Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

[QUOTE=carolprudm;6331252]
Given the gravity of the situation maybe it should e instigated, not every horse or every show but random, similar to drug testing[/QUOTE]

Yeah…but…what are you going to use for a baseline?

Drug testing tells us what compounds are found in a sample of bodily fluids. It also tells us the concentration. If the substance is banned, enforcement is easy. If only some level is banned, that’s harder but not impossible. With thermography you have just a picture of increased heat. How do you tie this, Constitutionally, to an allegation of soreness as a result of use of an illegal substance or device? All you have is a picture of increased heat at a site which may or may not mean increased blood flow. And no evidence at all of causation.

The CA King of Torts (Melvin Belli, RIP) was a major booster of thermography as proof positive of pain but not even he was able to sell the program consistently. And he had real, personal money on the line for himself and his clients.

It’s an interesting technology, but just “not ready for prime time.”

G.

We were wondering about who was sponsoring Celebration besides Pepsi and Ford. They have been secretive about disclosing that information to some who have asked. This article lists several sponsors:

http://www.tennessean.com/comments/article/20120521/NEWS21/305210017/Tennessee-Walking-Horse-celebration-keeps-most-sponsors

Read the comments below the article - there are several good ones.

I got this email from TWHBEA last Friday… it’s also posted on their website. (Even though I dropped my membership years ago due to disgust with the grotesque big lick events, they still routinely send me completely futile “we want you back” emails and news releases).

5/18/12

TWHBEA Clarifies Its Role In the Tennessee Walking Horse Industry

Lewisburg, TN - The Tennessee Walking Horse Breeders’ And Exhibitors’ Association (TWHBEA), first and foremost, is the official breed registry for the Tennessee Walking Horse. As such, TWHBEA’s primary responsibilities are to ensure that all Tennessee Walking Horses are properly registered and transferred, and to maintain the integrity of the registry. TWHBEA also publishes the official breed journal, Voice of the Tennessee Walking Horse. And, when finances allow, the Association works to promote the Tennessee Walking Horse and the breed registry around the world.

During difficult times, there is often a tendency to attribute, based on how other major breeds are organized, a certain level of overall authority to TWHBEA. However, the actual reality is that TWHBEA has NO authority over most areas of the breed, including the rules that govern horse shows, judging of horse shows, pre and post-show inspections and the licensing of Tennessee Walking Horse trainers. All of these areas are governed either by the various USDA certified horse industry organizations or by professional groups such as the Walking Horse Trainers’ Association, Walking Horse Owners’ Association, etc. TWHBEA’s rule-making and enforcement capabilities lie strictly in the area of the breed registry and the various marketing programs offered by the Association.

As the breed registry and oldest organization devoted to the Tennessee Walking Horse, TWHBEA is unequivocal in its stance that horse abuse should not be tolerated in any area of the breed. To that end, the Association is committed to working with all of the other Tennessee Walking Horse industry organizations to ensure the welfare of each and every horse.

Tennessee Walking Horse Breeders’ And Exhibitors’ Association
P.O. Box 286 • Lewisburg TN 37091
931-359-1574 • www.twhbea.com

Walking Horse Trainers’ Association
P.O. Box 61 • Shelbyville TN 37162
931-684-5866 • www.walkinghorsetrainers.com

Walking Horse Owners’ Association
P.O. Box 4007 • Murfreesboro TN 37129
615-494-8822 • www.walkinghorseowners.com

For further details or information, please contact (931) 359-1574

As the SNL church lady would say – “How CONVENIENT!”

Aarpaso, I totally agree with you about the owners being held/charged and prosecuted also.

Here. QUICK. Take the buck. The TWHBEA is as pure as the driven snow. Maybe thats the problem - they dont get enough snow down there.

Wow… had not seen this ‘news release’…

http://www.twhbea.com/association/contributors.php

A Call for Support

"…Due to decisions and events of the past several years, the time has now come to call on that inherent generosity to help conquer the many fiscal challenges facing the Tennessee Walking Horse Breeders’ and Exhibitors’ Association. These funds cannot possibly be made up in $60 membership fees, even over the next five to 10 years. Our goal is to restore our reserves to six month’s operating expenses ($900,000). The only way to accomplish this is through the generosity of the Tennessee Walking Horse community. If only half of our members (8,000 people) provide sponsorships of $100 each, our reserves would grow to $800,000.

