Tested positive for chronic Lyme's - looking for others w/similar clinical symptoms

[AMT7180]

I will try to make this somewhat brief!
Horse is a 13 yo OTTB. I stopped riding early June due to pregnancy. His whole routine has changed and he had new riders starting in June. He has become increasingly unhappy under saddle. Started with him being unbalanced/uncomfortable after jumps (it had been about a year since he had jumped). He’s not lame. He’s shaking his head, somewhat violently and also yanking the reins out of the hands. This is mostly happening when tracking to the right. Lunging he is comfortable to the left and when you trot to the right he wants to stop and go back left. This has progressed a bit to being uncomfortably both directions, but significantly worse to the right.

Horse has been seen by 2 vets, chiropractor (ribcage was twisted), and dentist (teeth were a bit sharp but not bad). Initially discomfort with jumping was the only concern and I had delayed hock injections on him since once you start, you can’t stop. Injected his hocks at the end of June. July was really when the head shaking started to come into play and he is now unridable.

My best friend is a horse vet and she looked at him for me a few weeks ago and confirmed he is not lame. Found that he was muscle sore in his back (more on right) and neck (more on left). Also found that he had some soreness in the TMJ, especially on right. All makes sense that he would be more uncomfortable going right. Prescribed 2 weeks of no work, robaxin 15 pills 2 times daily, with 1 week of 2g bute AM. We pulled blood and tested for Lymes. Came back with a low positive for chronic infection; however antibody levels for chronic infection were significantly higher than levels in previous test from 2014. So we are treating with doxy for 30 days (8/24-9/24).

Fast forward to this week, and the trainer rode him Monday and he was fine at the walk but very uncomfortable (“thrashing” as she put it) at the trot - did not attempt to canter. She tried lunging him (left) instead of being on his back, same result; then tried without the saddle, same result. At this point he had only been on the doxy since the previous Wed (so less than 5 days) but had finished his course of robaxin.

I started to rack my brain to try to think of all sorts of different things that could be triggering this behavior. Photosensitivity? He did have a few good rides/lunging sessions early in the morning in July. Allergies? His eyes were a mess this summer (watery, drippy) until I started to keep him fly mask on even when inside (was previously only during night turnout). Is the TMJ really the issue? Is this all because he had a leaser who started riding in June as I slowed down as my pregnancy progressed? Was she being too aggressive? She was taking regular lessons with my trainer but who knows what is happening when people ride on their own.

Chiropractor was out last week while he was on rest and said she didn’t find any major issues. I had her work on his TMJ a bit and also his neck. She found one spot in his back that had not been previously sore and adjusted. Confirmed ribcage was not twisted.

So my real question, has anyone had a horse with Lyme’s be much more unhappy/reluctant one direction vs the other? This morning I wanted to give him a good experience and just wanted to do 10 minutes of walking on the lunge each way. I started at 6 30 AM so the sun was low, no dust since the ground was dewey, and did not have a happy horse. To the left he was pretty good. Tried to trot a few times but he came back to the walk quickly. Was hard to tell is he was maybe just up from very inconsistent work. Then we went to the right and it seemed like he wanted to run from something and then would just turn and look at me. Very sad. Very heartbreaking - clearly trying to tell me it hurts to go right. Again, this is just when trying to get him to walk. I even just tried to trick him into walking to the right by leading him from his right side and he got frustrated.

There is no head shaking in the barn and I have no noticed it when he’s turned out, though I board at a facility so he is not in my backyard. He’s not particularly sensitive to brushing, in fact is really loving massage these days. Lots of chewing/yawning. I ordered him a “cap” from Back on Track that is supposed to help with TMJ pain.

My gut is telling me that I should give him a few more weeks to let the doxy take effect, but I am feeling like I am down to the wire since my due date is fast approaching. I have limited time where I can still make him my priority but I also don’t want to go down a rabbit hole and start thinking about other diagnoses with the vets while still treating at least 1 known/confirmed issue (Lyme’s).

Thanks in advance for any support, suggestions, etc! I am trying so hard to help him!

