[QUOTE]Originally posted by cortez:
So here is the other end of the scale. What do you all think of this picture?
http://www.if-wishes-were-horses.com/NunoExTrot.html
Wow.
For an example of a 6 beat walk, you’ll probably have to visit Kathy Johnson. Heck, if she can get horses to sing and dance, then a 6 beat walk should be a piece of cake! 
Please report back and be sure to include photos.
I stubbed my toe…
Nice to hear from you Jen but you do seem to be having a conversation with yourself. 
Well, I must say it’s been interesting reading the responses to the picture I posted. I’m not offended by anything anyone has said… I knew I’d get a can of whoop-ass opened on me, and I’m actually suprised at some of the nicer things that have been said.
I would like to say a few things however - not as an excuse, but as an explanation. First of all, I am doing a RISING TROT. Maybe I’m a bit of a moron, but I can’t get my arse out of the saddle without a little forward momentum… I’ve tried and come crashing down on the saddle when I sit again. I don’t ride Colossus (or any other horse) that deep/low when I’m doing a sitting trot. Neither of us are ready for that.
Also, I know he’s way behind the vertical. I guess I wasn’t clear before, but that’s not where I want him. I like his neck position, but not his nose. If his nose were more forward in this picture, I’d be thrilled. I don’t encourage this position.
Where are my elbows supposed to be? I thought it was all a straight line - ears, shoulders, elbows, hips, etc. (having said that, what the hell am I doing with my legs?!) I know I’m not perfect, but should I be straightening my arms? I’m asking seriously here.
I’m going to post some more pictures on the 4 yr old critique thread, so as to not clutter up this one. But please come share your opinions - maybe other riders out there can learn from my atrocities. 
I know people get frustrated by the crazy new-age deep vs. Old Dead experts discussion, but this has really been a very positive and constructive thread in my opinion. I’m hoping people are enjoying it.
If I put a magnetic browband on myself, will I ride better? Or will it make me “calm” when I have to go visit my mother? Hmmmmmmmm
Opps, this is supposed to be the “deep” thread…
Forgot…Where’s that browband… 
And the Relevant point is that I am the “Einstein of Dressage.” Eat your hearts out Velvet and RileyT. 
Just one more…
The :rolleyesthing was on purpose!!! so there.
Thanks for asking
sgd The Undead
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> …virtually EVERY World Cup horse I saw on OLN… <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
WAIT! I can’t get involved in the discussion because I’ve never seen any of the people we are discussing ride and haven’t watched any dressage in far too long–BUT when did OLN show dressage?!? I watch the Grands Prix when they are on Tuesday nights, but would LOVE to see dressage!Will there be more?
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jen West:
That’s all. Maybe she ISN’T pulling. Not worth arguing. She still needs to grow some guts and give her horse his head. It is not that the flexion itself is evil, it is that it is a sign that the impul;sion generated is not matching the contraint taken by the rider. If a horse is overbent he is conclusively being ridden front to back. Period.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Right, riding deep is not worth arguing, but it is always worth debating and discussing. Let me just say this, and I do mean this in the nicest spirit: Until we ride at Anky’s level, and until we have ridden and worked with the horses she rides, we really have no place to be so critical.
Riding deep means different things to many different people. Some horses fare better than others. I always try to do what is best for the horse and if riding him deep is what is called for, then thats what I do, but believe me, just because a horse is ridden deep or appears to be over flexed (behind the vertical), that does not always mean horse is being ridden incorrectly.
Riding deep is not something one does ALL the time, it’s like a tool used to help and encourage horse to use his hind end more efficiently as well as develop a correct top line. Done correctly and with tact, the tool doesn’t have to be used all the time, just now and then…
Riding deep is not for everyone or every horse.
I just had to do it!! I just had to add to the title.
If I could get my horses to look like Anky does-I’d gladly get bashed on any BB out there.