The goal of TWHBEA is always to serve its membership through state of the art registry services with the utmost integrity, top-flight programs that showcase all facets of the Tennessee Walking Horse, educational opportunities for students of all ages, and promotional efforts that increase the market for our great breed. All of these goals are currently in jeopardy due to our tenuous financial situation…"

Sounds pretty desperate.

Surfin’ around I found this list of “a few bad apples”–probably all reformed by now…

http://acissearch.aphis.usda.gov/HPA/faces/pdf.jspx?rt=2&sd=&ed=&hio=ALL

Here is a partial list of Celebration sponsors-- This list was the work of a gentleman named Brian who had posted it under one of the articles in teh Tennessean. Thanks for your hard work, Brian.

Nost of these sponsors are local and horse industry dependent, but I guess it is worth an email or two.

"Brian P—You may register your displeasure directly on Facebook with the following sponsors of the Tennessee Walking Horse National Celebration (as I find more, I’ll update the list; understandably, there’s quite a few businesses being cowardly about their support and aren’t readily listed):

J. Jordan - https://www.facebook.com/​JJordanBoutiqueFashion.
Mark Pirtle Ford - http://www.facebook.com/​pages/​Pirtle-Mark-Ford-Mercury/​110609422335553?sk=info
Tennessee Farmers Co-Op - http://www.facebook.com/​TennesseeFarmersCooperative
Yearwood Equipment Co. - http://www.facebook.com/​YearwoodEquipmentCompany
Celebration Feeds - http://www.facebook.com/​pages/Celebration-Feeds/​162844353740282
Shelbyville Farm Center - http://www.facebook.com/​pages/​Shelbyville-Farm-Center/​132762836776664"

Well, McConnell will probably get “only a slap on the wrist”- by that I mean no jail time. I am surprised-- NOT!!!

You all do know that to end soring and the other atendant abuses, one REALLY doesn’t NEED the Federal government or even state or local government to “pass a law” against soring, or chains, pads, action devices, etc…

All that really needs to happen is that the people who make the horse show rules that are used at these shows need to buck up and prohibit the stacks of pads, heavy shoes with hoofbands and action devices in the show ring and on the show grounds.

If the show rules PROHIBIT something-- then you cannot do it---- A prime examble of this is how the horse show rules were changed to make sure that a horse HAD to wear stacks to be able to enter the “performance horse” classes of which the most important is the World Grand Championship Stake hald as the last class at every Celebration. This was done AFTER Champagne Watchout was shown in that class without the stack of pads and the action devices.

Anothe older example were the old limits and rules for the lite shod and the Plantation classes. (I’m using these as an example because I dont know the current rules since I don’t show and haven’t since 1990)

But, in my time, the show rules-- which were formulated by the old National Horse Show Regultory Committee-- stated that no horse showing in a light shod or Plantation class could wear a tail brace or any artificial switches, capts, etc. So, guess what? People didn’t try to go into the ring in THOSE classes with those things on their horses. They know if they did, they would be dismissed form the class and whould have wasted their entry fee.

These two flatshod classes also forbid the use of gag bits and of bits with shanks longer than 8 inches (if I remember correctly) So, naturally, no one tried to enter the ring in those classes with that equipment.

The rules also set forth the exact measurements for the shoes as far as width and thickness and prohibited hoofbands. They did specify that a lite shod horse could compete with the lighter shoe in the plantation class but NOT visa versa. I beleive they even specified that they shoes had to be made of iron, and stated that the shoes could not extend past the natural hoof walls-- anywhere even in the back.

The rules for the flat shod horses back then also specified that these horses could not be worked “with chains or action devices anywhere on the show grounds including aisles, practice rings or any other area.” It als meant that horses could not stand in their stalls with action devices on either.

And, again, no one went in those classes with shoes that could be challenged as being prohibited. No one put chains, rollers, collars or any action devices on their flatshod horses at the shows.

All that really has to happen is for the various HIO and SHOW and whoever else has jurisdiction over the Tennessee Walking Horse Shows (non-governmental groups, people) to get together and re-write their show regulations to prohibit the use of pads, heavy shoes (specify the acceptable nmeasurments, weights and metals) and action devices. Just prohibit the use of these things on show grounds, period.

They would need to agree than anyone caut using any soring method- chemical or mechanical- should be banned from showing and fined–and make those penalties stiff.

The TWHBEA’s board needs to meet and agree than anyone caught soring a horse whether -trainer-owner-or exhibitor- will face losing membership and its privilages, either for a set period of time-- or permanently depending on how serious they want to be about getting rid of the abuse and soring.