[flashwhitelock]

Lyme

[QUOTE=AMT7180;8824259]
I will try to make this somewhat brief!
Horse is a 13 yo OTTB. I stopped riding early June due to pregnancy. His whole routine has changed and he had new riders starting in June. He has become increasingly unhappy under saddle. Started with him being unbalanced/uncomfortable after jumps (it had been about a year since he had jumped). He’s not lame. He’s shaking his head, somewhat violently and also yanking the reins out of the hands. This is mostly happening when tracking to the right. Lunging he is comfortable to the left and when you trot to the right he wants to stop and go back left. This has progressed a bit to being uncomfortably both directions, but significantly worse to the right.

Horse has been seen by 2 vets, chiropractor (ribcage was twisted), and dentist (teeth were a bit sharp but not bad). Initially discomfort with jumping was the only concern and I had delayed hock injections on him since once you start, you can’t stop. Injected his hocks at the end of June. July was really when the head shaking started to come into play and he is now unridable.

My best friend is a horse vet and she looked at him for me a few weeks ago and confirmed he is not lame. Found that he was muscle sore in his back (more on right) and neck (more on left). Also found that he had some soreness in the TMJ, especially on right. All makes sense that he would be more uncomfortable going right. Prescribed 2 weeks of no work, robaxin 15 pills 2 times daily, with 1 week of 2g bute AM. We pulled blood and tested for Lymes. Came back with a low positive for chronic infection; however antibody levels for chronic infection were significantly higher than levels in previous test from 2014. So we are treating with doxy for 30 days (8/24-9/24).

Fast forward to this week, and the trainer rode him Monday and he was fine at the walk but very uncomfortable (“thrashing” as she put it) at the trot - did not attempt to canter. She tried lunging him (left) instead of being on his back, same result; then tried without the saddle, same result. At this point he had only been on the doxy since the previous Wed (so less than 5 days) but had finished his course of robaxin.

I started to rack my brain to try to think of all sorts of different things that could be triggering this behavior. Photosensitivity? He did have a few good rides/lunging sessions early in the morning in July. Allergies? His eyes were a mess this summer (watery, drippy) until I started to keep him fly mask on even when inside (was previously only during night turnout). Is the TMJ really the issue? Is this all because he had a leaser who started riding in June as I slowed down as my pregnancy progressed? Was she being too aggressive? She was taking regular lessons with my trainer but who knows what is happening when people ride on their own.

Chiropractor was out last week while he was on rest and said she didn’t find any major issues. I had her work on his TMJ a bit and also his neck. She found one spot in his back that had not been previously sore and adjusted. Confirmed ribcage was not twisted.

So my real question, has anyone had a horse with Lyme’s be much more unhappy/reluctant one direction vs the other? This morning I wanted to give him a good experience and just wanted to do 10 minutes of walking on the lunge each way. I started at 6 30 AM so the sun was low, no dust since the ground was dewey, and did not have a happy horse. To the left he was pretty good. Tried to trot a few times but he came back to the walk quickly. Was hard to tell is he was maybe just up from very inconsistent work. Then we went to the right and it seemed like he wanted to run from something and then would just turn and look at me. Very sad. Very heartbreaking - clearly trying to tell me it hurts to go right. Again, this is just when trying to get him to walk. I even just tried to trick him into walking to the right by leading him from his right side and he got frustrated.

There is no head shaking in the barn and I have no noticed it when he’s turned out, though I board at a facility so he is not in my backyard. He’s not particularly sensitive to brushing, in fact is really loving massage these days. Lots of chewing/yawning. I ordered him a “cap” from Back on Track that is supposed to help with TMJ pain.

My gut is telling me that I should give him a few more weeks to let the doxy take effect, but I am feeling like I am down to the wire since my due date is fast approaching. I have limited time where I can still make him my priority but I also don’t want to go down a rabbit hole and start thinking about other diagnoses with the vets while still treating at least 1 known/confirmed issue (Lyme’s).

