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Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

Off Course
#921

UPDATE!!!

May be our last chance we have any power to make a real difference…

Its been one week ``` people have viewed the videos presented by several TV Stations, news reports newspapers, from several states, it has traveled around the world and back…

People have expressed their outrage, have expressed their opinions of disgust and anger.

The number of people looking in on this situation and responding has never been so high…ever!

So what are we goanna do now?

Who has contacted their state’s representative, to enact a law to ban Pads and Action Devices from the Tennessee Walking Horse Breed?

Who has contacted The Celebrations sponsors?

Are you now satisfied with where things are?

Here where YOU CAN MAKE THE DIFFERENCE

The Sentencing District Federal Judge does not have to accept the plea bargain of probation,

If he wanted to he could deny the prosecution’s writ to offer him probation for pleading guilt to one count of illegal paper work and transporting horse(s) who he knew were intentionally sored, and exhibiting horse(s) when he knew the horse(s) were intentionally sored

HE DOES NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT THE PLEA BARGAIN!!!

There it is…our last shot at sending a message to the trainers all the way down to the grooms that if you sore a horse you go to jail, Federal prison…and federal Prison has no early release…you serve every day of your sentence

I want to take the high road on this I do not want to hate the men involved, nor do I want to see anyone’s life destroyed…

Is probation a just sentence for these men? Who here says “yea, that’s enough”?

re these sentences a big enough deterrent to shut down and stop the Abuse, Soring and Corruption?

The Padded Horse side says that this like every other push to stop them in the past…all will blow over and they will go back to business as usual, they will just be more careful who they let around their training facilities.

Do you have the energy left to perform just one more task on behalf of the horse of the present and the future?

Can you write or call, even both…the presiding judge on this case and ask him to deny the plea bargain on Mr. McConnell and sentence him to do some time.?

That is if you feel probation is not enough.

Share this one last thing you have awesomely shared everything with all your friends …all they have to do is highlight, copy and paste the judge’s email into their email to box and drop him a note expressing your desires

Would you do that? You have that power to make a change in the way trainer’s, owners and grounds people will look at and treat the horse from this day forth…you…from your chair…can impact the future for these horses…

We have until September 10, 2012 9:00am est before the sentencing hearing… think we can influence the judge’s decision ?

Harry S. Mattice, Jr. United States District Judge
900 Georgia Avenue, Room 104
Chattanooga, TN 37402
Phone: (423) 752-5184
mattice_chambers@tned.uscourts.gov

#922

In looking for celebs, I’d nominate Carson Kressley, who does saddlebreds–and who is always very outspoken. One could mention that the charges could have the tendency to rub off onto the saddlebreds, unless someone damns the TWs and refutes the SBs.

I found this web site:
http://www.carsonkressley.com/bio.html

OT: Since he lives in NYC, maybe he would like a guided tour of the carriage horses, too.

#923

[QUOTE=Fairfax;6335334]
Mr. Shatner has never owned TWH’s.

He has only owned American Saddlebreds and has never approved of any abuse for them or any other animal.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, I thought he had TWH’s

#924

Tail set.

http://www.freedmanharness.com/freedmanharness/freedmanstailsetwithdruryspatterncrupper.htm

They’re used on horses with nicked tails to train/keep them in the right shape for show season, as just nicking the tail doesn’t get you the high carriage. Or sometimes tail sets are used with a bustle on horses without cut tails, although I’ve only known Morgan people to do that.

#925

[QUOTE=beckzert;6335391]
This is kind of going in a different direction for a moment, but does anyone know what that harness thing is that the horse is wearing over it’s stable sheet in the part of the video where the horse is writhing on the ground? I’d never seen something like that…and I mean that for both the cruelty and whatever that contraption is.[/QUOTE]
It’s a tail set

#926

[QUOTE=Kadenz;6335273]
THANK YOU!!! I knew I couldn’t be the only person feeling like I must be missing something here. Then again, I haven shown horses in Tennessee…maybe things are more difficult down there in the whole logic department. I get that the DQPs are hired or chosen by the Association, right? Which also, sorry if I’m obtuse, but it sure seems like a GIGANTIC conflict of interest there. If the breed association was serious about doing this right, they would go with as impartial and third-party as possible for the DQPs. Not TWH trainers and clients of the trainers they’re supposed to be monitoring.