Really folks, it’s just that simple.

In the meantime, to help all those good folks realize it is in their best interests to get rid of all “that junk” in the show ring, we need to really contact anyone and everyone associated with the TWH show world and let them have an earful about how awful it is they have been allowing this abuse to go on for so long.

(There --now all you ASB people, Morgan people and what ever other breed fan and fans of theraputic pads-- you all can relax now.)

TWHBEA is on FB as well

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tennessee-Walking-Horse-Breeders-Exhibitors-Association/185845211426363?ref=ts

People are demanding change in the comments sections and there’s also a section asking for “recommendations,” so have at it, although it may fall on deaf ears.

[QUOTE=AlterNetReality;6329897]

  1. When did HSUS become a law enforcement branch?

It’s not. However, in this instance as a poster upthread has stated, it was involved in an undercover whistleblower investigation.

  1. Did they obtain a warrant to conceal their purpose?
  1. Did they obtain a warrant to film?
  2. Did they obtain a warrant to search and seize evidence?

Not being law enforcement or the county or federal prosecutor, there is no requirement for a warrant.

  1. Does publishing the video violate the right of due process?

No. It was not released by law enforcement or the county or federal prosecutor.

[Regardless of how big a jerk someone is, the following rights are constitutionally granted to ALL citizens of the United States:

Right of search and seizure regulated

The Constitution regulates behavior of the government.

Provisons concerning prosecution

Any tapes will be used as evidence, and those tapes can be used to start an investigation. Like when a parent videos a babysitter the parent thinks is abusing their child. Merely presenting the video doesn’t get the babysitter thrown in prison; there is a subsequent investigation which includes interviewing all parties involved. Then if the evidence is suficient a warrant is requested.

Right to a speedy trial, witnesses, etc.

Unless the defendent pleas out.

this man’s constitutional rights against unwarranted search and seizure have been violated by a non-governmental non-police agency

The Constitution regulates the behavior of the government. If this person feels a criminal act has been committed against him, he can seek redress through the federal or county prosecutor who will investigate whether a criminal action has taken place. If no criminal action has taken place, this person can seek redress through the civil courts.

who, by nationally publicizing the case, have also greatly hampered his right to a trial by an impartial jury.

Not at all. Casey Anthony had a trial hampered by national news. This is on a much smaller scale. Also, if there are no people fit to sit the jury in the jurisdiction, they can search farther afield by moving the trial location.

Disturbing precedent? Deeply.

Not so much to me. This is how whistleblowers and investigative reporters work.

sorry to rain on the parade

I think you asked raised some valid concerns.

The folks raining on the parade are the ones like me who mention our deep, deep mistrust of HSUS and are admonished not to shoot the messenger.

Mornin;

I attended Jackie’s hearing yesterday…here are a couple post hearing interviews

The gentleman in the background that also gets interviewed is Mr. David Howard…out nemesis back in 1999 and the power behind the scene of The Celebration

Channel 9

http://www.newschannel9.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_880.shtml#.T7w1DIpyd4A.email

Channel 3

http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/18582885/prominent-walking-horse-trainer-pleads-guilty-to-federal-charge

[QUOTE=CarrieK;6332011]

[QUOTE=AlterNetReality;6329897]

It’s not. However, in this instance as a poster upthread has stated, it was involved in an undercover whistleblower investigation.

Not being law enforcement or the county or federal prosecutor, there is no requirement for a warrant.

No. It was not released by law enforcement or the county or federal prosecutor.

The Constitution regulates behavior of the government.

Any tapes will be used as evidence, and those tapes can be used to start an investigation. Like when a parent videos a babysitter the parent thinks is abusing their child. Merely presenting the video doesn’t get the babysitter thrown in prison; there is a subsequent investigation which includes interviewing all parties involved. Then if the evidence is suficient a warrant is requested.

Unless the defendent pleas out.

The Constitution regulates the behavior of the government. If this person feels a criminal act has been committed against him, he can seek redress through the federal or county prosecutor who will investigate whether a criminal action has taken place. If no criminal action has taken place, this person can seek redress through the civil courts.

Not at all. Casey Anthony had a trial hampered by national news. This is on a much smaller scale. Also, if there are no people fit to sit the jury in the jurisdiction, they can search farther afield by moving the trial location.

Not so much to me. This is how whistleblowers and investigative reporters work.

I think you asked raised some valid concerns.

The folks raining on the parade are the ones like me who mention our deep, deep mistrust of HSUS and are admonished not to shoot the messenger.[/QUOTE]

Well stated comments.

