Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

[hurleycane]

[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6348228]
Here is today’s Roy Exum editorial:

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2012/5/30/227217/Roy-Exum-Tennessees-New-Horse-Bill.aspx

“As a matter of fact, the Horse Protection Act was introduced in 1970 but until federal prosecutors in East Tennessee took on Davis and McConnell at an inspector’s insistence, there have not been any guilty pleas registered in 40 years of federal oversight. Justice officials on the federal and state level, now aware of the chronic abuse and the continuing soring, vow there will be further indictments.”

Good.

The new animal abuse law goes into effect July 1.
McConnell goes to court in Fayette County in June.

Too bad the new law (and its loophole) can’t be tested on McConnell. He was was charged in February.[/QUOTE]

I am loving Roy’s stuff still.

The only problem I have with the “law” is it is takes mameing or killing the animal to come under its rule. Since soreing is a temporary" discomfort" unless they raise the hair - my concern is if they do not leave a mark, they will not need to ever worry about this law.

It would have been better if the Tennessee law had the HPA definition of the “soring” of the walkers in its definition.

[katarine]

[QUOTE=hurleycane;6347832]
I think America needs to be punished for making this legal to do. Somewhere in the HPA the grotesque dimensions of these stacks are specified with parameters (I could not find it). So America makes the stacks legal. That is the point of my post. We actually condone this.

It will take other esteemed organizations getting involved in this mess to shed real light and get it banned.

Forty some years of fixing it internally and or FOSH or HSUS or even the great effort og the NWHA has not stopped the practice.

It is going to take more.

And now is the time.[/QUOTE]

How can NWHA stop it? All they can do is host shows that don’t have padded classes? How in the world would NWHA stop the HIOs from having padded classes?
That’s like saying someone with poultry barns is responsible for cock fighting.

[hurleycane]

They did fight in two ways that come to mind. NWHA was born by folks who wanted out of the mess “over there.” ALong with giving a separate and respected venue to show, they indeed tried to give the TWH an alternative place to register their Tennessee Walking Horses. You might recall they lost the legal ability to do this when TWHBEA took them to court.

Can’t say they didn’t lock horns.

I give them great credit for trying.

[katarine]

Creating a registry will not and would not have…done a thing to the BL horse.

They put on a good show, they just don’t have BL horses.

I still don’t see how they could have ‘beaten’ the BL horse.

[hurleycane]

[QUOTE=katarine;6348569]
Creating a registry will not and would not have…done a thing to the BL horse.

They put on a good show, they just don’t have BL horses.

I still don’t see how they could have ‘beaten’ the BL horse.[/QUOTE]

Indeed it would have. They pert near took the registry over. I think the devil of the details was what got in the way. They used the same #'s when they were setting theirs up. TWHBEA proved the registration numbers to be proprietary.

Think about it.

And they do oppose in deed and word the Big Lick.

Would you want them to take up arms or something?

[WalkInTheWoods]

Sorry to interupt but noone has answered my question. Do most BL horses stay shod with stacks year round or just for the show season ?

[Lord_Helpus]

I was an AHSA (now USEF) Steward in the early 1980’s. One of my jobs was to examine the pasterns of every Walking horse before it went into the ring. If I saw signs of open wounds or even scabs or scars, the horse was not allowed to show.

What happened to that practice? Did the TWH people stop having their shows recognized by the AHSA?

I am a hunter person who lived in California at the time, so big lick horses were not a real problem. But I had to check pasterns of every horse, even if it was going in a TWH pleasure class and was shod in flat shoes.

Were those rules forgotten about in the last 30 years? Has the horse been forgotten?

I am very happy that soring has once again come out of the closet. And I hope that, this time, there is enough angry backlash that it effects some long lasting change.

[In another recent story, a standardbred trainer was found to have violated medication rules 1700 time in the last several years and has been banned from racing for an indefinite period of time. YEA! for the good guys. But how horrible that the cheating had gotten to be so flagrant that it came to this.]

EVERY horse activity, especially big $$ competitions needs to go under the microscope and be dissected. The amount of callousness and cheating will be overwhelming. But unless each of us is part of the solution, then we are part of the problem,

[CarrieK]

[QUOTE=hurleycane;6348315]
CarrieK - Keep my quotes in context. [/QUOTE]
:: snert :: okay, but that doesn’t really…well…

Like it or not -
That doesn’t enter into it. I’m not all how-dare-you about your statement. I was more amused.

America

A poster upthread already mentioned but it bears repeating: “America” doesn’t know about this issue. Horse owners are a small portion of the population. TWH owners are a small portion of that, and BL/soring advocates are a smaller portion still.

So when you say America whatever your exact quote in context was, it’s bombastic and funny. Combined with whatever your exact quote about the Olympic Equestrian team, well, that’s bombastic and let’s-burn-the-village-in-order-to-save-it. And that’s misguided at best.

