they deserve it.
Tamara
You were part of Big Lick soring and showing?
[QUOTE=The Preacher;6328017]
Dear Life;
You betcha!! As any War Veteran “There are no atheist or agnostics in a foxhole”
The God I serve is intertwined in every breath I take and every act I do…I have not tried to convert anyone here, I am not ashamed to say that I love and serve God…and if asked will tell you where I get my inspiration, understanding and hope in this world where so many are losing theirs…
He has asked us to be good stewards over the animals He has given us…curious, why would that bother you that I would feel that way?[/QUOTE]
Coth has off-topic days for discussions of religion. But since you brought it up, Why do Muslims,Jews and Christians kill each other if they all worship the same god?
“There are no atheist or agnostics in a foxhole” There are many atheists and agnostics in our armed services. That was quite insulting to them to state that they do not exist.
This should probably be a separate post, but it underlines the abuse that seems to be prevalent in certain arenas in this business - and by the people who should be leaders in animal care and welfare!
Cesar Parra and Van the Man. © 2012 Ken Braddick/dressage-news.com
By KENNETH J. BRADDICK
Cesar Parra, who rode for Colombia in the 2004 Olympics and became an American citizen to ride for the United States at the Pan American Games last year, has been formally charged by the state of New Jersey with “torment, torture” and “abuse” of a horse in 2009.
Two complaints–one criminal and one civil–were filed by Ashley Meyer, an officer of the Society for `the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (SPCA) in Hunterdon County, New Jersey, about an hour from New York City. An SPCA officer in New Jersey is recognized as a fully authorized law enforcement officer.
Summons were issued by the state of New Jersey where Cesar Parra has a farm in Whitehouse Station to appear in Readington Township Municipal Court in Whitehouse Station on April 5 to answer charges of “torment, torture” and “overdrive, overwork…abuse” of a living animal on or about June 6, 2009.
The charges were filed against Cesar Parra, who is based in Jupiter, Florida, while competing on the winter circuit, based on alleged mistreatment of the horse, William PFF, three years ago.
If convicted of the charges under New Jersey’s anti-cruelty statutes, Cesar Parra would face a maximum penalty of a fine of up to $1,000 and six months’ imprisonment.
The filing of the charges has been reported in daily newspapers in New Jersey and Pennsylvania.
A spokeperson for Cesar Parra said he has retained legal counsel to address the filings in the Readington Township Municipal Court and “fully expects the charges will be dismissed as the sad true facts about the accident in question come to light.”
Cesar Parra. the spokesperson said, does not deny the horse was injured in an incident involving his evaluation of the horse. The owner had sought Cesar Parra’s opinion about her young dressage prospect at his facility in Whitehouse Station, New Jersey in 2009.
In the presence of the owner and several observers, the horse was longed.
“Without warning and unpredictably, apparently in response to an outside stimulus, the horse suddenly exhibited dangerous behavior, reared, lost his balance and fell over backwards striking his head on the ground,” the spokesperson said.
“Dr. Parra is deeply saddened that the horse was injured, but categorically denies any allegation of cruelty, abuse, gross negligence, recklessness or any other inappropriate conduct in the handling of the horse.”
For Colombia, he won team silver at the 1999 Pan American Games and rode in the 2003 Pan Ams, and competed at the 2002 and 2006 World Equestrian Games, the 2004 Olympics in Athens and the 2005 World Cup Final in Las Vegas.
As an American, he won the U.S. Intermediaire Championship in 2010
He rode on the U.S. team that won gold at the Pan American Games that was competed at small tour in Guadalajara, Mexico, last year. He was also the only Pan Am equestrian competitor to receive a “yellow card” for rules violations.
The latest Grand Prix horse he has competed is Van the Man, a 10-year-old KWPN gelding (Obelisk x Lady x Landjunker) bought as an Olympic prospect. The horse was previously ridden by Dorothee Schneider of Germany.
If you click on the link, click on the 4th link from the top left , and read about “Williams story”
[QUOTE=Angela Freda;6327798]
Forgive me if this has already been asked, but this beating about the head with what looks like an ax/twitch handle, shocking and the application of caustic materials to the legs, I would think, is animal abuse or torture… which is generally illegal, isn’t it?
So regardless of WHY they do it, that they do should get them in some serious hot water with their local AC or law enforcement…
At the very least these ‘trainers’ should be arrested and their horses removed and they should never be allowed to have horses again… what am I missing?[/QUOTE]
In Tennessee, it’s only a misdimeanor. However, there is a bill on the Governor’s desk now that makes aggravated animal cruelty a felony.
[QUOTE=hundredacres;6327543]
It’s fear tactic that the registries use. It doesn’t explain the thousands of JC, AQHA, APHA, ASTB (etc.) - all papered ands standing in feed lots at this very moment. They aren’t there because someone didn’t pay their dues.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Jackie’s horses end up in an auction at some point. Where are they, anyway? They sure haven’t been “rescued” by the HSUS.[/QUOTE]
Sadly it is a reality. Yes, there are so many registered horses in slaughter feedlots and rescues however it is the REGISTERED horse that USUALLY (not always) gets the nod. When there are so many horses available why not get one with papers.
come on folks the topic is how can we as horse owners help stop the abuse of the TWH/BL horses NOT our chosen faith.
