Terranova-Lauren Nicholson what happened?

[OverandOnward]

I will say this, just for what it is worth. IME it is not uncommon for volunteers at warm-up rings to be given important instructions, but to not know how things work. Of course that can vary depending on the venue, the volunteer, and who is coordinating volunteers with little or no experience.

I’ve seen riders sent too early from warm-up to do their dressage test or XC/SJ round. That seems to be a common error. The inexperienced volunteer is in an important role but doesn’t know the ride time rules. And IMO it is the fault of whoever should be coordinating the information that volunteers need to do the job.

When that happens, a rider can normally point this out and be allowed to stay in warm-up until their ride time (that’s a rule, too, of course). I’ve been in that position myself.

A volunteer may have just put their name in to be helpful, knowing little or nothing about the sport, and is handed a clipboard with very brief instructions. Along with the admonition that a primary mission is to get riders to the in-gate (as it were) as promptly as possible. The volunteer is inclined to take that admonition seriously as having been given authority over this task, and given to understand that this is what the event needs from them.

While having never been informed about the ride time rules. They may have the ride times, but not know the rules, and think that the competitors move on one after the other as they might have experienced with other sports. This volunteer situation is so common, IME. It is why the USEA has some videos on how to do volunteer jobs, that volunteers can watch in the days before the event. Assuming the videos are still up on the website.

When the rider is questioning the volunteer, then it is up to everyone to have been informed as to what to do when a question comes up, who to call for help and information. And that official needs to be available on the radio promptly, because so often time is of the essence. When that process doesn’t happen is when things can get sticky for the rider and the volunteer.

I have no idea if that is what happened in LN’s situation. But it is easy to imagine given what has been described in this thread.

[blue_heron]

@Texarkana

Rick Wallace, Briggs Suartt, and Caroline Pamukcu are taking undeserved heat.

I respectfully disagree. While people might be a little harsh, all three of these people have had deserved criticisms pile up season after season. Most of the complaints and concerns I’ve seen posted here about them have been completely valid.

[EventerAJ]

I think it’s important to note that humans make mistakes. Volunteers make mistakes. Riders make mistakes. Riders can treat volunteers well 95% of the time, and maybe lose their cool on rare occasion after a particularly frustrating instance. If this were to happen, I hope a proper apology would be issued.

Not excusing ANYONE’s behavior, but FEI events are categorically different from horse trials. It is much more stressful, much more expensive, with some very important qualifications, years-long goals, and limited timelines resting on every single one. It can make otherwise sane, sensible, respectful competitors overreact to (perceived, preventable) circumstances. This is NEVER a justification for rude or inappropriate behavior toward a volunteer or official, but it might explain why a given competitor is cheerful, friendly, and typically goes out of their way for volunteers at a national horse trial…yet behave less friendly (NOT rude, but perhaps “aloof”) at an FEI event.

We don’t have stewards at regular horse trials, but they are present at FEI events and, at times, can seem less than helpful from a rider’s perspective. It’s a weird power dynamic sometimes; officials may seem to be acting in the FEI’s best interest, as opposed to the horses’ or competitors’ best interest. (we are used to USEF show officials, whom most of the time are Horse First, Competitor Second, and organization after that) Stewards are NOT volunteers, they are paid and required to have a thorough knowledge of FEI rules. Riders get frustrated when FEI rules change by the minute; sometimes the steward is correct and the rider is “caught out” (causing rider’s anger, not the official’s fault); sometimes the rider is correct, and the official is wrong, but it may or may not work out in the rider’s favor because, FEI. (thinking of the myler combo bit fiasco) Unfortunately these scenarios are not uncommon at some FEI events.

Personally I always, ALWAYS thank each and every volunteer I come across at any show, at any level. I say thank you to the starters, the warmup stewards, the jump crew, every jump judge I pass while walking my course, the office staff… even the score runner as I was trotting around the outside of my dressage ring at a CCI2*L (that was indeed noticed, and NOTED on my dressage test by one of the judges commending me for my gratitude). But I will also say I am infinitely more focused, and stressed, at FEI competitions, as I would expect many competitors are, and people as a species don’t always handle stress in the best way possible.

[Mounted]

All of that makes sense, and it’s important to keep in mind. But if a competitor were rude to a volunteer or official in the heat of the moment due to the extra stress associated with FEI-ness, then I would expect the social media follow up to be an apology rather than a complaint. (Or nothing…in the scenario you propose, a private apology or even discussion followed by no public statement at all would have been understandable, too.)

[EventerAJ]

I 100% agree.

I know we’re curious to know all sides of this story. Getting vague glimpses of half-interpretations does nothing to explain or understand what really happened. And despite our thirst for “the truth” (and, let’s be real, “the gossip”), I don’t expect a full explanation to ever happen, at least not outside of The Circles…for which I’m sure each Inner Circle has its own version of truth.

[FitToBeTied]

@OverandOnward

I’ve seen riders sent too early from warm-up to do their dressage test or XC/SJ round. That seems to be a common error. The inexperienced volunteer is in an important role but doesn’t know the ride time rules. And IMO it is the fault of whoever should be coordinating the information that volunteers need to do the job.

Its up to the rider. I’ve had several times both in dressage and stadium where an event was running ahead or they have gaps in the schedule (due to eliminations) where a coordinator/volunteer told to go to the ring. I’ve said no. I know my times and no that I can’t be forced to go earlier. An upper level rider knows this and she just had to say no and stay on her schedule. Its the rider’s responsibility to stay on schedule, just as it is not to be late.