G.

[QUOTE=CarrieK;6332011]

[QUOTE=AlterNetReality;6329897]

It’s not. However, in this instance as a poster upthread has stated, it was involved in an undercover whistleblower investigation.

Not being law enforcement or the county or federal prosecutor, there is no requirement for a warrant.

No. It was not released by law enforcement or the county or federal prosecutor.

The Constitution regulates behavior of the government.

Any tapes will be used as evidence, and those tapes can be used to start an investigation. Like when a parent videos a babysitter the parent thinks is abusing their child. Merely presenting the video doesn’t get the babysitter thrown in prison; there is a subsequent investigation which includes interviewing all parties involved. Then if the evidence is suficient a warrant is requested.

Unless the defendent pleas out.

The Constitution regulates the behavior of the government. If this person feels a criminal act has been committed against him, he can seek redress through the federal or county prosecutor who will investigate whether a criminal action has taken place. If no criminal action has taken place, this person can seek redress through the civil courts.

Not at all. Casey Anthony had a trial hampered by national news. This is on a much smaller scale. Also, if there are no people fit to sit the jury in the jurisdiction, they can search farther afield by moving the trial location.

Not so much to me. This is how whistleblowers and investigative reporters work.

I think you asked raised some valid concerns.

The folks raining on the parade are the ones like me who mention our deep, deep mistrust of HSUS and are admonished not to shoot the messenger.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Guilherme;6332116][QUOTE=CarrieK;6332011]

Well stated comments.

G.[/QUOTE]

Again, thank you both.

For the record, it is not only the “transportation” of a sored horse that gets you on the radar:

The Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service
(APHIS) of the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA)
enforces the Horse Protection Act (HPA). The HPA
is a Federal law that prohibits horses subjected to
a practice called soring from participating in shows,
sales, exhibitions, or auctions.
The HPA also prohibits
drivers from transporting sored horses to or from any
of these events. APHIS works actively with the horse
industry to protect against such abuse and ensure that
only sound and healthy horses participate in shows.
Our ultimate goal is to end this inhumane practice
completely.

And YES!!! It IS only the non-trotting (gaited) SHOW HORSE that is sored! How they are shod is as well specifically regulated. One day soon - they will impose real limits on the stacks and eliminate the chains.

A simple pamphlet on the matter here: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/publications/animal_welfare/content/printable_version/HPA_08.pdf

ANd the green grease??? It is to prevent sores on the pasterns from the banging chains. IMO they should outlaw “the grease” as well.

[QUOTE=The Preacher;6332105]
Mornin;

I attended Jackie’s hearing yesterday…here are a couple post hearing interviews

The gentleman in the background that also gets interviewed is Mr. David Howard…out nemesis back in 1999 and the power behind the scene of The Celebration

Channel 9

http://www.newschannel9.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_880.shtml#.T7w1DIpyd4A.email

Channel 3

http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/18582885/prominent-walking-horse-trainer-pleads-guilty-to-federal-charge[/QUOTE]

You da man! I am so glad they continue to tip their hat in respect and regard for what you so politely and with great fortitude continue to do. While the guy in the background can only try and defend the indefensible. Great contrast in character between you and him.

I am glad to be on your side!

GET RID OF THE ACTION DEVICES!!! PUT LIMITS ON PADS, SHOES AND GREASE!!! GET THE CHAINS OUT OF THE SHOW RING!!!

It is a sored and sorried bunch of creeps that own this registry. Not at all what the true founders of the breed intended at all. No, not at all.

If applying an irritating topical application to a horse’s leg to increase skin sensitivity so as to change a horse’s movement is the definition you use for “soring”, then NO!!! gaited show horses are NOT the only horses this cruel process is used on.

[QUOTE=lifesabreeze;6332147]
If applying an irritating topical application to a horse’s leg to increase skin sensitivity so as to change a horse’s movement is the definition you use as to “soring”, then NO!!! gaited show horses are NOT the only horses this cruel process is used on.[/QUOTE]

SO they sore the hundreds of racing horses hanging out in pastures?

Is that why they act like they don’t want sex?

So does this mean Mr. Howard has had a change of heart? He’s saying the abuse is rampant, and we all know that it is. Does this mean the Celebration is going to prohibit stacks and soring? I’m confused.

[QUOTE=hurleycane;6332152]
SO they sore the hundreds of racing horses hanging out in pastures?

Is that why they act like they don’t want sex?[/QUOTE]

racing horses? sex? what???