The only way to get the TWH off this merry go round is to make stacks and action devices illegal.
[QUOTE=Guilherme;6353764]
I just read 39-14-216. Here is a link to it.
http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/107/Bill/SB2759.pdf
… The HPA is narrow in its scope, applying only to things that affect interstate commerce (a Constitutional limit).
Before ANY conduct can be felonious it must be "
depraved and sadistic." This puts a resonable burden on the State to present evidence, beyond a reasonable doubt, that an accused has violated one or more sections of the Statute.
It seems to me to be a fair application of the power of the state to regulate livestock husbandry.
G.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for taking the time to review this, G.
I think I understand. As I read this…it doesn’t have any application at all to the problem of soring/stewarding (even if training practices aren’t excluded).
Not only must the conduct be “depraved and sadistic” it also must result in serious bodily injury or death. If the horse is competing, I’m sure they can argue it isn’t seriously injured. Or, they need to define seriously injured, and training, for that matter.
In my state at least, IIRC electric fence is covered in fence law as a legal containment but I’m sure other applications (like dog collars, etc.) as you mention need to be differentiated.
As this legislation was mentioned in so many articles/reports on this issue, and it was signed the day prior to the nightline report (long after the video was turned over and the episode was scheduled), it gives the “feel” that the state is trying to do something, when in fact, I doubt it was at all related. The fact that it excludes training practices and ultimately the purpose of soring and stewarding is training…It would seem it would be difficult to prosecute any of these incidents with this law.
Thanks for posting WalkInTheWoods. I have sent my thank you to Rep. Sontany. [email]rep.janis.sontany@capitol.tn.gov
I just want to say, as a hunter/jumper rider, all my life, I am going to follow this story.
Because, McConnell is not the only one, as evidenced by watching a youtube video that shows all the other horses performing like McConnell’s horse.
And horses do not walk like that unless they have been trained to thru these horrific measures.
This is cruelty beyond belief. I was sicken just watching the horses go around, it made me sick to my stomach, so I couldn’t continue to watch.
We are in Georgia, so close to where this cruelly is happening, let me know what else I can do. My heart goes out the these horses.
[QUOTE=Summit Springs Farm;6356848]
I just want to say, as a hunter/jumper rider, all my life, I am going to follow this story.
Because, McConnell is not the only one, as evidenced by watching a youtube video that shows all the other horses performing like McConnell’s horse.
And horses do not walk like that unless they have been trained to thru these horrific measures.
This is cruelty beyond belief. I was sicken just watching the horses go around, it made me sick to my stomach, so I couldn’t continue to watch.
We are in Georgia, so close to where this cruelly is happening, let me know what else I can do. My heart goes out the these horses.[/QUOTE]
Thanks Summit Springs, we need all the help we can get. Ala. and Ga. are bad about soring too.
Message From Champagne Watchout;
My human Nathanael, just asked me what I thought about putting the band back together of Natalie and I showing this year at the Celebration in the World Grand Championship Class.
Whatdya think?
Hell yeah !
I’m in for some gas money.
[QUOTE=Rbow;6356662]
Thank you for taking the time to review this, G.
I think I understand. As I read this…it doesn’t have any application at all to the problem of soring/stewarding (even if training practices aren’t excluded).
Not only must the conduct be “depraved and sadistic” it also must result in serious bodily injury or death. If the horse is competing, I’m sure they can argue it isn’t seriously injured. Or, they need to define seriously injured, and training, for that matter.
In my state at least, IIRC electric fence is covered in fence law as a legal containment but I’m sure other applications (like dog collars, etc.) as you mention need to be differentiated.
As this legislation was mentioned in so many articles/reports on this issue, and it was signed the day prior to the nightline report (long after the video was turned over and the episode was scheduled), it gives the “feel” that the state is trying to do something, when in fact, I doubt it was at all related. The fact that it excludes training practices and ultimately the purpose of soring and stewarding is training…It would seem it would be difficult to prosecute any of these incidents with this law.[/QUOTE]
The legislation clearly applies to soring and stewarding practices that fall under the Act. Just how terms like “depraved,”, “sadistic,” and “serious bodily injury” will be interpreted remains to be seen. TN is actually fairly liberal in criminal matters. I’ve not done an research to see how these terms have been interpreted in the past.
Again, I’ve not done any researching of the legislative history, here, but knowing how slow the TN Legislature is in addressing anything I’d bet that this has been “in the cooker” for quite some time. The McConnell tape might have “jarred it loose” or maybe it was just coincidence.
I did not mention “electric fencing” in its normal use, but use as a “training device.” One way to deal with “fence tester” is to set up a small paddock with lots of strands of bare aluminum wire and a big fence charger. Then turn loose Old Clomper (or Ferdinand or Babe) to learn the Lesson of the Lightning.
It is wrong to interpret this legislation as effectively excluding any regulation of training practices. The language is broad and that means lots of work for lawyers. A more artful statement would be preferrable, but this is not a “get out of jail free” card for McConnell or anyone like him.
TN has a healthy respect for property rights. That includes an owner’s right to deal with their livestock as they will. There is a legitimate fear of allowing the PETA/HSUS or any of their “fellow travelers” to gain unreasonable authority in the regulation of handling or training livestock. I share this fear. I am also extremely knowledgeable of the sorry history of the Walking Horse industry. A balance needs to be struck. This legislation is a first attempt at striking that balance. Maybe it will work, maybe it won’t.