[WalkInTheWoods]

Another newspaper chimes in:

http://www.dnj.com/article/20120530/OPINION01/305300025/EDITORIAL-Walking-horse-leaders-must-prove-they-re-clean

EDITORIAL: Walking horse leaders must prove they’re clean

5:47 PM, May. 29, 2012 | 2 Comments

Written by The Daily News Journal

The Tennessee Walking Horse Celebration took the right steps last week by banning walking horse trainer Jackie McConnell for life after he pleaded guilty in a horse “soring” case.

Unfortunately, the Celebration’s directors didn’t take decisive action until after McConnell’s abusive training techniques were recorded by an undercover member of the Humane Society of the United States for the world to see on YouTube and ABC’s “Nightline.”
In voting to bar McConnell from the Celebration grounds in Shelbyville and to remove him from a list of Hall of Fame inductees, the board of directors’ CEO said the decision reflects “disgust” with McConnell and that his actions do not reflect the Tennessee walking horse industry.
In recent years, the industry also set up S.H.O.W., Sound Horses - Honest Judging - Objective Inspections - Winning Fairly, which has given lifetime suspensions to trainers with “egregious violations” of the Horse Protection Act.
With all that done, though, we wonder how McConnell ever reached the point of being considered for the Hall of Fame. Until his plea and the airing of horse soring and beatings, he was likely headed for the pinnacle of success.
Apologists for the big-time walking horse industry would have people believe he is only one bad actor. But the fact is that “soring,” the technique of using chemicals and chains to give walking horses the exaggerated gait or “big lick” to win championships, was used for years — with industry leaders closing their eyes to keep the almighty dollar flowing.
That’s why the Horse Protection Act was enacted in 1970, and that’s why the federal government had to get involved in the inspection of horses’ ankles and hooves.
We’ve heard the whining that federal inspectors are too tough on competitors, that they look for different signs than inspectors hired by the industry.
Those crocodile tears don’t work anymore.
Fewer people are attending the Celebration. Weekend walking horse competitions that once served as charitable fundraisers are going away. And millions of dollars worth of investments in pasture, barns, equipment and animals are being reduced to nothing.
We’d love to believe walking horse industry leaders are serious about changing the industry. Their decisions have a major impact on Rutherford County, where numerous owners, riders and trainers live.
But they must take more preemptive action to end this horrible training technique, not wait until the entire world watches a video of a man beating a sore horse.

Opinions in this column reflect consensus of discussion by The Daily News Journal Editorial Board: Michelle Russell, general manager; Sam Stockard, senior writer; Sandee Suitt, Lifestyles editor; Gary Frazier, senior content editor; and Taylor Loyal, Smyrna A.M. editor.

Opinions in this column reflect consensus of discussion of The Daily News Journal Editorial Board.

[walknsound]

Like that comparison

[QUOTE=CFFarm;6347833]
Study or no study, there is no defense for this horrible method! Foot-binding didn’t kill the women either. This is no different in my eyes.[/QUOTE]

It is no different, except more painful for the horses with the chemicals.

[walknsound]

I wonder

[QUOTE=lightlee;6347716]
I contacted the Tennessee Walking Horse Association. Their position as to the use of stacks and chains is that these devices, while unattractive/unappealing to some, are acceptable training aids and they are NOT harmful to the horses. They stated that they have a copy of study from Auburn which proves this.

I just cannot believe that Auburn would publish a study stating that the devices are not harmful. These devices cause long term, permanent damage. This should be a no brainer. Does anyone have a copy of the study performed by Auburn (or any other scientific study) which refutes the Tenn. Walkers Assoc claim that stacks/chains are not harmful?[/QUOTE]

Just wondering how many Auburn grads are BL, or their kids or Grandkids attend Auburn, and they contribute to Auburn in a hefty manner. Hmmmmm!

[hurleycane]

[QUOTE=CarrieK;6348703]
:: snert :: okay, but that doesn’t really…well…

That doesn’t enter into it. I’m not all how-dare-you about your statement. I was more amused.

A poster upthread already mentioned but it bears repeating: “America” doesn’t know about this issue. Horse owners are a small portion of the population. TWH owners are a small portion of that, and BL/soring advocates are a smaller portion still.

So when you say America whatever your exact quote in context was, it’s bombastic and funny. Combined with whatever your exact quote about the Olympic Equestrian team, well, that’s bombastic and let’s-burn-the-village-in-order-to-save-it. And that’s misguided at best.[/QUOTE]

Its your take on it - OK. But if the mucho more importante folks I mentioned ever decided to turn their attention to it things… changes would come.

And if America is anything at all - America is its laws. RIght now it is actually legal to do this to a horse in America. America makes this legal.