(quick,while she’s distacted, I’ll hit her on the head. Dr HF-grab her arms-Egon-grab her legs-DebS-prop up the middle and run!)
when are we going to talk about “sexism” as advertised in the title. My dog groomer is concerned that this brief thread is going off course again 
I’ll go and get suzy’s walker and you, Maria, can get James from my car and have him pick suzy up off the floor. We’ll also let him pour her into the car and give her a ride home.
See, I do have a heart. I can take pity on decrepit lushes.
(Just a little something to help you through your day, suzy dahling. )
It’s all about ME, ME, ME!!! (The only signature worthy of a real DQ.)
ahh yessss
Higher Education.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The best thing about Anky though was that she speaks so well to the crowd. The people that generally go to Spruce Meadows are a mixture of families wanting to see pretty horses jump, to those who are fairly educated in the sport of show jumping, to riders in the area that one day aspire to be in that big ring. Anky wowed all of these people with her humour and charisma. If nothing else I think it is great for dressage to gain public recognitian, maybe next time we approach a prospective sponsor they will have heard of the sport called dressage. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
One thing that seems to have been forgotten in this whole discussion is what an amazing job Anky has done as an ambassador for dressage.
The dressage scene around here stinks. And I mean badly! I have a lot of issues with it, and unfortunately I compare the dressage scene to the jumper scene… and not much can compare to Spruce Meadows and the intensity of the hunter/jumper community in the surrounding area.
But take a minute to look past Anky and her correct or incorrect riding for a second… look at the background in some of PaulaM’s pictures (thanks for posting them by the way!). There’s thousands of people with their eyes glued on a horse and rider in that ring. They listened very carefully to what she said. They learned about pirouettes and passage and extended trots. They thought it was beautiful! And in 10 minutes Anky & Junior did more for dressage than any of us could have done in 10 years. That has to be respected.
And Joe Schmoe who brought the family to Spruce for the day doesn’t give a crap if Junior’s nose is in the air or at his knees. But he might now know a little bit of what Dressage is about.
I found this on another board (sorry COTH) and it may help some people to understand “deep” better. I really like the way she explains the workings of the underside in conjunction with the topline of the horse. She also states the same type of work what John Lyons advocates - lowering a horses head and neck to relax them. Like I said before…the world used to be flat…
In the KWPN Magazine �In de Strengen� of 27th september I saw a very interesting interview with Physiotherapist Solange Schrijer. She explains why she thinks deep work benefits the horse. Some highlights:
(exuse me for my english, I’m certainly not an english translater If you don’t understand things, please ask.)
…Fysical and Mental condition of the horse is of great importance for the ability to perform. … The fysical consequences of stress can be explained by looking at the nervesystem. Simply explained, the nervesystem has a �arbitrary� and an �involuntary� part. The involuntary part arranges certain bodyfunctions like temperature, muscle tension in rest, metabolism etc. A horse trained under stress is experiencing a constant increase of the activity of the involuntary nervesystem. He is constantly in a Fight or Flight stage.
…By riding a horse low and round, you invite him among other things trough his nervesystem to relax more in his body. This is the opposite posture of the flightposture of the horse, which is overstretching. By riding a horse round and deep, you bring the head and neck down and you stretch his topline; the neck- and backmuscles and the loins. By riding like this you can make a contribution to the fysical and mental well being of the horse.
…In the end you are searching for a balance between the contraction of the bottom-line (bellymuscles) and topline (backmuscles). A horse has to shorten its bellymuscles to use its back properly.
…Riding deep askes for an adjustment in �thinking� of the belly- to the back-muscles. The contraction of the backmuscles overstretches the back which causes hollowness and a hindleg that stays behind. Contraction of the bottomline muscles (the belly and hip-muscles) make that we get everything we want out of good training, a swinging loose back in dressage and a nice bascule when jumping. The engagement of the hindleg is directly related to the contraction of the bottomline. The use of the bottomline-muscles is because of that very important.
I thought this was pretty interesting and more food for thought…
Bye Yvonne
