I don’t think it’s broken. The TWHSA…doesn’t exist so far as I know.
Want to contact the TWH Breeders and Exhibitors Association? Go to their website.
[QUOTE=enjoytheride;6333854]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbZH3IbosI8
The evolution of the TWH[/QUOTE]
Very interesting…looks like it fell off the tracks in the 60’s.
They look good until about mid-50’s. At that point they are OBVIOUSLY in a great deal of pain. It’s disturbing that people will do this to a horse, and that it’s still an issue today. I hope this finally gets eradicated.
I grew up in TN with horses. I’m glad I was never exposed to this as a child.
Such a pretty breed naturally. There’s nothing pretty about that exaggerated, painful gait.
I don’t like the pads, chains, soring, any of it. (Pads only for medical reasons.)
Is anybody aware of any petitions going around so we can make our voices heard?
[QUOTE=Jealoushe;6321183]
I want to beat that man over the head with a bat like he does to his horses…[/QUOTE]
You will have to stand in line…and bring your own bat:mad:
[QUOTE=katarine;6334050]
TWHBEA. There is no such thing as TWHSA. Unless you like Japanese porn. I’ll kindly not call you lazy for the mistake ;)[/QUOTE]
I can’t tell you how relieved I am that someone who has actually been involved in this mess of sport will KINDLY not call me lazy because I’m not updated on an issue that I would love nothing more than not to have to be informed on.
Let me explain something. I consider every person to have ever spent a penny on an entry fee for a TWH show and accessory to this atrocity. It was the mid 70s when I first heard about some $h!t head cutting out the frog of TWH, replacing it with a golf ball and padding over it. This latest event is not a surprise to anyone. Why in the WORLD would any decent human being want any association with a sport that decade after decade after decade let’s this crap happen? I resent that people I know are calling ME to get some understanding of what is going on because I am local and I “do horses” so therefore must have some connection to these despicable people. I resent every second I’ve had to spend trying to keep myself informed when I’ve got better things I’d rather do with my time than fielding questions about this sickness.
I’m bone tired of the whining about how hard it is to follow the rules. Stop complaining about dealing with a forbidden substance list, if the sport wasn’t so crooked it wouldn’t need the list and and if it’s such a challenge go do something else. Stop sounding like a third grader on the play ground by saying that DQP doesn’t like you and has it in for you. Buy a clue and figure out that if something gets muddy it’s going to weigh more than when its not muddy. God forbid you actually take the chains off if there could be a problem with making weight. I’ve been hauling horses for 40 years, jumping them, and riding them in the open and NEVER not once have I had a horse get a bump or mark on the back of their pasterns that could ever in anyone’s imagination be confused with a soring mark or scar. We hear these excuses every time something happens and they are simply stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid. The rules are a pain to deal with but nothing like the pain this sport inflicts on horses year after year.
It’s time to kill the baby and throw it, the bath water and the tub away.
[QUOTE=subk;6334150]
I can’t tell you how relieved I am that someone who has actually been involved in this mess of sport will KINDLY not call me lazy because I’m not updated on an issue that I would love nothing more than not to have to be informed on.
Let me explain something. I consider every person to have ever spent a penny on an entry fee for a TWH show and accessory to this atrocity. It was the mid 70s when I first heard about some $h!t head cutting out the frog of TWH, replacing it with a golf ball and padding over it. This latest event is not a surprise to anyone. Why in the WORLD would any decent human being want any association with a sport that decade after decade after decade let’s this crap happen? I resent that people I know are calling ME to get some understanding of what is going on because I am local and I “do horses” so therefore must have some connection to these despicable people. I resent every second I’ve had to spend trying to keep myself informed when I’ve got better things I’d rather do with my time than fielding questions about this sickness.
I’m bone tired of the whining about how hard it is to follow the rules. Stop complaining about dealing with a forbidden substance list, if the sport wasn’t so crooked it wouldn’t need the list and and if it’s such a challenge go do something else. Stop sounding like a third grader on the play ground by saying that DQP doesn’t like you and has it in for you. Buy a clue and figure out that if something gets muddy it’s going to weigh more than when its not muddy. God forbid you actually take the chains off if there could be a problem with making weight. I’ve been hauling horses for 40 years, jumping them, and riding them in the open and NEVER not once have I had a horse get a bump or mark on the back of their pasterns that could ever in anyone’s imagination be confused with a soring mark or scar. We hear these excuses every time something happens and they are simply stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid. The rules are a pain to deal with but nothing like the pain this sport inflicts on horses year after year.