Thanks in advance for any support, suggestions, etc! I am trying so hard to help him![/QUOTE]

When you are saying testing for Chronic Lyme, are you referring to the the Cornell test? I’m in an endemic area for Lyme and have a horse that has had Lyme multiple times. My daughters horse had slightly different symptoms but that is not unheard of for Lyme disease. It does take time for the antibiotics to work but I also would be concerned if he has had Lyme before and you are dealing with an old chronic infection rather than a new infection that you may want a different antibiotic such as minocycline (or so I was told by my vet). I hope it works out for you in treating for Lyme. Good luck.

[Simkie]

This sounds an AWFUL lot like the neck arthritis problems many of us here have been through. Have you had a neuro exam performed?

[AMT7180]

Yes, the Cornell test. I’m in PA and it’s endemic here as well, unfortunately. He did not previously test positive (equivocal results) and was not treated previously. I had the test done in 2014 because he was having some hind end stiffness that ended up being related to saddle fit. This time he tested in the positive range. Had one vet tell me that he didn’t need treatment because it was a low positive, but my vet friend who actually pulled the blood recommended treatment since it was elevated from 2014 levels (OSPF: 1407 vs 945 in 2014).

[AMT7180]

Not yet (re neuro exam). I just spoke to my local vet and filled her in on everything and am scheduling an appt for him at the end of his doxy treatment. I too am starting to wonder if the soreness in his neck (about 8-10 inches behind his poll) is a big part of the problem. I’ve been rubbing linament on the area for a few weeks and doing carrot stretches (no problem there) and also started him on a new supplement that has condroiton, glucosamin, msm, HA, so that should help areas where he has arthritis. He did have an incident with one of the girls working in the barn at the beginning of July…they went to put on his halter to turn out for the evening and some how the lever on the throat latch got stuck/attached to his stall gate. He apparently lifted the stall gate up and off the hinges and dragged it into the aisle. Fortunately he wasn’t hurt and neither was the girl…however, maybe he was hurt and tweaked his neck and TMJ in the process. Seems totally possible.

UPDATE - new to forums and my responses are not posting directly back to who I’d like - sorry! Trying to figure this out.

[AMT7180]

Simkie - what have you found is effective for managing neck arthritis?

[Joozybug]

I live in New England and 1407 for this area is probably in the normal range. I bought a horse and his OspF value was 15,000. Treated with doxy and tested 6 months later and it came down to 7000. Something tells me it’s not Lyme related.

[syreino]

Your horses OspF is not really very high, and not much of a change from 2014. It could be low grade chronic Lyme, or it could be something else. Lyme affects each horse very individually I have come to learn.

The experience with my mare was behavioral changes (couldn’t catch her in the field, she WOULDN’T wear a bridle, but a hackamore was okay, breaking loose from the cross ties, etc … very unlike her behaviors).

We started with having the dentist out, who found nothing. So progressed to neuro exam - only slight findings. We were at New Bolton, so they did an overnight video observation and found nothing of consequence. They all thought I was making things up I think - but in desperation I asked for Lyme and EPM tests to be run, because I knew there was a medical reason my 13 year old mare’s personality changed so drastically. Lyme titer came back over 5000 OspF, they poo-poo’d the values at New Bolton unfortunately, but my regular vet said he’d treat at that level.

We started with Doxy and saw no behavioral changes and her OspF value was exactly the same after treatment (and my vet finally saw her behavior, so at least someone else could corroborate the behavior changes). We then went to IV Oxytet, and within about two days I saw glimpses of her old self in there. After 10 days, her OspF number had come down about 15% if I recall. So we hit her with minocycline afterwards. Last test after treatment, she’d had an 82% reduction in her OspF value and her behavior was getting back to normal.

We’re now 8 months from treatment, and she’s mostly her loving self again, I can catch her easily, she will wear a bridle/bit again - but she now has a bit of a head tossing thing going on when on the bit that I hope will go away as we do it more often (I just put her back in the bit recently and we don’t ride every ride in it yet).

By the way, you are looking for a reduction in titer of 50% or more to indicate that the treatment is working. I think that you will know by the reason you started questioning, whatever that behavior is, starts to go away/be less visible. I could tell the titer results by her personality, and I know if anything comes back again to test and treat with minocycline right away.

Good luck.

