MS Kathy-you are too kind. Quite frankly, I sometimes suspect that the half halt has evolved just to make me crazy.
Yeeeeee haaaaa, got it to 21.
because haunches in is a two track movement, semantically.
Hubert Rohrer asked the same question about haunches in, and what was the optimium angle, at a clinic before he died. No one there knew the answer either, and I believe his non-answer was that it was most important that the angle stayed the same.
More fuel for the fire:
PS Which ODG had the leading role in Shrek?
(for this thread, at least)
What does herself, the Ankster, wear???
Maybe we’ve been misinterpreting “riding deep” all this time…
KAM, CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP!!!
I know Janine. She’s spot on!!! I wish I knew what she has forgotten.
We all have so much to learn. Some of these people that are being condemed, heck, they are flying over here or we’re flying over there and they are WILLINGLY passing their knowledge on to us. And what are some of you guys doing, you’re beating them up.
My horse doesn’t have much of a bellybutton but he does have a little scurfy spot 
Well, I guess I can accept your apology, Brookes, but a little more bowing and scraping wouldn’t hurt.
Good Good Good Good Good
LMO
Could the horse everyone says is wide behind be due to his private parts?
where am I?
creates a faux mustache 
If one goes back and looks at the make-up of European dressage teams…there is a distinct shift from all-male teams to all-female teams or nearly all-female teams.
if one goes back and looks at the horses that made up the dressage teams, there is a distinct shift from big, heavier horses to lighter, more TB-influenced horses.
This is true for show jumping as well.
The sport of dressage used to be a world where cavalry-trained and influenced riders-who-had-become-trainers showed what they could do with a horse. That horse was not bred specifically for dressage. It was a horse of some talent–or it was the horse that was available.
These days, we have horses that are bred out the wazoo for specific purpose.
The riders at the top are professional riders.
The most successful have a superb eye on the ground as part of the integral team that produces such success.
There was a time when the top trainers rode the horses and then ‘produced’ the rider and horse at competitions. If you want names, email me privately: Im not going to produce tempests in teapots here.
But it is not so long ago that Rehbein once finished the changes on a horse, admonished the rider to NOT practice them, but just go in and ride the test.
We have moved on; the top riders actually ride and train the horses, developing that special timing partnership that is required for performance these days.
In no way was I making a sexist remark.
It is a reality that most riders these days are women. It is a reality that most trainers are men.
(I am talking about the top of the tree here.)
It is a reality that the horses have changed.
It is a reality that asking a horse to lower his neck and follow the rein connection has been around for so long as people have ridden and thought about it. It is a reality that for the connection to be true, the horse must ALSO work in proper balance and rhythm wherever one has asked the front end to stay.
It is a reality that the ideas as to what composes athleticism in performance have altered somewhat.
I agree that no one should really try to do what Anky does. In various interviews, Sjef Janssen has said over and over , he does not enjoy teaching–because a talent like Anky’s is so rare; because the timing to feel and know what to do with his ideas --to sense what to do on one’s own-- take too long to develop and most riders cannot develop them.
There is a view at the top, that some tension is all right in the development of the horse. That this tension will dissipate as the horse becomes stronger in mind and body.
I have no answer to this.
I am small. I find tension difficult to ride through. I find it difficult to get the horse to truly use its back and stop leg-moving.
I have seen Anky and Sjef work. There is no doubt in my mind that extreme deep, rollkur, what ever you want to call it, is a control move.
If the formula is 90% seat, 8% leg, 2% hand…and Anky or whomever is using her seat max effort–and geting no repsonse…then the playing field must be levelled.
She is not pulling those horses’ heads…they go where she asks them to go. That is why and how they come up again.HOW she trains them to accept this–aha…that is timing and talent and knowledge and experience. And frankly–horses will do justy about anything a human being asks them to do, if it is explained to the horse logically. Certainly, I think it is much harder to get a horse to jump off a high diving board then stick its head between its knees.
I do not pretend to understand deep very well, and I do not use it as part of a day’s schooling. Except on one horse (out of 9 or 10) and I have misgivings every day that I seem to need to do it on him. I accept that there is a problem somewhere I am not addressing. But after he is deep for a bit, his gaits are sparkly and he is through.
The reality is…when my favorite clinicans (neither is a fan of deep)come, they usually make me work him LONGER in flat, forward leg-yield, sh-in, etc etc…and this produces the same result: he gets to using his back.
It takes longer their way and I am a sloth sometimes when it comes to self-discipline(<G>…
When Anky says she is ‘flying’ on one of her GP horses…I am sure she is. Those are strong,responsive athletes that she and Sjef pick out and like. During a performance, those ponies seem to understand and accept, that so many ‘tape-loops’ of deep have been repeated, that the suggestion of deep (watch Anky’s left hand on Bonfire) is enough for them to stay focused and responsive…Others also use deep–in fact, I venture to say that nearly everyone uses deep some of the time. It is a TOOL, not a be-all and end-all.It is just–as I have said–it is a tool that has suddenly become a ‘technique’.