It’s time to kill the baby and throw it, the bath water and the tub away.[/QUOTE]
I agree. And if the weight of the chain getting heavier when muddy is an issue, then they logically would use a lighter chain then allowed on muddy days…or better yet…no chains.
It’s like the excuse the H/J trainers use when caught violating the drugging rules…“The groom must have mistakenly gave the grain/drug to the wrong horse”
[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6334036]
Common sense is becoming a rare commodity. If i had a horse whose chains passed inspection on the way into the ring and didnt pass on the way out, i would go ballistic and fight that. (will never have chains on my trail horse, but just sayin). Why not have a bucket of water there - dip, shake, blot, weigh, in case the chains got mysteriously heavy. Kind of a no-brainer - what am i missing ?[/QUOTE]
Possibly that the chains did not cause pain going in because of “freezing” the coronary band area with short-acting medication. It’s designed to get through the in-gate inspection and play “gutts ball” with the out-gate inspection.
Remember that folks who do this are, by definition, rule violators and risk takers. They consider a “citation” just a cost of doing business.
G.
[QUOTE=subk;6334150]
It’s time to kill the baby and throw it, the bath water and the tub away.[/QUOTE]
I agree. Enough. It’s time.
I regret I ever thought there was a chance they could clean up this act.
Eliminate padded performance and go from there.
that’s what I was thinking. The '70’s show lots of high knee action and sthe start of the crawl behind.
in answer to post 868
this is the rub, the associations live in a world of their own were the money and who has it rule,if you check the owners of most -now i said most sored horses caught are owned by money,wether a group or a doctor or auto dealers.only the tru kind and lovers of the breed will walk away from the TWHBEA as they did in the past, leaving the money holding abusers to run the show.will this hurt maybe but the cheaters will just step up with more MONEY,buy more of the DQP’s at small shows on their way to the celebration.
one of the best ways to stop this kind of abuse is keep it in the public eye,don’t let this issue die.talking here is great but are you sharing this with your family and friend.the PTA,your bridge club,the barber anybody that will hear the cry for the SORED WALKING HORSE,only by doing this will we give the TWHBEA a BIG BLACK EYE and the World will see. yes the world,The TWH is one of the new breeds of Europe along with the AQH.
You are a much better person than I am. Hands down.
The thing I ask is, is this heavy dark cloud over each of them because they are sorry and remorseful for what they did, torturing and abusing those beautiful innocent animals for their own gain… or is that heavy dark cloud over each of them because they got caught?
In the news story they showed a woman who, if I remember correctly used to be involved in this and then realized what a horrible person she had become and that this was abuse… and now she rides Dressage or Gaited Dressage? Her horse was lovely and looked healthy and happy, I just wish she would wear a helmet, especially considering it appears she has a young daughter she must love and would not want to have to bury her or feed her through a tube and change her diapers… but it’s not illegal not to, and I digress…
If McConnell and these other people were coming forward on their own with their hats in their hands suggesting they had seen the light and were changing their ways, I would be all for ‘forgiving’, … but if that video had not come to light, I believe, that man and his cohorts would be in that same barn this morning doing those same abusive, abhorrent things to those animals. And that will never be acceptable, or forgive-able.
Subk, my comment about the feds not being up to the task was based on the fact that the HPA is a federal statute. McConnell was at first charge (this time) with 52 violations, which were plea bargained down to one (1) count, and then the federal judge accepted the plea bargain, and recommended probation. Sentencing hearing is in September.
The feds enforce the HPA. I agree they shouldn’t be running horse shows.
hmm… I was looking at the walkerswest “ancestors” page and it looks earlier than that to me - the last ones on that page that look “normal” to me are from the 40s.
Would someone who knows where to look for the information please make a list of the dozen or so horses named in the indictment, figure out who their owners, riders, etc. are/were during the incident cited and then please post that information here? Or at the very least PM me with it.
I also heard mention earlier that there was a Political Action Committee (PAC) that some WH association ran to give donations to politicians. Can anyone confirm that and get me some information on it?
One more thing. I need a list of whoever sits in leadership positions of the TWHBEA with notations as to which ones have records of any kind of rule violations, suspensions or run ins with the USDA and the nature of those incidents.