[awaywego]

I’m just bringing back my 11 yr old TB gelding to work after several months off and aggressive treatment for chronic Lyme (very similar to syreino’s treatment protocol). His back was VERY sore. So far, his behavior has not really changed, but you could argue that many months off work could make him a spooky a-hole too. I’ve also 1) had the chiropractor out, 2) put hind shoes on, 3) started on pentosan. He has the hocks of a regular 11 year old horse - so there are some arthritic changes, but nothing noteworthy. He also has been re-x-rayed for kissing spine (no changes since his 2013 x-rays). Personality change is a huge struggle, and it’s hard to tell if it’s a physical reaction to pain elsewhere (like his back, hocks, or something else still unknown) or if personality change is it’s own symptom of Lyme.

Lyme feels like one giant rabbit hole to me, because it seems like it can aggravate existing issues, and there is a lot of chicken/egg guessing (in my experience.).

Wondering if we should have a Lyme support group thread for all of us struggling with the myriad permutations of issues.

Perhaps a chiropractor would be helpful with checking out his neck and maybe identify other areas that could be causing him to struggle more in one direction. I have a pony that is helped by regular chiro adjustments to keep a right lead.

[Simkie]

[QUOTE=AMT7180;8824383]
Simkie - what have you found is effective for managing neck arthritis?[/QUOTE]

Not a whole lot, unfortunately. I got six great months out of the first set of neck injections, but only a few weeks out of the second. Retired the horse. She’s not progressed and she’s not in pain, but she is definitely not normal behind.

[riopony]

You are describing my horse!!! I posted a similar thread about 2 months ago but got limited answers and was told to check for EPM.

My guys OSPF value was 3146. He has been on minocycline (full dose) for 8 weeks. Prior to that he was accidently on a half dose for a month. We are almost finished with this last bottle but some symptoms are still there so I am concerned I may have more going on.

His symptoms, some I didn’t realize were symptoms at the time, were:
Not wanting to trot, mostly to the left I believe
Cantered like a washing machine
Started head shaking as soon as we could ride outside
Became photosensitive
Hypersensitive to touch and noise
General spookiness
Back sore
Shifting lamenesses
Not his playful self
Rearing under saddle
Similar lunge line behavior as yours

A lot of this I explained away since I hadn’t had him even a year yet. I thought he hated bugs when the head flipping and photosensitivity started.

Most of the symptoms are gone and we have started back under saddle (with a brand new custom saddle that fits!). We slowly worked up to 40 mins total with about 10-15 mins of trot. We added canter in and he was feeling really pretty good. We just did a lesson about two weeks ago and he was awesome. He had a hard time doing complete circles (I would stay away from lunging if I were you, that is a lot of work), but otherwise really tried and was happy. He had two days off and has gone downhill again.

So now we are walking 30 mins and doing a couple trots on the long sides. He had started acting like he was uncomfortable and wanting to pop up again. He gets anxious when we hit the short side of the arena and gets nervous going down slight declines as well. He has also been stumbling here and there. It is hard to tell if it is fitness, soreness or neuro related. I am seeing how the next week goes before I have a vet out to do a neuro/ lameness eval.

The meds did help tremendously, but it wasn’t until about a month of the full dose that he was really starting to come around!

[AMT7180]

thanks awaywego - he has been seen by a chiropractor twice in the last two months. First time his whole ribcage was twisted, second time much better and less adjustments needed. I did have her work on his TMJ and neck a bit more after the vet had identified that area as a problem. I fully believe in the benefits of a good chiropractor!

[AMT7180]

Interesting. Definitely some similarities though I haven’t seen any personality changes on the ground/in the barn. I also have not noticed any stumbling. I am really hoping that a lot of this clears up with a few more weeks of doxy and also the therapeutic Back on Track cap for the TMJ. I have a vet appt on the books for him in a few weeks for another evaluation though if he is not improved. Until then I am just going to let him be and just hang out in the field.

[QUOTE=riopony;8825679]
You are describing my horse!!! I posted a similar thread about 2 months ago but got limited answers and was told to check for EPM.

