I don’t know who that poor wretch is, but it’s NOT me!!! 
and we DARE NOT say she has bad position or incorrect principals… 
the same woman riding THE SAME welsh cob/arab mare in Courbette.
The mem’ry of your Saint-like life, It spurs me on through storm and strife; And often at the Throne of Grace, So plain and clear I see your face.
the word bit** came into use later. the earlier term was sl**.
you can read old books on dogs and the terms were at one point not swearing at all. they became swearing recently, they didn’t start that way.
neither did fu**. it was a german word for what farm animals do to make more little farm animals. it never referred to hominids and wasn’t swearing.
nor was sh**. it was an old english word for what farm animals make, other than more little farm animals.
basically nearly all obscene words were once just ordinary usage. in english there was a caste system reflected in the language. the old english anglo saxon words wound up becoming swearing, originally they were just how poor people and farmers talked. eventually the norman french and latinic words became proper and the low class anglo saxon words became swearing.
it’s even in terms for animals vs. meat.
meat is porc, beef etc. french words for what it is when it is on the table of the french lord.
the animal in the barnyard is anglo saxon words, pig, cow, horse, etc, for while the anglo saxon doofus farmer/impoverished uneducated near-slave conquored person is taking care of it.
when winston churchill wanted to really grab ahold of his british audience he dispensed with all latinic or norman french words in his speech and used only anglo saxon words: ‘‘we will meet them on the beaches…’’
Destination matters. I mean, mostly those little things scream a lot. I suggest a padded box, probably leak proof would be better than a regular carton box.
Also, i don’t think they travel well if thrown around a lot. You might want to use FedEx second day air, or similar.
Don’t forget to fill out the customs statement if you are shipping overseas.
If we assume (for the moment only) that I am an expert rider, capable of riding my horse through and forward in all gaits, at what point do I start riding deep? Is it started at the low levels or is it only a higher level exercise? Once that is figured out, why do I do it? What does it accomplish? People are saying it’s good to do it but not why. So I do it for a few minutes at a time and I do it correctly, what have I done?
This appears to be the same type of situation as there is in the rein back. There is the opinion that the rein back is never to be over-trained, then some say that reinback can help develop muscles in the hindquarters and should be used accordingly. Two different points of view, but what are the mechanics involved?
A lot of us go on hearsay, we do it because it works for someone else, but how often do we actually know what we are doing? For the tried-and-true training, it’s probable safe to accept and use the principles that are taught, but for something new and relatively untried, shouldn’t we know more than just that the Olympic riders are using it?
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, I just want to know what it is supposed to accomplish, and why.
We need rilety out here again! Someone put out a call to the center and tell them to get her back online NOW!! 
Where???
But I am a disagreeable person. Purple is much prettier than orange.
Seriously, there are rights and wrongs in dressage. There are wrong leads (not deliberate counter-canters), there are shoulder ins that degenerate into leg yields, there are half passes with haunches leading. There are flying changes late behind, walks that pace, missed tempis, false passages, piaffes without sit, and a million other mistakes we all have made or will make. None of them will kill the horse, that is true. But they are not right, nor correct.
They are absolutes because they interfere with the horse’s balance. I am specifically addressing Alexa’s horse who is pulled behind the vertical when she is supposed to be on the bit. This is a mistake, an unfortunate moment, not a choice or a deliberate way of riding. If it is a deliberate method of riding, it is an incorrect method.
It does happen for the reasons Monica and I cited–the horse’s extravagant action. That still does not make it correct, nor an example of “Dressage Excellence.” If someone wants to ride that way and post it on their website as an example of “dressage excellence,” then they can expect some flak.
Glancing at all the horse’s on Alexa’s site, I too see a propensity for the horses to be behind the vertical. Some are pulled well behind the vertical, but are not in a deep shape (PC word of the day–outline is passe’, Suzy). This is indeed one of the pitfalls of deep; the riders can not ride the horses back up in front of the vertical when they need to. Look at the little mare named Viola on the for sale page below. Notice how low and short her sidereins are on the longe line.
http://www.dressageexcellence.com/shopping.html
I can’t go further than that. I would like to conclude that these horses are behind the vertical because they are routinely ridden deep and their riders can’t get them back up. But, I can not draw that conclusion from the pictures. I will conclude that the horses are behind the vertical when they are supposed to be on the bit and that is wrong.
[This message was edited by Kathy Johnson on Dec. 03, 2001 at 11:58 AM.]
I thought slc had succesfully killed this thread!
Maria, this may be a little off the topic (what topic???) but are you making this up?
“Fuquay-Varina, NC USA”
Time for me to go home and study the old Rand-McNally!
OK, Velvet, you say POTATOE and I say POTATO, You say TOMATOE and I say… LOL! Yes, you are correct, as always.
