Yep
[QUOTE=WalkinAfterMidnight;6363237]
This is great! As long as DQP does its job. cough[/QUOTE]
Yep. Gave me the impression it’s the same old, same old.
as in my state. there is an Agricultural Dept in all states,with the EQUINE INDUSTRY, so big nowadays most states have an equine member on their bod.
find that person send them an email asking what they are doing to stop the abuse of the TWH. just keep stiring the pot, get these people thinking.
wave the what r u doing to stop SORING flag.
“From the Horse’s Mouth” written by Eugene Davis in 2002 is a book about soring. Warning----have plenty of tissues handy. I’ve forgotten where I got mine, may have been FOSH. Published by Rhoman Books, Nashville, Tenn. www.rhomanbooks.com
“This is a book that could change things, if only enough people would read it and react.”-------Gaited Horse Magazine
http://www.amazon.com/Horses-Mouth-Eugene-Davis/product-reviews/0972143807/ref=sr_1_1_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;6363755]
Why do you think lifesabreeze was censored? Can you distinguish the difference between censored and banned on this board? What makes you think LAB was banned because of what she said? What specific thing did she say which banned her? How do you know that was the reason she was banned?
You get banned from this board when you don’t follow the rules. Just because the communists censored families and drove them from their homes doesn’t mean that when Lifesabreeze was banned from this board it was communistic censorship snaking its oily fingers into the freedom of democracy here on COTH.
Are you letting your personal history inform unrelated experiences here on COTH? Don’t you think a little bit of thought and judgement is in order? Do you understand how this BB works and why people are banned?
If you are rude, impolite and don’t stick to the topic the mods warn you to do so, If you persist, you might be temporarily banned. If you try to circumvent the mods, you might and probably will be permantly banned.
Societies, such as COTH and such as the US, set up laws and rules so that they function as best as they might providing personal rights as much as they can, but with boundaries and limits designed to protect members from abuse. Upholding those rules and laws does not make a governing body suspect or communist, and does not mean they are employing censorship.
Your argument is weak, inflamatory and sensationalistic and shows a true lack of respect for the rules of this board and a lack of understanding of appropriate social boundaries. Lifesabreeze’s behaviour on this board banned her, not her opinions. there’s a difference, and it doesn’t take a high IQ to grasp that.[/QUOTE]
I am influenced by my family history as are you and most of us on the internet.
Individuals were unhappy when the Maryland rep. Dane was removed from the TW group. He was BANNED.
They stated it was due to ??? and XXXXX and YYYYY
By banning and individual, you (generality) have silenced them, therefore that IS a form of censorship.
I do not have an “in” with the moderator and therefore I can not deny a person received a certain number of p.m.'s as I am not privy to that information. I do not have an “in” and therefore I can not claim to know why a person has been banned. I do know that it is a problem with Facebook groups, internet groups…when a certain “in” group decide to get rid of a person…they put pressure on a moderator to “ban” them.
Is this the case here? I don’t know. What I do know, is a voice has been silenced…whether the comments were pro or con…the reason for dialogue is to get readers thinking…and as they think…they will probably come up with a better solution. If everyone agrees on every point…from the first post…then nothing will be accomplished.
[I]If you are rude, impolite and don’t stick to the topic the mods warn you to do so
Your argument is weak, inflamatory and sensationalistic and shows a true lack of respect for the rules of this board and a lack of understanding of appropriate social boundaries[/I]
These are your two statements. I would say your firm comment is in conflict with your second comment.
Impolite would be the charge.
I fail to see where my comments would be inflamatory --tending to arouse excitement, anger etc…weak…then it required no response…and sensationalistic…only to those with overly developed anxieties
All said…I will miss a silenced voice. No more. No less.
“I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to my death, your right to say it”
I think this thread has stopped being useful.
Hopefully, someone will start a new one with any further developments.
How to be a quack without really trying.
Hopefullly this will continue a realistic conversation and put it back on track.
Publicity is what people crave or fear.
It seems expensive and counter productive to “line the classes” with flat shod etc therefore I would suggest the media could be used to the advantage of those against soring.
Owners are a lustfull lot for attention. Those who know who the players are could be strategically placed so that media could “interview” those high priced owners in the stands, by the hitching ring or at the barns.