Context.

England would have a cow over this.

Germany would have a cow over this.

[hurleycane]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;6348700]
I was an AHSA (now USEF) Steward in the early 1980’s. One of my jobs was to examine the pasterns of every Walking horse before it went into the ring. If I saw signs of open wounds or even scabs or scars, the horse was not allowed to show.

What happened to that practice? Did the TWH people stop having their shows recognized by the AHSA?

I am a hunter person who lived in California at the time, so big lick horses were not a real problem. But I had to check pasterns of every horse, even if it was going in a TWH pleasure class and was shod in flat shoes.

Were those rules forgotten about in the last 30 years? Has the horse been forgotten?

I am very happy that soring has once again come out of the closet. And I hope that, this time, there is enough angry backlash that it effects some long lasting change.

[In another recent story, a standardbred trainer was found to have violated medication rules 1700 time in the last several years and has been banned from racing for an indefinite period of time. YEA! for the good guys. But how horrible that the cheating had gotten to be so flagrant that it came to this.]

EVERY horse activity, especially big $$ competitions needs to go under the microscope and be dissected. The amount of callousness and cheating will be overwhelming. But unless each of us is part of the solution, then we are part of the problem,[/QUOTE]

Just bolding for the likes of Carrie above.

No the inspections continued. Sad fact is th BL folks came up with ways to sore em and disguise the fact that they were sored.

[hurleycane]

WalkintheWoods - that was a very good editorial link.

[Graymaresrule]

[QUOTE=CarrieK;6348703]
:: snert :: okay, but that doesn’t really…well…

That doesn’t enter into it. I’m not all how-dare-you about your statement. I was more amused.

A poster upthread already mentioned but it bears repeating: “America” doesn’t know about this issue. Horse owners are a small portion of the population. TWH owners are a small portion of that, and BL/soring advocates are a smaller portion still.

So when you say America whatever your exact quote in context was, it’s bombastic and funny. Combined with whatever your exact quote about the Olympic Equestrian team, well, that’s bombastic and let’s-burn-the-village-in-order-to-save-it. And that’s misguided at best.[/QUOTE]

FWIW, Mr P works in TN. I asked him if he had heard about the issue or was anyone at his office talking about it as they know we have horses.

Nope, not a word.

[katarine]

[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6348664]
Sorry to interupt but noone has answered my question. Do most BL horses stay shod with stacks year round or just for the show season ?[/QUOTE]

some get down time, some don’t, just depends on the horse and the owner/trainer’s show goals.

Hurley I understand what you are saying but frankly, notice where most of the NWHA shows are vs TWHBEA HIO shows: When they moved their National show to Ohio, to me that spoke volumes about their commitment to the TWH. On some level I feel like they gave up fighting and left to go to Ohio. They packed their toys and left the cesspool that is TN. Those aren’t my words, but those of one of their more outspoken trainers. Who is based in TN.

[scrtwh]

[QUOTE=bayou_bengal;6345558]

And yes it is trye that the natureally-bred TWH wearing flat shod regular shoes DOES NOT need to be trained by a professional to do its naturally bred gaits-- provided it is a well-bred TWH WITH natural gaits bred in.

The best training to “lock in” the natural running walk is lots of hours of riding by someone who knows how the gait looks and feels. There will always be room for good honest professional trainers even once the stacks, chains and hoofbands are gone.[/QUOTE]

:yes:
Wet saddle blankets…

[bludejavu]

@Lord Helpus;6348700

I was an AHSA (now USEF) Steward in the early 1980’s. One of my jobs was to examine the pasterns of every Walking horse before it went into the ring. If I saw signs of open wounds or even scabs or scars, the horse was not allowed to show.

What happened to that practice? Did the TWH people stop having their shows recognized by the AHSA?

Yes, AHSA and TWH folks disassociated quite some time ago. They knew they could no long show under AHSA guidelines and rules.

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6348664]
Sorry to interupt but noone has answered my question. Do most BL horses stay shod with stacks year round or just for the show season ?[/QUOTE]

Generally speaking, yes.

While pulling shoes in the off season is usually not a problem for an otherwise sound horse pulling a 6" stack will grossly alter a horse’s way of going and will cause significant stress to the horse. Remember it didn’t go up all at once (it started in “colt packages” and then increased to a full stack). You just don’t pull these off and then slap them back on for the next show season.

G.

[WalkInTheWoods]

Thats what i figured - that most stayed on. A horse would be so body sore to come off them cold turkey. I had stumbled across a video, maybe i can find it - the entire shoeing process of putting on stacks on an aged horse who had been off the stacks in off season for 2 or 3 months. He went from just a regular shoe, right back into the stack. I will click around a bit and see if i can follow the bread crumbs and find that video.