Freda,my point is in the south things don’t always work the same as in the north or west for that matter.
i have stood up and screamed in a town meeting about how the TWH is bein abused,i have sent pictures my local USDA rep.so don’t tell me i don’t care.
and just to give you alittle more fodder,i’m a cancer survivor.
i own 2 gaited horses,i have shown, have 60+ yrs with horses .so don’t preach to me.
i came here to help give a voice to the TWH,maybe wake-up some horse folks that did not know what happens to the BL horses.
some of you are so worried about MY training tools you have lost focus on the topic,its not about YOU,its about the TWH/BL OK
[QUOTE=bludejavu;6327665]
Actually it was specifically requested early on in this conversation, quite adamently, that Saddlebred folks stay out of the conversation. Which is why I have been reading instead of posting for the last 15-18 pages.;)[/QUOTE]
It would be great to be able to stay out of it however the petition and others that will follow will drag other breeds into the limelight, include them in the “new” legislation and all of us will have to live with it.
IF this is to be a TWH ONLY thread and story then I would suggest that the petition ONLY be allowed to have signatures of TWH owners. That would discount any viewers from TV land who were angered, or any other individuals who are against cruelty to animals.
I don’t think any petition of 1000 or fewer names would result in any action to stem the BL activities.
I would also like to mention that so many are mentioning the hitting of the horses with bats, whips etc…NONE of those are action devices.
It would appear to be a logical step to a non horse owner to also want to outlaw, ban all whips, ropes, forks or anything that could be used as a weapon again a horse or another animal.
All one has to do it look at the individuals who posted against the carriage horses. One even stated no horse should be forced to drink from a bucket another horse had just had a drink from.
Do you want THOSE type of people determining the equine industry?
[QUOTE=fburton;6328019]
You’re joking, surely?! :([/QUOTE]
NOPE–Wish I were. Here’s a link to one of the catalogs on line- NOW mind you, I am NOT saying these things are being sold by this store with the INTENT that they be used for soring-- BUT many of these things ARE in fact “misused” to cause soring-- including the zinc oxide cream- the DMSO and some other things.
Aso-- just look at the sizes of the containers- would the average horse person use THIS much of any of this in a LIFETIME let a lone in a summer or so?
ANd keep in mind-- not everything they carry is listed online. You should just browse around the site a little-- especially in the horse care products and the “work grease list and” the “healing aids”-- who NEEDS this much of any “healing aid” if something isn’t going on that shouldn’t?
http://www.ehorseequipment.com/browse-categories.aspx?cid=111
http://www.ehorseequipment.com/browse-categories.aspx?cid=111
“Work grease”?!?!?!?!?
I agree, TONS of people down there with their heads in the sand. TONS. And 250,000 attend the Celebration? God, way bigger than I thought. How difficult is it going to be to change this.
[QUOTE=Fairfax;6328112]
It would be great to be able to stay out of it however the petition and others that will follow will drag other breeds into the limelight, include them in the “new” legislation and all of us will have to live with it.
IF this is to be a TWH ONLY thread and story then I would suggest that the petition ONLY be allowed to have signatures of TWH owners. That would discount any viewers from TV land who were angered, or any other individuals who are against cruelty to animals.
I don’t think any petition of 1000 or fewer names would result in any action to stem the BL activities.
I would also like to mention that so many are mentioning the hitting of the horses with bats, whips etc…NONE of those are action devices.
It would appear to be a logical step to a non horse owner to also want to outlaw, ban all whips, ropes, forks or anything that could be used as a weapon again a horse or another animal.
All one has to do it look at the individuals who posted against the carriage horses. One even stated no horse should be forced to drink from a bucket another horse had just had a drink from.
Do you want THOSE type of people determining the equine industry?[/QUOTE]
Fairfax - Can you direct at least one of your posts to the “action devices” without making reference to those used above the knee???
WHy should you do this? Cause the movement in question is being caused by the things done to and affixed to the horses feet.
The Parra case has been hashed over a lot on this board – I noticed that because I was searching for the “PFF” suffix, used by the infamous Nancy Skakel, who let her stallion die suffering in a stall, and there have been numerous threads about it. I noticed too that Fugly defended Parra and bashed the owner in this case. Nice, new Fugly. /sarcasm.
So yes, there is a lot of cruelty in the world, however, it’s not sanctioned, commonplace cruelty that seems to be a recurring problem in one division of equestrian sport, a division that seems to practically demand it to get the performance required by one tiny aspect of horse showing.
I don’t think this issue has anything to do with religious beliefs, either. It’s a practical issue of stopping the abuse of animals that don’t deserve to be in pain for our pleasure, regardless of where your moral compass comes from.
@fairfax – most of the hitting comes from the idea that the horse shouldn’t flinch in pain, resulting from the examination of a steward for illegal soring. So get rid of the soring, get rid of at least some of the hitting and desensitizing.
[QUOTE=Fairfax;6328112]
I would also like to mention that so many are mentioning the hitting of the horses with bats, whips etc…NONE of those are action devices.
It would appear to be a logical step to a non horse owner to also want to outlaw, ban all whips, ropes, forks or anything that could be used as a weapon again a horse or another animal. [/QUOTE]
And those who think logically know that it’s not the whip that does the hitting…
it’s not about the weapon it’s about outing the abuser… people who beat, sore or starve their horses need to pay the consequences of those actions, don’t you agree?
Otherwise, to ignore what is truly abuse by a person using one of those tools in the ways we see in that video, makes it EASIER for the non-horseperson to say whips are abusive and need to be banned. When we all stand up and say ‘that’s abusive to use that twitch handle/whip that way’ we show that we will not stand for using these tools abusively.