My guys OSPF value was 3146. He has been on minocycline (full dose) for 8 weeks. Prior to that he was accidently on a half dose for a month. We are almost finished with this last bottle but some symptoms are still there so I am concerned I may have more going on.

His symptoms, some I didn’t realize were symptoms at the time, were:
Not wanting to trot, mostly to the left I believe
Cantered like a washing machine
Started head shaking as soon as we could ride outside
Became photosensitive
Hypersensitive to touch and noise
General spookiness
Back sore
Shifting lamenesses
Not his playful self
Rearing under saddle
Similar lunge line behavior as yours

A lot of this I explained away since I hadn’t had him even a year yet. I thought he hated bugs when the head flipping and photosensitivity started.

Most of the symptoms are gone and we have started back under saddle (with a brand new custom saddle that fits!). We slowly worked up to 40 mins total with about 10-15 mins of trot. We added canter in and he was feeling really pretty good. We just did a lesson about two weeks ago and he was awesome. He had a hard time doing complete circles (I would stay away from lunging if I were you, that is a lot of work), but otherwise really tried and was happy. He had two days off and has gone downhill again.

So now we are walking 30 mins and doing a couple trots on the long sides. He had started acting like he was uncomfortable and wanting to pop up again. He gets anxious when we hit the short side of the arena and gets nervous going down slight declines as well. He has also been stumbling here and there. It is hard to tell if it is fitness, soreness or neuro related. I am seeing how the next week goes before I have a vet out to do a neuro/ lameness eval.

The meds did help tremendously, but it wasn’t until about a month of the full dose that he was really starting to come around![/QUOTE]

[ladipus]

Where in Pa are you located …I highly recommend Dr Foster at Unionville Equine or Dr Amy Johnson from New Bolten Center…I also would recommend lookong into neck issues

[suzyq]

Have you xrayed this horses feet? My guy had thin soles, not picked up in exams by two vets. Not lame but lots of head tossing and sore back.

[cayuse]

Have you looked into photic headshaking syndrome at all?

[mvp]

It’s Lyme Disease, as in Lyme, Connecticut. Not Lymes or Lyme’s. And not Lyme’s/Lymes in the same post.

[Lady_Eboshi]

[QUOTE=Simkie;8824341]
This sounds an AWFUL lot like the neck arthritis problems many of us here have been through. Have you had a neuro exam performed?[/QUOTE]

THIS^. Or the hocks.

[CrotchetyDQ]

I feel your pain, sister!

I do not have anything to add about Lyme or neck issues (yeah, I have dealt with both, ugh) BUT I do want to put out there that PA has a tick borne cootie that acts very similar to Lyme (sometimes like anaplasmosis, but mostly Lyme-like) with no test for diagnosis. The good news is, the treatment is the same, although minocycline does cross the brain/blood barrier so is actually much more effective on neuro cases and is the current antibiotic of choice. Doxy seems to only work on very recent infections these days.

One of my BFFs is an equine vet in the area, and she has successfully treated “Lyme” cases that did not test on the multiplex assay from Cornell, my mare included.

FWIW, my girl tested equivocal OspF on blood draw, but positive OspF on spinal tap. She was neuro enough we did a myleogram (negative, no impingement) after finding some moderate arthritis in her neck. Sixty days of mino made her 95%+ improved, and we did retreat 18 months out with 30 days of mino when the subtle ‘warning signs’ reappeared.

If I were you, I would drop the money on neck and hock rads, if for nothing other than peace of mind. You MIGHT be barking up the wrong tree, and mino ain’t cheap.

[LookmaNohands]

Treat him for Lyme again with something more than Doxy. The bug that causes Lyme will protect itself from any antibiotic after just a couple of weeks. You have to keep changing it up. Several vets and human docs now know this and will rotate antibiotics or herbal treatments for several months.

I did the Cowden Support Program for nine months. Knocked the hell out of it. I was fine for a year and a half but now I am wondering if I should do it again. It is a VERY tough bug to kill! It also doesn’t test well. I don’t think you can trust the tests. Plus there are other bugs out there that have not been identified yet.

EFF the ticks!!!