Pictures and live media takes would create a fear for the owners. No one wants their picture on the 6 pm news or the newspaper in their home town.
The problem media has is: they are shunned. Those in the know create a protection circle so they are unable to locate who the owners are.
Imagine…a picture/interview with a person who has a horse entered…it wins…and is found to be sore…
I am sure many can find better solutions than mine so maybe they could post them
McConnell goes to court in Fayette county June 26. On June 28 theTWHBEA is having a closed door hearing to oust Keith Dane from his Maryland director position saying his actions are not in the best interest of the TWHBEA. They can get away with this crap ? Roy adds a few more HPA violators to the BL cast of characters.
http://www.chattanoogan.com/2012/6/8/227886/Roy-Exum-The-USDA-Is-Trying-At-Least.aspx
Trying, At Least
Friday, June 08, 2012 - by Roy Exum
Roy Exum I was in Nashville when the front page of the Tennessean newspaper told me the U.S. Department of Agriculture had just ruled all violations of the federal Horse Protection Act must be treated the same and, as I read the story, I could swear I heard snickers and giggles coming from Shelbyville. The Tennessee Walking Horse industry is still a long way from cleaning up its suddenly brutal image and the biggest governing group, which controls the Celebration, has handily illustrated for years it could care little about violations of the Horse Protection Act.
Call me callused or a cynic but when the top 20 trainers in the fabled Rider’s Cup standings have a total of 161 violations in the past two years and eight of the last 10 “Trainers of the Year” have violated the Horse Protection Act, the only thing that will ever make a difference is placing anyone who would purposely injure a horse in the dark and dank basement of a jail.
Many of the leaders in the Celebration hierarchy have colorful records of violations, according to USDA web sites.
The new “Picture Boy” of the industry is, of course, 5-foot-7 Jackie L. McConnell, the once highly-regarded horse trainer from Collierville who was shown savagely whipping and abusing animals in a horrifying undercover tape provided by the Humane Society of the United States on May 17. Since then, the national outcry has been enormous and the badly-mangled walking horse industry is now being compared to dog fighting, cock fighting and puppy factories.
McConnell, who will be sentenced in Federal Court on Sept. 10 after pleading guilty two weeks ago, is facing a June 26 trial on state charges in West Tennessee (Fayette County) and the 31-page indictment of cruelty to animals is sickening. A notorious scofflaw, McConnell has been in trouble for soring animals to make them step higher for almost 40 years and, unbelievably, his pattern of behavior seems to be the norm for “Big Lick” trainers and Celebration officials because none have ever been publically censured by the group.
The great and vast majority of those who show Tennessee Walking Horses are law-abiding horse people who would never harm their gentle gaited horses, but to those where stud fees of World Champions attract hundreds of thousands of dollars, the rampant cheating and subsequent abuse of the animals at the top level of the industry has now caused a widespread rage from those who love horses all over the world.
Earlier this week a fourth person named in the federal indictment pleaded guilty in Chattanooga. Jeff Dockery, a 56-year-old handler who admitted he entering horses in events for McConnell when Jackie was often suspended, will also be sentenced on Sept. 10 and was allowed to remain on bond because he is being treated for cocaine addiction at a Mississippi treatment facility. Dockery must also face state charges in Somerville (Fayette Co.) later this month.
The four guilty pleas in Federal Court of the Horse Protection Act are the first since the Act was introduced in 1970 and the state charges, which will be heard in a packed Fayette County circuit court, are an ample illustration state charges will soon begin to be filed on violators of Tennessee’s new legislation that makes horse abuse a felony rather than a misdemeanor.
But the signs of “old school” rules are still glaring. This weekend the Germantown Charity Horse Show will be held in West Tennessee and, while show officials made a huge display of the fact the now-despised McConnell would not be welcome, the judge of the show, according to the website, is Justin Jenne, a Shelbyville trainer who was suspended by the USDA for the whole year of 2011 for soring an animal. Believe it or not, the Germantown show raises money for children’s abuse.