I’ve shown under FEI rules, so please don’t start bleating about fly spray and shampoos causing “false” positives. Did you know that peppermints will cause a positive test? Or that capsacin, the active ingredient in most shampoos to help dark horses stay dark, will also test positive and DQ you? Well guess what, they do. So WE DON’T GIVE PEPPERMINTS TO OUR HORSES before or at a show. Oh, the hardships, don’t EVEN get me started! :rolleyes:

Mythilus tested positive for a trace amount of a drug that isn’t even sold in the US; incidentally, he had prior to the Games been treated in the vet clinic at the Hong Kong Jockey Club, where the Games were held…and where that drug is legal and obtainable. It’s most plausible that Myth picked up trace amounts of the drug, which enters the blood through the skin, there at the vet clinic.

I don’t remember Courtney King-Dye moaning about it too loudly. It happened, the FEI has a zero-tolerance policy, and the US lost their 4th place standing in the GP dressage. To my recollection, nobody cried foul or tried to say it was a false positive or a cheat.

ETA: I mean, if we’re going to be throwing out random occurrences, I figure we ought to get the details correct.[/QUOTE]

You are so Hellbent on saying I’m complaining, no, wait, bleating, that you race past the passages where I plainly state exactly what I’m doing: peeling the onion. No excuses, none whatsoever, and not a bleat to be heard. You guys are beating your sticks and gnashing your teeth at me, and I’m still just offering a broader painting of the picture. Don’t rail at me about peppermints and paprika, in all caps,even. I don’t feel berated, chastened, bad, or good. I’m entirely non emotional about this stuff. I am just a little more educated about the ins and outs. I’ve never dealt with FEI horses. You’ve never dealt with TWH’s and HIOs and DQPs. Apples, Oranges. I’m not sure why that offends or angers you, or why expanded descriptions are rebranded as bleats, excuses, laziness, and/or stupidity. I have not sought to belittle you or anyone else on this thread. I do not defend soring. I do not defend outrageously tall pads. I am not any of the things I am repeatedly being accused of being. All I am is someone who has shown TWHs and taken horses through the inspection process, and know tons of show horses, lite and padded and barefoot- that are shown, that are not sored. Someone quoted Barney Davis earlier, saying all show horses are sored, in bold, as if it were some inviolate truth.

It is not the truth. He just wanted to make himself out as ‘everybody’s doing it’. No, they are not.

You guys can continue to call me names or accuse me of all sorts of things. Or you could see my information as a window into a clearer picture of the situation. If you don’t want that, skip my posts. Or read them, misinterpret my intent, and call me things.

And I recall many an armchair FEI expert claiming all manner of nonsense about Mythlius, yes I do. I’m not going to invest in digging it out of the COTH archives, but plenty of instant experts on distant events they vaguely comprehend, weighing in. Sometimes in bold LOL.

#927

[QUOTE=Fairfax;6335361]
I spoke with a representative from Harpo Productions, Chicago and she has never owned TWH’s.

She did own Morans after her first claim to fame and she does own and have a vested interest in Thoroughbreds.[/QUOTE]

thanks, I must have misunderstood the situation.

