Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=mayhew;6333946]
So when did soring begin?[/QUOTE]

Mid-1950s, more or less.

In 1951, '52, and '53 a horse named Talk of the Town was World Grand Champion. Here’s an interesting history:

http://www.walkerswest.com/Champs/TheTalkOfTheTown.htm

ToftT wore a heavy shoe but no other action devices. He did what he did because of his genetics (probably more than his training). But to compete against him other trainers reached into the ASB world and imported the stacks, chains, etc. that had long been used there. Eventually they took the view that “anything worth doing is worth overdoing.” While this is funny on Mythbusters for Walkers it turned tragic as trainers learned that infliction of pain with chemicals and mechanical devices could substitute for breeding, conditioning, and training. The rest, as they say, is history.

G.

[pony4me]

I’m very torn on the issue of how to fix this. On one hand, it seems like the best way for this to happen is for the TWH industry to make sensible rules and enforce them. And a part of me is thinking “that will happen when pigs fly.” As for yanking the papers of sored horses so they can’t compete; what will happen to those horses? If some scumbag is ok with soring, he/she will be just as ok with dumping them at an auction.

It would be great if the Big Lick just went away, but with all of the money, power and corruption associated with it, I don’t think that will happen without a lot of outside “influence” and the feds have proved that they are not up to the task.

And I was very concerned that my DH posted a facebook status update saying he would not attend the Celebration, and urging his fb friends to not attend. Within six hours, facebook had deleted his status. Poof! Wonder how the hell that happened?

Seems like one hell of an uphill battle. Sigh.

[katarine]

I don’t fully understand the desire to assert that I am fear mongering when I am patiently and fully explaining the layers of the onion.

I would suggest that the bulk of the numbers of HPA violations are legitimate, but many of them, I don’t know how many, are not legitimate.

Wasn’t it Mythlius in Hong Kong that tested positive for an very minute amount, so amount as to be potentially, or likely to be, incidental, ‘banned’ substance? So depending on who you ask, he was drugged. Or he wasn’t. That is what I am trying to say, dispassionately and calmly. I don’t even own a horse that competes in any of these HIOs. I’ve catch ridden for some sound horse owners, and I know a little about the industry. I am not ‘so lazy that I can’t read the rules’, that’s just ugly talk to make someone puff up, LOL. I don’t imagine that anyone typically studies shampoo bottles before going to a one day H/J show, A rated or not. Shampoo is shampoo, fly spray is fly spray. That’s just me saying SOME of those tickets are bogus. Like Mythlius’ issue or non issue may be bogus. Stop hating me and listen to what I am dispassionately saying. and YES, horses have gotten tickets because the chain was a legal weight when clean, then .1, not 1.0, but 0.1 over the legal limit once soiled by heavy wet sand in the show arena. that is the God’s honest truth, it was legal until the horse showed on a rainy night in an outdoor pen, then it wasn’t legal and he got a ticket. Again, I don’t know how often that has happened, but it does happen. That is what I am saying, trying to educate on the layers of the Onion regarding the number of tickets.

Don’t want to actually know some of the nuances, you may feel free to skip my posts. I’ll be catch riding some more TWHs later this month, I’m interested to see how it’s changed if at all, since I last did so, last Fall.

I love TWHs, I own three, I show one in gaited dressage. I don’t wish to defend, blow smoke, exaggerate, or otherwise mislead. I’m just peeling the onion. Facts and details are interesting to me, and maybe to some others who are reading.

[WalkInTheWoods]

[QUOTE=Gnalli;6333915]
Not really. There are a whole lot of black trainers over the years. The gaited horse world does not limit itself to only whites. It was however the first time a child had ridden in that class.[/QUOTE]

When i said groundbreaking i was refering to the whole situation - police escorts and protection and all that went on.

[subk]

[QUOTE=pony4me;6333857]
Reader comments regarding the article are generally of the “too little, too late” variety, and that taking one person down will not solve the problems.

The Nashville Tennessean seems to be pretty vocal about the situation. It’s a Gannett newspaper, and the company owns other newspapers in the state. It will be interesting to see if the Tennessean’s anti-soring stance is supported by other Gannett newspapers.[/QUOTE]
This has been the trend locally (local as in Nashville and the more suburban surround) for quite a while. 20 and 30 years ago when I lived in Nashville proper I was regularly invited to the Celebration or at least knew people who went. (Would not go even back in the 70s as my brother worked for the TN Ag. Dept and I already knew too much.) Today no one–not a single person I know either goes or will admit to going. In the early days of the TWH industry the elite of Nashville society had some involvement and many made the hour trek for the Celebration, but now equine involvement by this group would be mostly limited to H/J, Foxhunting and polo. (Where it was always strong anyway.)

Maybe it was about 10 years ago that there was a huge judging scandal the Tennessean covered extensively and I think that was the last straw for public opinion. The paper was not at all kind to the industry and hasn’t been since.

[Gnalli]

[

[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6333986]
When i said groundbreaking i was refering to the whole situation - police escorts and protection and all that went on.[/QUOTE]

Oh, GOTCHA. That makes sense.

[Guilherme]

A DQP is a form of cop. He is there to examine an animal and apply a set of rules. He sees a lot of horses in a short period of time. It can hot work. He’s not a “favorite” of anybody. He’s not the Pope; he’s not infallible.

If a person feels a citation is in error then there is a hearing procedure they can follow and an appeal from the hearing if they don’t like that decision. These things don’t guarantee 100% perfection of result. They don’t have to. They do have to meet the Constitutional requirements of Due Process of Law. And they do.

If there were no miscreants on the world we wounldn’t need cops. But there are, and we do. Cops are human with all that THAT entails.

G.

[mayhew]

Thanks, Guilherme!