Now skeptics are claiming the horse abuse in Tennessee is just as bad and more widespread than the tragic dog-fighting episode that landed NFL star Michael Vick in a federal prison in 2007. Vick’s notorious Bad Newz Kennels electrified the nation and Vick spent 21 months in Leavenworth prison before two more months of home confinement.
McConnell and the three others who pleaded guilty to only the first of a total of 52 counts are expected to get light sentences in September since violations of the Horse Protection Act are considered a misdemeanor by federal statutes. They will still be considered as felons and will be subject to close probation scrutiny.
What will happen in the state court is anybody’s guess. The new state legislation, making horse abuse a felony, will not go into effect until July, yet the severity of the charges could weigh heavily against McConnell and his handlers, particularly if the undercover tape is allowed in the courtroom and jurors can hear one downed horse crying like a child.
Horsemen say the USDA’s new rules of calling for violations to be treated in a uniform manner are encouraging, but will be weak to uphold. The Celebration crowd uses its own inspectors that are trained by the USDA but paid by SHOW. Thus, the USDA alleges far fewer violations are found by outside groups and less are reported than when the under-funded USDA veterinarians attend shows.
There is also a notable hesitation from Celebration officials to take a dramatic stand. The group quickly formed a Tennessee Walking Show Horse Organization and one man who pledged $100,000 in matching funds was quickly identified as being under a current suspension by the USDA for violating the Horse Protection Act, along with his wife and trainer.
It is also noted that Keith Dane, the head of Equine Services for the Humane Society who made the scathing McConnell tape available to the ABC new show “Nightline,” faces a formal complaint from the Walking Horse Breeders and Exhibitors Association and could get ousted from its board of directors later this month in a well-criticized “closed” hearing.
So, yes, the USDA announcement this week was promising, but the long history of animal abuse by Tennessee Walking Horse trainers is legendary. Justice officials will wind up determining when the abuse will actually end – if ever – but stronger federal and state laws must be in place and adequate government funding, starting with the USDA inspectors and Justice prosecutors, is also a factor.
Then there is “we the people” and, if the walking horse community balks at seeing a horse’s foot actually fall off and another laying in a stall because the pain is so bad, the horse cannot stand, then everybody has a chance. So do the horses.
[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6365301]
McConnell goes to court in Fayette county June 26. On June 28 theTWHBEA is having a closed door hearing to oust Keith Dane from his Maryland director position saying his actions are not in the best interest of the TWHBEA. They can get away with this crap ? Roy adds a few more HPA violators to the BL cast of characters.
http://www.chattanoogan.com/2012/6/8/227886/Roy-Exum-The-USDA-Is-Trying-At-Least.aspx
Trying, At Least
Friday, June 08, 2012 - by Roy Exum
Roy Exum I was in Nashville when the front page of the Tennessean newspaper told me the U.S. Department of Agriculture had just ruled all violations of the federal Horse Protection Act must be treated the same and, as I read the story, I could swear I heard snickers and giggles coming from Shelbyville. The Tennessee Walking Horse industry is still a long way from cleaning up its suddenly brutal image and the biggest governing group, which controls the Celebration, has handily illustrated for years it could care little about violations of the Horse Protection Act.
Call me callused or a cynic but when the top 20 trainers in the fabled Rider’s Cup standings have a total of 161 violations in the past two years and eight of the last 10 “Trainers of the Year” have violated the Horse Protection Act, the only thing that will ever make a difference is placing anyone who would purposely injure a horse in the dark and dank basement of a jail.
Many of the leaders in the Celebration hierarchy have colorful records of violations, according to USDA web sites.
The new “Picture Boy” of the industry is, of course, 5-foot-7 Jackie L. McConnell, the once highly-regarded horse trainer from Collierville who was shown savagely whipping and abusing animals in a horrifying undercover tape provided by the Humane Society of the United States on May 17. Since then, the national outcry has been enormous and the badly-mangled walking horse industry is now being compared to dog fighting, cock fighting and puppy factories.
McConnell, who will be sentenced in Federal Court on Sept. 10 after pleading guilty two weeks ago, is facing a June 26 trial on state charges in West Tennessee (Fayette County) and the 31-page indictment of cruelty to animals is sickening. A notorious scofflaw, McConnell has been in trouble for soring animals to make them step higher for almost 40 years and, unbelievably, his pattern of behavior seems to be the norm for “Big Lick” trainers and Celebration officials because none have ever been publically censured by the group.