I happen to be hosting a political fundraiser in my home in the next month, several elected state officials from Middle Tn may be in attendance. It would be nice to have my facts correct…
[QUOTE=subk;6334150]
I’ve been hauling horses for 40 years, jumping them, and riding them in the open and NEVER not once have I had a horse get a bump or mark on the back of their pasterns that could ever in anyone’s imagination be confused with a soring mark or scar. [/QUOTE]
You might want to speak with McLain Ward about his experiences in the 2010 World Cup
[QUOTE=The Preacher;6333447]
Drove the 100 miles South to Chattanooga and the Federal Court house, did not completely understand the procedures’ of the day, but I just wanted to see and hear it first hand for myself, way to many “Speculations”
Got there early, first in the courtroom we sat on the front row, (can’t hear well out of one of my ears) I sat next to the aisle and Jennie, Rebekah and Jackson decided to take the other end of the bench.
Just before commencement, they escorted a African-American I had never seen before shackled in jail orange jumpsuit and sat him down. I later found out he was a co-defendant in this matter. (After the hearing we asked why was the only African-American of the three… in jail and the others free? We were informed he did not show up to his probation officer and they went out and nabbed his butt., and in jail he sits)
Jackie and his wife walked in from the left and behind me, he ushered her pass me on the same row I was on and he sat down next to me…I said hi and shook his hand, gave him a reassuring pat on his knee. (By the way, my 3 year old grandson Jackson aka Jet, played back and forth between his mother and I, with Mrs. McConnell in-between, she smile at him and played with him…a person I feel I would like to hang out with…she seemed very nice to me.)
Listen folks, you and I, I know are gonna differ on this next piece.
It is my long held belief that you can absolutely hate, despise and condemn a person’s behavior but not necessarily hate the person, I won’t apologize for this feeling, I learned it early in life and have found it to work well for me.
Many an enemy has later became good friends because of this attitude.
Mr. McConnell, Mr. Mayes and Mr. Abernathy have not done anything to me or mine personally…Do I hate what they did? A resounding YES!.Is it high crime enough for me to hate them and wish the worse plague on them…not for me…otherwise there would be no such words in our language as rehabilitation, reform, life change mercy, or forgiveness.
Are my hands clean in life? ~~~~NO, in no sense of the word, which prompted me to think this way.
I studied all of these men’s faces, posture, affect and sensed great and heavy realization of impending doom on each one of them. There was a heavy dark cloud over each of them, it was palpable~~~~ sure, being in the jackpot they are in may have fueled that…but who cares what fuels it as long as we get “change”
I come to understand that this was a Plea Bargaining Hearing, all three have reversed their previous not guilty pleas and now want to plead guilty for a reduced sentence.
The judge took his time and was very thorough, as he went through the proceedings line by line. I was not prepared to take notes and ended up scribbling notes all over my crossword puzzle.
All three pleaded guilty to one count, a misdemeanor of conspiracy to hauling, delivering, or conveying a horse(s) which they knew was intentionally sored, in violation of the Federal 1970 Horse Protection Act (HPA) and attempted or did exhibit a horse(s) which they knew was intentionally sored. This single charge which they plea bargained carries a maximum 1year confinement in Federal Prison and a fine of $3,000.00
Mr. McConnell also had 1 felony count which entailed charges that went by me faster than I could write it down, but the penalty was the maximum of 5 years imprisonment in Federal Prison and/or $250.000.00…
There is no early release in Federal Prisons, you serve every day of your sentence.
Now here’s the rub in that…there was a special provision presented by The prosecution that even the judge said a couple times was very unusual and non-traditional.
But the rub is this…
It allows Mr. McConnell to serve probation on all charges brought against him.
Easy easy, now…there is a caveat~~~
The U.S. District Court Judge Sandy Mattice who this judge today was standing in for, DOES NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT THE PLEA BARGIN ON ANY OF THEM! And can throw the book dat them all if she/he (?) wants too.
So what does that mean to us?..The sentencing is September 10, 2012 we have a couple of options…
1). We can all marshal all our resources and overwhelm The Honorable Judge Mattice with
“The People’s Desires”
OR[/QUOTE]
Well Preacher, you are indeed a better person than I. I would volunteer quickly to use some good 'ole Southern Redneck justice! EEEWWW!!!
[QUOTE=walknsound;6334425]
Well Preacher, you are indeed a better person than I. I would volunteer quickly to use some good 'ole Southern Redneck justice! EEEWWW!!![/QUOTE]
I have to say me, too. It turns my stomach that this man will probably just get a slap on his little torturing hand.
He needs to serve some real time because he deserves it and as an example to others.
[QUOTE=The Preacher;6333447]
Drove the 100 miles South to Chattanooga and the Federal Court house, did not completely understand the procedures’ of the day, but I just wanted to see and hear it first hand for myself, way to many “Speculations”
Got there early, first in the courtroom we sat on the front row, (can’t hear well out of one of my ears) I sat next to the aisle and Jennie, Rebekah and Jackson decided to take the other end of the bench.