I know that Louise says we are only supposed to talk about issues and not people, but really, you guys are just SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO totally gross!!!
Velvet wrote:
Brookie, dahlin…
sigh Yet again, I must teach you a DQ lesson. No, we do not use French manicures, we use red nail polish. If we didn’t everyone would be able to see the blood under our nails after all of our gentle little “scratches” we give DQwannabes.
Really ladies! Even we Canadians KNOW that U.S.A. DQ’s don’t wear RED nail polish…they wear “U.S.E.T. Red” nail polish! Duh!
no, there is a reason she does it, but the position she puts junior in is different from the position she put the bonfire horse in. there’s a method to the madness egon.
i have no inside knowledge, except one friend i talk to occasionally who trains with her and sjeff for a few weeks a year. she seems to have some handle on how and when and why to do this - and unlike others actually seems to get some good out of it. i don’t think most people who try it really understand it or get any good out of it.
but it isn’t even necessary to talk to my friend as this has all been written up in dozens of magazines time and time again, ad nauseum ad finitum.
people do try to get bad photos of her, that was also covered pretty generously on various web sites and articles. one photographer was very clear about that in fact, can’t remember his name but he was very clear that was what he was trying to do.
i’m not schooling my horse that way, egon, so there’s no need to try and start a big debate with me. i’m not in favor OR against deep schooling. i’m just watching, learning and pondering.
i think there is highly emotional diatribe on BOTH SIDES, and that it will take some time for the method to be proven or disproven. i don’t really think there will ever be a totally clear decision or a totally clear view of the ruckus. everyone will just have to decide themselves if they want to do it or not.
for myself, i have made the decision to avoid trainers who EITHER are adamantly FOR OR AGAINST deep schooling. and frankly i don’t find that really knowledgeable trainers EVER TOTALLY discount one method or another. the key is knowing when a method is appropriate and why, and knowing when to say, ‘‘time for plan b’’.
you will hear classicist say to never made haunches in at canter, and you will hear classicists say never move the hind end to make straight, always move the shoulders.
but it depends on what is wrong.
if the horse simply has his shoulders to the outside, do not move the haunches out, move the shoulders in a classicist would say. but if he is extremely stiff through hips, positioning the haunches may be the only way to improve that.
besides, I prefer to refer to it as ‘footpaths’ rather than tracks - because how can a horse be on 3 tracks in his ‘two track work’.
Now I hope that actually discussing something about dressage offsets my earlier lapse in offering french swear words! I don’t want to upset Erin - heck just the Thought of “Brunhilda” makes me nervous! m
Things Take Time
It seems like there are so many people talking about ‘headshaking syndrome’ and that coupled with the current fad of training deep and excessive head wagging, it does seem to offer a possible corrilation. It is similar to the incredible increase in faulty hocks that are now seen in fairly young horses. People just don’t realize that the horse needs to work ALL THREE joints of the hind leg. IF you don’t get the stifle and hip participating in the flexion behind, the hock gets excessive wear, thus requiring injections, special shoes, etc, etc.
Nice try to change the topic Susan, but this is the thread that will not die, it simply metamorphosis into a new form over and over! 
Can’t wait to see what the new thread title will be.
Things Take Time
Obviously Anky’s been doing something right over the last several years. But then I am just a hunter and eq rider venturing over to the dressage forum…what do I know about dressage?
~~Erin B~~
Have you hugged your horse today?
I am new to dressage (from Hunter background) andI’ve been doing so much reading and watching etc. and I think the one thing that ‘bothers’ me about how Anky’s horses look, is that the neck is just a little too tight and the face is behind the verticle like ^] instead of ^. ^=horse’s ear.
From what I’ve learned, it seems the horse needs some freedom in the neck and head to be able to move forward freely. Is the fact that she is constricting the head and neck slightly what is ‘deep’? Please don’t be offended, I think she is a beautiful rider, but it does appear she doesn’t follow classical dressage in these photos? Anyone who can explain—please do!
But I will say that most of the time I still focus on the rider. It’s actually even more apparent when they find a feel or a position. The horse will typically give them a big reply and make them have an even bigger “A ha!” moment than with schooled horses. Of course, there are those horses so ingrained in bad habits with their riders that they keep trying to compensate. With them, I’ll usually hop on for a few minutes and show the horse what is expected and how nice it is when they get balanced and how soft the rider can be, then I get the rider back on, get them as far out of their rut as possible, and they have their epiphany when it all comes together.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dezertrose:
Maybe I’ll come back, but I probably won’t… Attack me all you want… Basically as I was once told by someone I consider to be a “hero” -
Quote: " When someone is losing the battle, they attack you personally because they cannot deal with the issue. "<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The irony there is too funny
Are you even old enough to understand it?!
Sole: The foundation in
ladies footwear.
Soul: Ladies footwear…