The great and vast majority of those who show Tennessee Walking Horses are law-abiding horse people who would never harm their gentle gaited horses, but to those where stud fees of World Champions attract hundreds of thousands of dollars, the rampant cheating and subsequent abuse of the animals at the top level of the industry has now caused a widespread rage from those who love horses all over the world.
Earlier this week a fourth person named in the federal indictment pleaded guilty in Chattanooga. Jeff Dockery, a 56-year-old handler who admitted he entering horses in events for McConnell when Jackie was often suspended, will also be sentenced on Sept. 10 and was allowed to remain on bond because he is being treated for cocaine addiction at a Mississippi treatment facility. Dockery must also face state charges in Somerville (Fayette Co.) later this month.
The four guilty pleas in Federal Court of the Horse Protection Act are the first since the Act was introduced in 1970 and the state charges, which will be heard in a packed Fayette County circuit court, are an ample illustration state charges will soon begin to be filed on violators of Tennessee’s new legislation that makes horse abuse a felony rather than a misdemeanor.
But the signs of “old school” rules are still glaring. This weekend the Germantown Charity Horse Show will be held in West Tennessee and, while show officials made a huge display of the fact the now-despised McConnell would not be welcome, the judge of the show, according to the website, is Justin Jenne, a Shelbyville trainer who was suspended by the USDA for the whole year of 2011 for soring an animal. Believe it or not, the Germantown show raises money for children’s abuse.
Now skeptics are claiming the horse abuse in Tennessee is just as bad and more widespread than the tragic dog-fighting episode that landed NFL star Michael Vick in a federal prison in 2007. Vick’s notorious Bad Newz Kennels electrified the nation and Vick spent 21 months in Leavenworth prison before two more months of home confinement.
McConnell and the three others who pleaded guilty to only the first of a total of 52 counts are expected to get light sentences in September since violations of the Horse Protection Act are considered a misdemeanor by federal statutes. They will still be considered as felons and will be subject to close probation scrutiny.
What will happen in the state court is anybody’s guess. The new state legislation, making horse abuse a felony, will not go into effect until July, yet the severity of the charges could weigh heavily against McConnell and his handlers, particularly if the undercover tape is allowed in the courtroom and jurors can hear one downed horse crying like a child.
Horsemen say the USDA’s new rules of calling for violations to be treated in a uniform manner are encouraging, but will be weak to uphold. The Celebration crowd uses its own inspectors that are trained by the USDA but paid by SHOW. Thus, the USDA alleges far fewer violations are found by outside groups and less are reported than when the under-funded USDA veterinarians attend shows.
There is also a notable hesitation from Celebration officials to take a dramatic stand. The group quickly formed a Tennessee Walking Show Horse Organization and one man who pledged $100,000 in matching funds was quickly identified as being under a current suspension by the USDA for violating the Horse Protection Act, along with his wife and trainer.
It is also noted that Keith Dane, the head of Equine Services for the Humane Society who made the scathing McConnell tape available to the ABC new show “Nightline,” faces a formal complaint from the Walking Horse Breeders and Exhibitors Association and could get ousted from its board of directors later this month in a well-criticized “closed” hearing.
So, yes, the USDA announcement this week was promising, but the long history of animal abuse by Tennessee Walking Horse trainers is legendary. Justice officials will wind up determining when the abuse will actually end – if ever – but stronger federal and state laws must be in place and adequate government funding, starting with the USDA inspectors and Justice prosecutors, is also a factor.
Then there is “we the people” and, if the walking horse community balks at seeing a horse’s foot actually fall off and another laying in a stall because the pain is so bad, the horse cannot stand, then everybody has a chance. So do the horses.
royexum@aol.com[/QUOTE]
Thanks for posting.
I’ve read every. single. post in this thread. I knew about the soring, but the level of depravity of these scumbags has opened my eyes even further.
My un-papered TWH is my trail partner, I have no desire to show. However, I’m among the many that would join the TWH breed membership in some way if they were to eliminate Big Yuck classes altogether and get serious about ousting and prosecuting the abusers.
