Terranova-Lauren Nicholson what happened?

[Marigold]

@dmveventer

Her business practices, her treatment of her horses, and how she behaves at competitions may be fair game for discussion on this forum, but her decision on when to go back to work is really no one’s business.

I don’t think it’s wrong to discuss any unnecessary pressure the sport puts on her, or any other new mother - she discussed pressure to keep the rides and maintain the business she built, but there is also pressure around world ranking points (for no good reason that I know of, they are not frozen in eventing), etc.

The decision around how to manage her family is her own, and no reasonable third party should be butting in on that, but if she or any other new mother made a decision about returning to sport not because they wanted to but because they felt they had to, that’s absolutely something I’d like to discuss (perhaps on another thread) and something the sport needs to address. We are so proud of the level playing field between men and women. We’ve got to walk the walk.

[dmveventer]

That’s fine, but that’s a very different conversation than the comment I was responding to. I don’t see how criticizing her for “risking her neck” or bringing her child to competitions is relevant to making the sport friendlier for working mothers. Those factors would still be there even if she’d taken a year off before going back. That comment was also very specific to women, and if we’re really talking about a level playing field we should be imposing the same rules on new fathers too.

[Not_Your_Janice]

I used to warm up the Grand Prix jumpers when I was a groom/barn manager even though I can barely jump 3’6" on a good day.

[jvanrens]

@M1ssmouse

It’s absolutely toxic praising women back competing so soon after having a baby, I think it’s sad, you never get those early months back, racing around to events with a baby tow, risking your neck xc is not something to be admired.

I just think this needs to be quoted, just because…

And to comment, as much as I love the early months, to be honest, my early memories of them my daughter spent most of them sleeping. I loved them, but if that spring had been nicer that year, I would have been dragging her to the barn so I could get equine time.

[SadieRidingHorses]

@M1ssmouse

It’s absolutely toxic praising women back competing so soon after having a baby, I think it’s sad, you never get those early months back, racing around to events with a baby tow, risking your neck xc is not something to be admired.

@Ghazzu and @dmveventer really summed it up in their responses to this point of view. I’ll just add that it takes a really special kind of outdated, myopic world view to judge a woman’s choices as harshly as this. Many women don’t have the PRIVILEGE to give up their professional lives, but regardless of need, women do not give up the RIGHT to having goals and ambitions when they become mothers. So many better things to do than judge a woman for continuing to strive professionally (or not!) after childbirth.

[junesj68]

thank you!! Finally someone explicitly said what actually happened without beating around the bush

[M1ssmouse]

Lady rider killed this weekend in a warm up in the UK leaving a young baby. People can take all the risks they want, I’m only giving my opinion, and yes it is of course different for men, they do not get pregnant or give birth. I’m married to a pro rider for 30 years, years of injuries and worrying about the worst happening, last year alone one eventer killed and 2 left with life changing injuries. It’s extremely dangerous and that’s a choice they make, I just don’t agree and that’s my prerogative too.

[AMWookey]

Wow this topic has sidetracked big time.

From a non American, non parent perspective… it’s absolute shit that most American woman, whether professional riders or professionals in the work place, have to choose between career or staying home after a child. It should be an absolute right to have at least 6 months home, with zero impact to career or progression, paid, for each parent. It’s mind boggling that a country who puts so much stock into babies and people having babies, can’t do a universal paid maternity or paternity leave.

I know the UK has something for riders that are injured, and I think that other countries should look into something similar so that riders can start families and take that time.

[FitToBeTied]

@AMWookey

I know the UK has something for riders that are injured, and I think that other countries should look into something similar so that riders can start families and take that time.

The difference is that in the UK, riding is a much bigger part of the culture. In the US, if you combined every riding discipline, it would be one of the most minor of sports. It’s estimated that in the US 30 million people will ride a horse annually. That is less than 10% of the population. The competitive riding population is far less than that. In 2021, USEF had just over 200,000 members of which 85,000 competed. So, that is .025% of the US population. You will never see a program in the US that pays professional riders for injury times or other medical reasons.

The other problem is the 90% of the population that has nothing to do with horses, view horses as luxury items.

[Equibrit]

@AMWookey

it’s absolute shit that most American woman, whether professional riders or professionals in the work place, have to choose between career or staying home after a child. It should be an absolute right to have at least 6 months home, with zero impact to career or progression, paid, for each parent.

It should be available for ALL.

[anonevent]

I don’t think that they couldn’t do it skill-wise, but there are scenarios where a BNR might have to make a choice between competing one or two additional horses, vs having adequate time and endurance to warm up all of the horses properly.

If five owners want their horse to be ridden at the same trials, or the rider/seller wants this competition on a horse’s record to increase their sales price, and the rider/seller feels easily replaceable, and the rider/seller has recently carried and birthed an entire human being out of their body -maybe someone could feel tempted (or even professionally obligated) to break rules.

I don’t even know…if another rider were identified on a horse in warmup, what is the consequence? Is the punishment as low stakes as that specific horse being disqualified from that specific phase? Would the competitor on record be disqualified for the rest of the event and not be able to compete their other horses? Additional sanctions?

I don’t think we all need surgically installed microchip implants so volunteers can scan us. A volunteer could check ID (cue BNRs hiring grooms who could pass as their twin), put a stamp on the rider’s hand that matches a stamp on their number etc. when they check in at the event, etc. It’s not realistic to expect an untrained volunteer to try to recognize every rider and horse by memory and confront them.

[Sheasmom2]

It’s toxic to judge her choices.

[millerra]

Honestly asking - why do you think it’s different for men because women can get pregnant and give birth? Are you implying, then, that they are the more important parent? Or women need to be “protected” just because they can give birth?

[LSBC]

This is a joke, right? It is not a woman’s job to curb her desires and take no risks while the child’s father does whatever he wants. You could make the exact same claim about a single dad. This is an unfortunate worldview.

Further, if riding is your career, you probably don’t have maternity leave or things like that. You HAVE to ride in order to support your family.

[FitToBeTied]

A trainer is a sole proprietorship business. If they are not working then they are not making money. My jump trainer was back giving lessons but not riding within two weeks. It’s not so much as men versus women but about career choices. So the only medical benefits they have are the ones they pay for unless they have a spouse or significant other that can provide them.

[enjoytheride]

So you think that once a woman has a child she should, quit eventing? Forever? It’s not like the sport gets less dangerous as the rider’s human baby gets older.

[enjoytheride]

The rumor is she’s using dish soap in the horses mouths

[blue_heron]

Sorry to be so naive but what would this do? Foam? What does that hide?

[dmveventer]

Every death is tragic regardless of gender or parental status. It makes no difference to me whether the woman you’re referring to had a young baby or not - her life is just as valuable either way. Judging mothers to a different standard based on outdated ideas of what’s acceptable behavior for women is deeply problematic. It’s really not different for men, they’re just as responsible for their children as the mothers are, and childless people aren’t more disposable than parents. Everyone gets to make their own decisions on what works for them and their families.

If you wanted to argue that no one should be running x-country at that level then I could respect that (I’d still disagree, but at least it’s a valid argument), but your insistence that it’s somehow different for mothers is sexist and problematic. It completely undermines the equal playing field between men and women that our sport aims for.

[TXnGA]

@summerfridays

To elaborate, she was seen getting overly aggressive with a horse at Terranova because it wouldn’t go through the arches into SJ. She also had grooms riding her horses in violation of FEI rules, and then when told not to, she just had them go elsewhere on the property to ride. She’s been putting something in her horses’ mouths to get them to foam and hide teeth grinding for a while, also not permitted, but they haven’t been able to prove anything.

Can second this