#928

[QUOTE=beckzert;6335391]
This is kind of going in a different direction for a moment, but does anyone know what that harness thing is that the horse is wearing over it’s stable sheet in the part of the video where the horse is writhing on the ground? I’d never seen something like that…and I mean that for both the cruelty and whatever that contraption is.[/QUOTE]

It’s a tail set harness. I’m not 100% sure of the procedure, but I believe they cut 2 of the muscles in the tail to make it sit up and then maintain that position by making them wear those harnesses. Unfortunatly, TWH and Saddlebreds wear those braces and spend about 90% of their “competing” lives in a stall. All for a “look”. :frowning:

#929

[QUOTE=katarine;6335465]
I’ve never dealt with FEI horses. You’ve never dealt with TWH’s and HIOs and DQPs. [/QUOTE]
katarine I’m happy to offer up an apology.

It may be that you have been around it enough that as you say it doesn’t trigger the emotional overload as it does for some of us. I originally responded to your post that I read as a challenge from you asking how it was done in other top level sports. Having competed under FEI rules I had some insights. I thought you were asking for them.

I would also say that in the great big tirade I wrote this morning but never posted :wink: that often when I was responding to what you wrote I was using the “you” word both in plural form and as the “proverbial you” to cast it across the industry. I can see how that would not be clear and you would have read it more specifically aimed at you. The excuses you discussed were the same ones I have heard the industry use ad naseum and in hindsight I am sure you knew that–perhaps it was even your point. My frustration was/is with the industry not specifically you.

You and I will not always agree, but I am very happy that you come here to brave those of us on emotional overload to offer insight. Thanks.

#930

How can I say this and not piss anyone off…while I must admit that it feel nice when y’all say nice things about me being strong and all…I was shaking in my boots…

Warriors are usually scared people who push past their fear and does what needs to be done….it is very unsettling to have camera and videos and dudes and dudesses in your face…they jumped me coming down the stairs…that man you see hovering behind me is David Howard…main man at The Celebration, Big in ASBs owns World Champion Tack…Shelbyville TN and The Walking Horse Report and Saddlebred Report

He was my main nemesis back in 1998 – 1999 second time he and I have gone head to head ”We whupped them again Josey!” Josey Wales :>)

Everyone of you who reads this sitting right there is a Warrior…right there at your computer…don’t nobody know who’s writing the judge, and sponsors…but on the other end…your words has life changing impact…then think of the thousands this man may get ~~~ would that impact your thinking…heck yea!!!

It would impact any human’s thoughts, beliefs and judgment!!! Just cause he wears a robe, he still puts his glasses on and reads the newspapers, picks up a remote and watches evening news, surfs the net at what’s going on around the world…

He may have horses in his back yard…We do not know…Clicking off this message without highlighting the judge’s information and paste it on a notepad for later…IS the right thang to do!!

Harry S. Mattice, Jr. United States District Judge
900 Georgia Avenue, Room 104
Chattanooga, TN 37402
Phone: (423) 752-5184
mattice_chambers@tned.uscourts.gov

#931

[QUOTE=The Preacher;6335406]
UPDATE!!!

May be our last chance we have any power to make a real difference…

Its been one week ``` people have viewed the videos presented by several TV Stations, news reports newspapers, from several states, it has traveled around the world and back…

People have expressed their outrage, have expressed their opinions of disgust and anger.

The number of people looking in on this situation and responding has never been so high…ever!

So what are we goanna do now?

Who has contacted their state’s representative, to enact a law to ban Pads and Action Devices from the Tennessee Walking Horse Breed?

Who has contacted The Celebrations sponsors?

Are you now satisfied with where things are?

Here where YOU CAN MAKE THE DIFFERENCE

The Sentencing District Federal Judge does not have to accept the plea bargain of probation,

If he wanted to he could deny the prosecution’s writ to offer him probation for pleading guilt to one count of illegal paper work and transporting horse(s) who he knew were intentionally sored, and exhibiting horse(s) when he knew the horse(s) were intentionally sored

HE DOES NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT THE PLEA BARGAIN!!!