I SO wish I had the resources available to me to be able to go protest the Celebration somehow. Or maybe even ALL of the shows with Big Yuck classes, until they were pressured into getting rid of them, like Oregon did.
[QUOTE=Char;6365361]
I’ve read every. single. post in this thread. I knew about the soring, but the level of depravity of these scumbags has opened my eyes even further.
My un-papered TWH is my trail partner, I have no desire to show. However, I’m among the many that would join the TWH breed membership in some way if they were to eliminate Big Yuck classes altogether and get serious about ousting and prosecuting the abusers.
I SO wish I had the resources available to me to be able to go protest the Celebration somehow. Or maybe even ALL of the shows with Big Yuck classes, until they were pressured into getting rid of them, like Oregon did.[/QUOTE]
I know, me too. Just write, e-mail the Senators, Congressmen, TWHBEA, the Celebration, everybody. Also, thank the newspapers who are covering this, ABC news, Pepsi, again everyone who is helping. And for Heaven’s sake, let’s not let this subject get swept under the rug, never shut up. I may be wrong, but I think it may be a new day for the TWH, I pray it’s so.
Just found this USA Today article explaining again the money flow.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/smallbusiness/story/2012-06-02/walking-horse-soring/55328914/1
I believe in WE the PEOPLE,as i have said each State has a Ag Dept.call them, write to the board of dir. the one on the bod in my state is with the ED Unit also with THE HORSE.COM. letting this person know that HE/SHE needs to address the SORING of the TWH in my STATE and that i’m watching.may make a difference here.
this State has 3 large show grounds that all groups use.so its $$$$ for them,so it matters that they are letting horse abusers use these venues.
you can get a post card at the PO for .35 so for 3.50 ya can get 10 folks that encludes the STAMP. a pack of cigs cost more than that right.
i’m just saying WE the PEOPLE.
thx all; interesting McPaper article, as was the roy exum piece.
thx great article USA goes all over. Tennessee are YOU listening.
Thanks Char for reading thru the entire thread. I really think if we each do what we can and ask family and friends to do the same, that there might be a change. If we dont, then nothing will change. Ive seen that old “You cant fight city hall” mentality challanged successfully a few times on a local level. So i believe we all can effect change by keeping this issue alive.
per the USAToday article, which one do you believe? (rhetorical):
“They’re in it for the love of the animal,” said Chad Williams, a longtime professional trainer whose stables north of here are used to train walking horses for top events like the annual Walking Horse National Celebration that put this city of about 20,000 on the equine map.
OR
“It’s a total culture,” Lawler said. “You have rich owners who only come to show their horses to compete for a blue ribbon. Now, I’m not against anybody being rich. It’s a free country. But for them, it’s all about the glory. I don’t have enough money (to compete on that level).”
And after viewing many videos of the BL classes, I haven’t seen this? Perhaps, there’s a rule about neck pats for TWHs?(sarcasm)
http://www.chronofhorse.com/sites/default/files/EbelingFreePatWCF12_0.jpg
Amazingly similar legal issues to those on the Hunter/Jumper thread about Humble the pony that died at Devon. Kudos to all of you who are in the trenches and keep fighting.
the horse in the first video is doing the same crouching rear end thing that BL horses do-just not to the same degree, but getting there. His rump is all slanted down and the back legs look like they’re wobbling. And that rider’s position-whew!! Looks pretty bad to me.
He is 100% sound. He is purpose bred and built for the job. I don’t see any twisting hocks but cannot say i studied it.
As for the eq. issue…Richard Spooner comes to mind 
Well, I heard back from one of the representatives from PRIDE. Same old song and dance:
Dear Mr. Hamilton,
The very act of making a horse spend 23.5 hours stall bound on 5-8lb 5 inch or more ‘stacks’ is abusive in and of itself, never mind the chemical soring, pressure shoeing and the stewarding that go along with this culture. The Performance Horse following only make up about 5-10% of Tennessee Walking Horse Owners/Trainers. Are you aware of this? The Performance horse monstrosity is NOT the face NOR the epitomy of the breed by any means.