No one seems to attach nearly as much significance to Anky’s seat or Isabell’s seat or their phenomenal timing.
That is because anyone can ‘see’ and therefore understand the horse’s head going down…but it is difficult to see and therefore understand the rest of the technique being used.
You can train a horse to piaffe when he hears you hum Yankee Doodle Dandy but it is not very useful in the show ring–you will lose 2 points at the least.
The above is a quote. here is the other part of the quote:
If you dont like what Sjef and Anky do, then train classically and get out there and beat them.
Those are not my words and not my challenge. It was said to me in a round robin discussion ,years ago, about the non-classic elements that were seeping in to international competition.
Dr. Klimke sneered and called it ‘pattern riding’ and felt that dressage was getting to the point where riders felt (correctly) that they could not afford to make a mistake. Deep does help limit mistakes: the horse becomes more obedient.
When Dr. Klimke died, he was involved in trying to rectify this.
That discussion is still ongoing.
cheers,
being a DQIT (DQ in training) I must confess I have not yet been able to afford the surgery to keep me from delicatly moving with the horse’s movement. I did however find that an overgirth attached across my lap has a similar effect ( I knew all that darn eventing gear would come in handy ).
Just letting you all into my little secret. I know we can’t all be as well “sculpted” as some on this board (cough velvet cough)
there’s a thread on the Booger Board about her right now.
As much as I don’t like the highest point third vertebrae and behind the verticalappearance on the picture, if you can ignore that, it looks like a happy, forward going, attentive and brilliant horse she is riding. It is hard for me to argue with a method that produces such spectacular movement, even though I cannot yet ride like that even with a good coach who understands “deep”.
I really have nothing bad to say about the picture- she is after all, scoring in the high 70’s under european judges!
experts my eye. we’re just yakking here. i think it’s good for people to see just how many different views there are of a thing, and to realize the ancient mantra of the east that will always soothe and enlighten you, which is just what someone said = opinions - everyone’s got one.
Anky was at a clinic and the horse being taught was shying all over the place. At one point it did what horses often do, it stopped, trembling and started staring transfixed up into the seating, impossible to urge on or turn in any way.
Anky said something like, ‘‘I think he knows someone in the crowd’’.
I think if she can extend some grace and understanding to a rider and horse who are tense and having problems in public, that we could do the same for her. Everyone has less perfect moments, Monica, even you. The more you compete and ride, the more you find out that everyone is imperfect and capable of making mistakes.
I just don’t think everyone gets that upset when they see a horse with his head down in a halt. And I’m quite sure Anky had nothing to do with the photo choice. Most people never do have much to say about ‘‘their’’ catalogues or promotional items. This criticism may be because you dislike the ‘‘deep’’ schooling method, in this case i’d suggest sticking to discussions of that.
As to the scandal of a photo of Anky with the horse’s head down, well…there’s nothing like a little personal experience being torn apart by the Critic Vultures to give you a little compassion for others.
I often wish Anky could log in to this forum and respond. It certainly has been quite educational to have other prominent riders get on and respond to posts about themselves on other forums. Meanwhile, let’s try to keep it a little more impersonal and ride a little lighter on Anky’s reins.
The pictures of her horse in that deep outline were taken in the warm-up arena, not during competition. She warms-up very deep, but right before her test, she rides her horse into an uphill outline and the competition photos show that.
First, how the heck can someone weighing in at, what, 60 lbs soaking wet “ride deep”??? 
Personally, and I know I’m a hunter/eq person, I much preferred to watch Isabelle and Gigolo to Anky and Bonfire. Perhaps I just saw them at the end of his career, but they didn’t give me the goosebumps I got from watching Isabelle and Gigolo. Bonfire looked choppy, (dare I say I agree with Jen here - looked like a few too many beats to me too at times), as well as uneven at times. Maybe it was at least in part because of his way of going, i.e., he is NOT the mover that Gigolo is. I’m sure he never was.
That said, I do think Anky looks beautiful on a horse and I’m sure she’s a great dressage rider. I also think that having her at Spruce Meadows was a wonderful idea. And I have to disagree with whoever posted that The Schmoe family would come away noticing that perhaps the head/neck/croup/hocks were not “just so” and that they should not be told it’s correct.
Oh, and HOW could anyone refer to Suzy as tenacious??? 
You evil witch. I’ll get you for this… and your little dog, too!!!
Hey, hey, wait a minute. Did you use Photoshop to remove my 5 carat diamond studs!!!??? And you put a sweater and scarf on to cover up my $2M Harry Winston diamond necklace!!! Also, it was downright cruel of you to “age” me like that. In real life, I look at least 20 years younger than that photo.