There it is…our last shot at sending a message to the trainers all the way down to the grooms that if you sore a horse you go to jail, Federal prison…and federal Prison has no early release…you serve every day of your sentence

I want to take the high road on this I do not want to hate the men involved, nor do I want to see anyone’s life destroyed…

Is probation a just sentence for these men? Who here says “yea, that’s enough”?

re these sentences a big enough deterrent to shut down and stop the Abuse, Soring and Corruption?

The Padded Horse side says that this like every other push to stop them in the past…all will blow over and they will go back to business as usual, they will just be more careful who they let around their training facilities.

Do you have the energy left to perform just one more task on behalf of the horse of the present and the future?

Can you write or call, even both…the presiding judge on this case and ask him to deny the plea bargain on Mr. McConnell and sentence him to do some time.?

That is if you feel probation is not enough.

Share this one last thing you have awesomely shared everything with all your friends …all they have to do is highlight, copy and paste the judge’s email into their email to box and drop him a note expressing your desires

Would you do that? You have that power to make a change in the way trainer’s, owners and grounds people will look at and treat the horse from this day forth…you…from your chair…can impact the future for these horses…

We have until September 10, 2012 9:00am est before the sentencing hearing… think we can influence the judge’s decision ?

Harry S. Mattice, Jr. United States District Judge
900 Georgia Avenue, Room 104
Chattanooga, TN 37402
Phone: (423) 752-5184
mattice_chambers@tned.uscourts.gov
[/QUOTE]

I’m in Preacher. Thanks for posting the Judge’s e-mail, I was wondering if anyone would have it.

#932

[QUOTE=Jemflowers;6335478]
It’s a tail set harness. I’m not 100% sure of the procedure, but I believe they cut 2 of the muscles in the tail to make it sit up and then maintain that position by making them wear those harnesses. Unfortunatly, TWH and Saddlebreds wear those braces and spend about 90% of their “competing” lives in a stall. All for a “look”. :([/QUOTE]

A tail set is the harness like rigging on to which a tail brace or bustle is hooked. The tail brace is a metal cradle which has generally been heavily padded by the user(each horse has a different preference on padding). A bustle is a oversized padded leather crupper. The tail brace holds the tail in an elevated position. A horse which competes in a braced tail division (TWH performance divisions, saddle bred 3-gaited/5-gaited) generally will wear one.

The high set tail for the brace is achieved in one of two ways. 1) A ligament on each side of the underside of the tail is cut, the tail is wrapped, put in to the brace, and heals. Or 2) The horse has it’s tail stretched by hand gradually over time. The horse wears a small leather bustle on the set instead of the brace and every day the tail is raised by hand to stretch the muscle. Gradually a larger bustle is added and the process continues until the horse is limber enough to wear the brace and even the height of it can be altered.

I prefer method two, but as with some people that cannot ever perform the splits, some tails will never be limber enough to handle a brace with simple stretching.

A common misconception about the tail set it that horses must wear them 24/7/365 and this is generally simply not the case. During the off season, a horse will generally not wear the brace unless for some reason their tail likes to tighten back up quickly which isn’t too common. During the show season the tail set is wore while stalled. It is taken off for a few hours every day, and is removed when the horse is being worked or let out for turnout.

How long before a first show of the season a horse starts to wear the set is also a very individual thing. Some horses take awhile to get back in to a set while others you can start putting them in a set a week or two before a show.

Other common misconceptions about tail sets it the tail is broken to achieve it. The break in the tail is the arch formed in the tail while it is up. The tail is never broken. Some say thebhorse cannot use it’s tail after it has been in a set. While a horse does have limited range of motion while wearing the brace due to how it is shaped, they have full use of the tail while wearing a bustle or while the set is removed.

A braced tail will go back to normal or near normal once use of the brace is stopped.

#933

Thanks Preacher - will start composing a letter to the judge. Contacting congress is something i hope all that visit this thread have done or will do

As far as celebrities go - does it matter what breed they own ? Being into horses should be enough for them to recognize extreme abuse when they see it and possibly want to step forward and help stop the abuse. Oprah did own a TWH stallion - maybe theres a reason she switched breeds.

and looky here Roy rides again !!!