The rest of the 90-95% of Tennessee Walking Horse owners are sickened by the abominable freak show that IS the Performance Padded Horse. The way they are forced to move and live, starting their show careers as early as TWO YEARS OLD carrying full-grown 200+ lb men is disgusting. Just because the rest of us do not condone or agree with the very fundamentals of the Padded Performance Horse lifestyle, does not mean that we are uneducated. Quite the contrary, which is why all of the major TWH organizations that support and condone Big Lick at all should be very wary - the rest of the horse world, heck the rest of the CIVILIZED world is watching. We have seen what goes on, there are plenty of ex-padded horse owners and trainers speaking out about their experiences and let me tell you - none of it is good.
If the major TWH organizations were smart, they would do away with the Padded Horse Division altogether. News flash - there is NO OTHER discipline or breed IN THE WORLD that has to have laws enacted by Congress to PREVENT the horses from the intentional infliction of pain as a performance enhancement. EVERY other discipline with every other breed has rules against drugs that MASK pain, so that unsound horses cannot be shown or competed. Only in Padded Performance is pain necessary to win. Shame, shame.
I call you out on any padded horses that are not Sore. Crawling along in that manner, thrown back on their haunches in that extreme way - you don’t think that their shoulders are sore? The tendons in the front legs are not sore from the hyperextension caused by flinging those heavy shoes?? The backs are not sore? What about their hocks? Loins? Gaskins? I go back to my original statement - Padded Performance is abusive - with or without the chemical and mechanical soring.
It seems that you sir, need to educate yourself beyond the tiny little world that your organization in entrenched in, and join the world of reality and common sense.
Regards,
Charlotte Smith
[I]-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hamilton <sam.momentum@yahoo.com>
To: smi7470 <smi7470@aol.com>
Sent: Fri, Jun 8, 2012 12:28 pm
Subject: Re: Tennessee Walking Horse ‘Performance’ Horse Classes
Ms. Smith,
PRIDE does not condone horse abuse of any kind at any time. We inspect horse shows, sales and exhibitions. We do not allow any horse found to be sore to show at any time. With that being said you do seem to be throwing the baby out with the bath water. Child abuse is an abomination and so is spouse abuse but we haven’t outlawed marriage or having children. Many people show padded horses that are not sore and love and care for these animals like their children. Soring is not a padded horse problem, it is the same problem that you have in any competition. The fact is people cheat and it is our job to catch them. I am sorry that you do not seem to have all the facts. Also just an FYI, we do not have a membership so we have no pressure to allow sore horses to show. I do not own any horses so there is no gain for me not to do my job. You need to know more about the people that you chose to crucify and you might find out that they are doing the right things.
Regards,
Sam Hamilton[/I]
From: “smi7470@aol.com” <smi7470@aol.com>
To: info@pridehio.com; dqp@pridehio.com; judges@pridehio.com; advertise@pridehio.com
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2012 12:09 PM
Subject: Tennessee Walking Horse ‘Performance’ Horse Classes
Dear PRIDE Members/Officers,
I am writing you regarding the plight of the Tennessee Walking horses that was filmed by HSUS and aired on ABC’s Nightline on 5/16/12, of which I am sure that you are aware.
The torment that these horses have been suffering since the 1950’s is an abomination, not only to the Tennessee Walking Horses breed, but is also a huge black eye on the USA and the states that allow the Big Lick TWH classes to be held. The “Performance Horse” showing classes need to be eliminated – no stacks, no chains in the show ring.
As an owner of a TWH myself, I have boycotted any and all associations having to do with the Tennessee Walking Horse breed, simply because I cannot, in good conscience, financially support the corruption and torture that goes along with the Big Lick scene in the Walking horse community.
Should there come a time when all of the major TWH organizations ELIMINATE the Performance Horse classes from ALL show bills, and get serious about outing, banning and turning over for prosecution ALL of the abusers in the breed, then I would gladly join the ranks of membership, spending fees and possibly even donations to this breed that I have come to adore.
The world is watching – you cannot hide these hideous acts behind the curtain any longer. The Organization has said for years that they are “working on cleaning up”. WE are saying, NO MORE. If you will not stop this insanity, than we will pressure our politicians for Legislature that WILL.
Sincerely,
Charlotte M. Smith
Tennessee Walking Horse owner