G.
[QUOTE=Rbow;6351871]
IThe timing of the law, and the exclusion (huh?), is inexplicable. If I had the time, I’d review the tapes of the session to see if there’s any more insight into how it all occurred. [/QUOTE]
Here is the official track of the bill through the TN Legislature:
http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=SB2759
It was introduced at the very begining of the session in January. So it would have been researched and written before January. The only amendment to the bill was to clairfy the definition of livestock/remove poultry. It was passed and place on the Governor’s desk on May 9th a week before the video was released by the HSUS. Signed by the Governor on May 21st.
There are also tapes of the session as well as the committee meetings at the site I posted.
[QUOTE=The Preacher;6357344]
Message From Champagne Watchout;
My human Nathanael, just asked me what I thought about putting the band back together of Natalie and I showing this year at the Celebration in the World Grand Championship Class.
Whatdya think?[/QUOTE]
You are kdding…right?
[QUOTE=The Preacher;6357344]
Message From Champagne Watchout;
My human Nathanael, just asked me what I thought about putting the band back together of Natalie and I showing this year at the Celebration in the World Grand Championship Class.
Whatdya think?[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t bother, nor would I spend a dime with them UNLESS the stacks of pads, hoofbands and chains have been prohibited and they go back to showing a horse that does agood NATURAL lick, not the ARTIFICIAL "Big Yuck-- as another cother so aptly named the so-called “performance horse” lick.
If it’s a super-good comeback, everyone shiny & ready and truly on their best game - absolutely! 
You know how some comebacks go … eh. Hey, are there some Watchout descendants who could do dear CW proud in that class ??? There’s an idea as well! 
[QUOTE=The Preacher;6357344]
Message From Champagne Watchout;
My human Nathanael, just asked me what I thought about putting the band back together of Natalie and I showing this year at the Celebration in the World Grand Championship Class.
Whatdya think?[/QUOTE]
Only if you get a major national news team to cover it, (60 Minutes, Nightline) otherwise it matters not to the people who play or those who spectate. Although antagonizing them to do something really stupid would be the awesome, as long as they don’t put a hit on you…
What is the point of showing Watchout again in the WGC class? Frankly, he’s not sired any amazing flat shod/lite shod/barefoot show horses, he’s just a pretty-colored, thoroughly average to below average, flat shod horse. He hasn’t sired squat doodle. He is willing and kind and obviously good natured. But why show him again? To prove what? That you have a horse who isn’t competitive in Country or Trail Pleasure?
[QUOTE=OverandOnward;6357927]
If it’s a super-good comeback, everyone shiny & ready and truly on their best game - absolutely!
You know how some comebacks go … eh. Hey, are there some Watchout descendants who could do dear CW proud in that class ??? There’s an idea as well! :)[/QUOTE]
Um, no. He is a good soul, that horse: but he’s not a great TWH. And he’s not sired any great TWHs. Sorry, but he hasn’t.
[QUOTE=Guilherme;6357651]
There is a legitimate fear of allowing the PETA/HSUS or any of their “fellow travelers” to gain unreasonable authority in the regulation of handling or training livestock. I share this fear. I am also extremely knowledgeable of the sorry history of the Walking Horse industry. A balance needs to be struck. This legislation is a first attempt at striking that balance.
G.[/QUOTE]
In this case, I think the lack of regulation is more empowering to the animal rights movement. Even without soring/stewarding, the Big Lick is an effective recruiting tool for AR activism. This 50-year old mess is a gold mine.
[QUOTE=katarine;6357973]
What is the point of showing Watchout again in the WGC class? Frankly, he’s not sired any amazing flat shod/lite shod/barefoot show horses, he’s just a pretty-colored, thoroughly average to below average, flat shod horse. He hasn’t sired squat doodle. He is willing and kind and obviously good natured. But why show him again? To prove what? That you have a horse who isn’t competitive in Country or Trail Pleasure?[/QUOTE]
Man, ain’t we got the claws out, eh? And exactly what have YOU produced? Gonna talk like that, better be able to put it on the line . . .
Just sayin’!
meow!!
This Stakeholder call is taking place this afternoon- I’m posting this info for anyone who has a stake in this- I won’t be able to participate, but I’d love to hear about what transpires.
Animal Care Stakeholder Call Tuesday, June 5, at 4 p.m. EDT–Important Horse Protection Act Updateþ
Please join Dr. Chester Gipson, Deputy Administrator of APHIS’ Animal Care program, on a conference call Tuesday, June 5, at 4 p.m. EDT for an important Horse Protection Act update.
The call-in number is 877-322-9654 and the participant code is: 993037. An AT&T operator will request your name and affiliation prior to placing you in the call. This may take a couple of minutes, so please dial in a few minutes early to ensure we start on time.
Thanks,
Hallie
Hallie Zimmers
Adviser for State and Stakeholder Relations
U.S. Department of Agriculture
Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service
202-799-7029
[QUOTE=katarine;6357974]
Um, no. He is a good soul, that horse: but he’s not a great TWH. And he’s not sired any great TWHs. Sorry, but he hasn’t.[/QUOTE]
Just curious how you define a “great TWH.” Remember, Watchout is shown sound.