Just before commencement, they escorted a African-American I had never seen before shackled in jail orange jumpsuit and sat him down. I later found out he was a co-defendant in this matter. (After the hearing we asked why was the only African-American of the three… in jail and the others free? We were informed he did not show up to his probation officer and they went out and nabbed his butt., and in jail he sits)
Jackie and his wife walked in from the left and behind me, he ushered her pass me on the same row I was on and he sat down next to me…I said hi and shook his hand, gave him a reassuring pat on his knee. (By the way, my 3 year old grandson Jackson aka Jet, played back and forth between his mother and I, with Mrs. McConnell in-between, she smile at him and played with him…a person I feel I would like to hang out with…she seemed very nice to me.)
Listen folks, you and I, I know are gonna differ on this next piece.
It is my long held belief that you can absolutely hate, despise and condemn a person’s behavior but not necessarily hate the person, I won’t apologize for this feeling, I learned it early in life and have found it to work well for me.
Many an enemy has later became good friends because of this attitude.
Mr. McConnell, Mr. Mayes and Mr. Abernathy have not done anything to me or mine personally…Do I hate what they did? A resounding YES!.Is it high crime enough for me to hate them and wish the worse plague on them…not for me…otherwise there would be no such words in our language as rehabilitation, reform, life change mercy, or forgiveness.
Are my hands clean in life? ~~~~NO, in no sense of the word, which prompted me to think this way.
I studied all of these men’s faces, posture, affect and sensed great and heavy realization of impending doom on each one of them. There was a heavy dark cloud over each of them, it was palpable~~~~ sure, being in the jackpot they are in may have fueled that…but who cares what fuels it as long as we get “change”
I come to understand that this was a Plea Bargaining Hearing, all three have reversed their previous not guilty pleas and now want to plead guilty for a reduced sentence.
The judge took his time and was very thorough, as he went through the proceedings line by line. I was not prepared to take notes and ended up scribbling notes all over my crossword puzzle.
All three pleaded guilty to one count, a misdemeanor of conspiracy to hauling, delivering, or conveying a horse(s) which they knew was intentionally sored, in violation of the Federal 1970 Horse Protection Act (HPA) and attempted or did exhibit a horse(s) which they knew was intentionally sored. This single charge which they plea bargained carries a maximum 1year confinement in Federal Prison and a fine of $3,000.00
Mr. McConnell also had 1 felony count which entailed charges that went by me faster than I could write it down, but the penalty was the maximum of 5 years imprisonment in Federal Prison and/or $250.000.00…
There is no early release in Federal Prisons, you serve every day of your sentence.
Now here’s the rub in that…there was a special provision presented by The prosecution that even the judge said a couple times was very unusual and non-traditional.
But the rub is this…
It allows Mr. McConnell to serve probation on all charges brought against him.
Easy easy, now…there is a caveat~~~
The U.S. District Court Judge Sandy Mattice who this judge today was standing in for, DOES NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT THE PLEA BARGIN ON ANY OF THEM! And can throw the book dat them all if she/he (?) wants too.
So what does that mean to us?..The sentencing is September 10, 2012 we have a couple of options…
1). We can all marshal all our resources and overwhelm The Honorable Judge Mattice with
“The People’s Desires”
OR[/QUOTE]
Thank you for this insight and report.
I think the adage that says we should keep our friends close and our enemies closer rings true. And just in case there is room for change in their thinking, they may look to you. I respect you for it. I couldn’t do it, but I have the utmost respect for your inner strength and fortitude. I would have been kicked out of that courtroom in a hot minute. I have imagined horrible things I’d do to these people if I was ever in a room with them…I can’t imagine someone who abuses a horse could be good to children. I really don’t understand the psychology of abusers so all I can afford is hate and contempt. Again, Preacher, you are a much stronger person than me.
You should contact the “For the TWH Blog” to gather such information. You either do, or do not, want to know, want to be involved, want to get to the bottom of it, or not. From your earlier post you are sick to death of TWHs and would rather not know, rather not be called, rather not be informed.
If you do want to know, I’ve told you where to look.
subk - this is a start
Gateway to sign in to see the alphabetical list of HPA violators maintained by FOSH. You will have to provide an email address to sign in and see this list.
http://www.hpadata.us/
Ty Irby and Wayne Dean are on the list in Tennessee
Here is the complete list
http://www.twhbea.com/association/bod.php
and DO go to the For The TWH blog as katerine said - they will help you