Regarding volunteers being yelled at. I think riders that do this should be DQ’d. I stopped volunteering after doing it for 20 years because the riders themselves would not volunteer (this is an old and oft repeated discussion).

[Kirikou]

@EventerAJ

I know we’re curious to know all sides of this story. Getting vague glimpses of half-interpretations does nothing to explain or understand what really happened. And despite our thirst for “the truth” (and, let’s be real, “the gossip”), I don’t expect a full explanation to ever happen, at least not outside of The Circles…for which I’m sure each Inner Circle has its own version of truth.

Totally agree with this!
But then, what was LN’s purpose in posting on her socials? She had to know she would invite gossip/speculation?

[JenJ]

@Texarkana

This is the kind of stuff that happens behind the scenes. I don’t know @GrumpyOldMan and am not doubting the retelling, but there are always three sides to every story.

The fact that this is the first post from this poster makes be a bit hesitant to fully believe a report of such terrible behaviour by an ULR with an otherwise decent reputation. It would be awfully stupid for LN to post as she did, if she was the one engaged in bad behaviour.

[MNEventer]

If GrumpyOldMan’s post is accurate, then that is very bad behavior by LN and I would agree she should apologize to the volunteers and issue a public statement. I understand being upset if someone made a mistake that she felt adversely affected her round, and adrenaline being an amplifier of reactions. Not saying I agree with it, saying I understand it. But again, that’s if the report is accurate. Given that it’s a brand new poster, a higher level of skepticism may be warranted.

[McGurk]

I also have a hard time believing that a volunteer at an FEI event, working the start, wouldn’t know you can’t compel riders to go earlier then their assigned time. Every unrecognized and recognized lower level horse trial I’ve been to has been clear on this rule.

Or that if an upper level rider happened to encounter a volunteer who didn’t know the rule, they wouldn’t say “Check with your TD. It’s my decision to go early or not; I want to go at my assigned time.” And that would be the end of it.

[leighbo009]

@McGurk

I also have a hard time believing that a volunteer at an FEI event, working the start, wouldn’t know you can’t compel riders to go earlier then their assigned time. Every unrecognized and recognized lower level horse trial I’ve been to has been clear on this rule.

Or that if an upper level rider happened to encounter a volunteer who didn’t know the rule, they wouldn’t say “Check with your TD. It’s my decision to go early or not; I want to go at my assigned time.” And that would be the end of it.

I wonder actually though if it was more of:
“hey, you are welcome to go to the start” warmup volunteer tells her. Or “we are running ahead, you will be able to go 10 minutes early if you want”
She thinks okay, sweet I can start early, let me get 1-2 last warmup jumps in and I’ll head over
She heads over a couple minutes early
Starter says no, you can’t go until your start time, this break was built into the schedule to allow [restroom break, volunteer change, score pick up, etc], so you still have 9 minutes before I can let you out of the start box
So then she has to return to the warmup, get her horse ready to go out again & then may end up rushed to start. She can’t keep his blood up for 9 minutes waiting for her start time so she has to let him relax and then try to get his blood back up again.

This was my understanding based on the information that grumpy man gave. So not that she wasn’t allowed to wait until her ride time, but instead wasn’t allowed to go early even though there was a gap in the schedule.

[McGurk]

@leighbo009, That makes more sense, thanks!

[trubandloki]

I would hope that the warm-up ring volunteer would have been notified of things like that in the schedule.

[millerra]

I totally get your point - just replying on the “keeping the blood up”…

I would have, on my low level OTTB the complete opposite problem… If we head to the start box, we had better be leaving soon or we’d have an absolute temper tantrum. No joke. There wouldn’t be going back to the warm up w/ out a meltdown. just sayin’… That whole scenario makes my blood run cold… (and yes, I love my TB; he’s awesome on XC - he just has a wee bit of problem w/ managing his inner dragon)

[enjoytheride]

Agree. Rick and Briggs got dragged in for totally separate issues that had nothing to do with anything Lauren said because this thread has been bananas.

As for CP, it’s entirely possibly for a rider to both have their own moment where they were not very nice to a volunteer, AND have an issue with another rider doing something shady. I heard that CP was accused of putting something in her horse’s mouths to lubricate them/keep them from getting cuts/make foam. I have no idea what, if anything, is true.

[blue_heron]

CP I have heard many stories about being too rough on difficult or tired horses, on the ground and in the saddle, and being rude to officials/volunteers/etc. She sometimes comes off as super entitled and her horses being disposable. I assume she was the one Lauren was complaining about. More generally her complaints might apply to Briggs.

[AmmyHour926]

This thread is covering no less that 75 topics.

[blue_heron]

That’s what happens when people make incredibly vague social media posts.

[rogueknits]

@MNEventer

BTW, I think USEF should also limit the number of classes that HJ and dressage horses are able to be entered in per show.

There are already limits in USEF dressage–horses can’t compete in more than 3 rides per day at 4th level and below and 2 rides per day above 4th level. My Training Level guy is ready for a nap after 2 rides, so if I even attempted a 3rd I’d get pretty lousy scores.

[Baybear]

Perhaps it wasn’t caught by the stewards because one of her grooms was riding/competing his own horse at Terranova as well as another rider who rides w/ CP?