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2012/5/24/226819/Roy-Exum-Guess-Who-Judges-Horses.aspx

#934

[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6335661]
As far as celebrities go - does it matter what breed they own ? Being into horses should be enough for them to recognize extreme abuse when they see it and possibly want to step forward and help stop the abuse. [/QUOTE]
There are several celebrities in the Middle Tn area or with local connections that have horses in a big way. The ones that come to mind at the moment who I know keep barns with horse trainers are Kix Brooks who has reiners or cutting horses (?), Sheryl Crowe spotted somethings mostly used for trail riding, Lyle Lovett who is a very serious reining competitor although not out of MidTN. Loretta Lynn has been a long time fixture in the QH world. Maybe Amy Grant and her husband Vince Gill(?) --although it might be her sister’s project more than her own.

#935

WOW now thats what needs to be seen all around the world. an article like that speaks volumes about the TWHBEA.

owners beware you are being noticed yes you are being noticed.the finger of guilt is pointing at YOU.:eek:

#936

[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6335661]
Thanks Preacher - will start composing a letter to the judge. Contacting congress is something i hope all that visit this thread have done or will do

As far as celebrities go - does it matter what breed they own ? Being into horses should be enough for them to recognize extreme abuse when they see it and possibly want to step forward and help stop the abuse. Oprah did own a TWH stallion - maybe theres a reason she switched breeds.

and looky here Roy rides again !!!

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2012/5/24/226819/Roy-Exum-Guess-Who-Judges-Horses.aspx[/QUOTE]

WHere’s the line behind ROy Exum! He is for sure cutting through this crap like a hot knife through butter!

SubK - I suggest you invite him and the Preacher to your event. People will become informed in short order for sure.

Roy Exum for President of TWHBEA!!! They just need some common freaking sense. Roy is passing it out for sure.

#937

As I already PMed kadenz and to subk and anyone else interested in this subject who has never been to a Walking Horse show let alone shown one themself: comparing the inspection process to FEI level dressage rules is so out of place because every one who shows a TWH, even in trail pleasure at a tiny little show Minnesota where there is no prize money to be had, has to go through the inspection process. Imagine having to follow ALL FEI rules and procedures to show your training level horse at a local 1 day dressage schooling show. What the little guy goes through to enjoy showing his/her TWH that they will probably take to a trail ride or a field trial the next weekend is INSANE! I give credit to the good folk that put up with this to show their Walkers, all because of some real asshats.

There is a reason why Saddlebred folks have treated the Walking Horse problems by distancing ourselves. No one sores Saddlebreds, we follow the same USEF General Rules (including drugs and meds) as dressage, for example, when you are not competing at FEI Level.

#938

Too bad there is no place to post a comment under Roy’s column. I did like and share it for Facebook but i dont tweet. Does anyone have twitter ?

#939

Saddlebreds are sometimes sored even though ASB will not admit it. They trot higher they just have to do it on both front feet. Pressure shoeing and driving nails into the quick…dirty little secret that they try to distance themselves from. The trainers are sick that abuse, but, even worse are the owners that allow this to happen.:no:

#940

[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6335661]
Thanks Preacher - will start composing a letter to the judge. Contacting congress is something i hope all that visit this thread have done or will do

As far as celebrities go - does it matter what breed they own ? Being into horses should be enough for them to recognize extreme abuse when they see it and possibly want to step forward and help stop the abuse. Oprah did own a TWH stallion - maybe theres a reason she switched breeds.

and looky here Roy rides again !!!

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2012/5/24/226819/Roy-Exum-Guess-Who-Judges-Horses.aspx[/QUOTE]

Can you give me his name so I can go back to her head of P.R. and let them know Coth ites know more than Orprah ites

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