[aarpaso]

My MY seems good ole boy jackie McConnell,has made a deal with the CEO of the Celebration, get under the bus Jackie,best take May and Dockery with ya oh and that other guy Abernathy.they all need to be ban along with Privet and McGowan .

this is a step in the right direction but not far enough.

[katarine]

[QUOTE=Guilherme;6334000]
A DQP is a form of cop. He is there to examine an animal and apply a set of rules. He sees a lot of horses in a short period of time. It can hot work. He’s not a “favorite” of anybody. He’s not the Pope; he’s not infallible.

If a person feels a citation is in error then there is a hearing procedure they can follow and an appeal from the hearing if they don’t like that decision. These things don’t guarantee 100% perfection of result. They don’t have to. They do have to meet the Constitutional requirements of Due Process of Law. And they do.

If there were no miscreants on the world we wounldn’t need cops. But there are, and we do. Cops are human with all that THAT entails.

G.[/QUOTE]

Completely agree. Most cops won’t bother with 56 in a 55. Some will. So goes the way of humans

[sadri121]

First, I want to post this announcement from the National Walking Horse Association (NWHA). I want everyone to understand that NWHA is FOR THE HORSE. They have 100% sound shows with true, fair judging and impartial, concise DQPs. Yes they have had internal issues in the past year, but those issues are getting ironed out and the association is going to be just fine (unlike other HIOs that let abuse happen and play favoritism to the known sorers). We at FTTWH fully support NWHA, FOSH and the IWHA in their pursuit to continue to have sound shows and keep the sorers out. Here’s NWHA’s announcement concerning the video and the McConnell case.

[WalkInTheWoods]

Common sense is becoming a rare commodity. If i had a horse whose chains passed inspection on the way into the ring and didnt pass on the way out, i would go ballistic and fight that. (will never have chains on my trail horse, but just sayin). Why not have a bucket of water there - dip, shake, blot, weigh, in case the chains got mysteriously heavy. Kind of a no-brainer - what am i missing ?

[subk]

[QUOTE=pony4me;6333978]
…and the feds have proved that they are not up to the task.[/QUOTE]
And WHY exactly is it the Federal Government’s job to regulate a horse show industry? Why does my tax money go to make sure these people are following the rules? In the TWHSA mission statement one of the first points is to “Provide shows and exhibitors with DQP inspection services that are in compliance with the Horse Protection Act.” Are there any other horse sports that has compliance with federal law in their damn mission statement?!

The first point in the TWHSA rule book concerning violation and jurisdiction is that they don’t take any responsibilty for jurisdiction for violation of the HPA. Maybe if you want to change things you put the governing body on the hook. Your venue, your show, your judges, you hired the DQP, if there is a horse participating that violates federal law your ass shares in the punishment.

You can’t win by making simply changing the rules. You can only stop this by making them WANT to stop it. If the TWHSA is going to be held accountable then that may be enough incentive for change.

[hurleycane]

[QUOTE=aarpaso;6334010]
My MY seems good ole boy jackie McConnell,has made a deal with the CEO of the Celebration, get under the bus Jackie,best take May and Dockery with ya oh and that other guy Abernathy.they all need to be ban along with Privet and McGowan .

this is a step in the right direction but not far enough.[/QUOTE]

Yes. All the associations need to ban him from membership AND attendence at any events. INcluding TWHBEA.

[katarine]

[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6334036]
Common sense is becoming a rare commodity. If i had a horse whose chains passed inspection on the way into the ring and didnt pass on the way out, i would go ballistic and fight that. (will never have chains on my trail horse, but just sayin). Why not have a bucket of water there - dip, shake, blot, weigh, in case the chains got mysteriously heavy. Kind of a no-brainer - what am i missing ?[/QUOTE]

That’s just not done. They take it off the horse, and weigh it.

[hurleycane]

And Yes. Make the associations responsibile for what they allow their members to do.

[WalkInTheWoods]

sadri - i was at the NWHA site clicking around a little while ago. I remember when they duked it out with the TWHBEA re: intellectual property of registration information. The TWHBEA having to pay the big bucks lawyers, plus ppl boycotting them put a dent in their coffers. Good for NWHA !.

[katarine]

[QUOTE=subk;6334038]
And WHY exactly is it the Federal Government’s job to regulate a horse show industry? Why does my tax money go to make sure these people are following the rules? In the TWHSA mission statement one of the first points is to “Provide shows and exhibitors with DQP inspection services that are in compliance with the Horse Protection Act.” Are there any other horse sports that has compliance with federal law in their damn mission statement?!

The first point in the TWHSA rule book concerning violation and jurisdiction is that they don’t take any responsibilty for jurisdiction for violation of the HPA. Maybe if you want to change things you put the governing body on the hook. Your venue, your show, your judges, you hired the DQP, if there is a horse participating that violates federal law your ass shares in the punishment.

You can’t win by making simply changing the rules. You can only stop this by making them WANT to stop it. If the TWHSA is going to be held accountable then that may be enough incentive for change.[/QUOTE]

TWHBEA. There is no such thing as TWHSA. Unless you like Japanese porn. I’ll kindly not call you lazy for the mistake

[hurleycane]

[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6334049]
sadri - i was at the NWHA site clicking around a little while ago. I remember when they duked it out with the TWHBEA re: intellectual property of registration information. The TWHBEA having to pay the big bucks lawyers, plus ppl boycotting them put a dent in their coffers. Good for NWHA !.[/QUOTE]

I second the yea! for NWHA!

[WalkInTheWoods]

[QUOTE=katarine;6334050]
TWHBEA. There is no such thing as TWHSA. Unless you like Japanese porn. I’ll kindly not call you lazy for the mistake ;)[/QUOTE]

now thats funny - careful where you click - i wonder if anyone reported the broken link