The Anky thread that has nothing to do with anything but has a whole lot to say about alot

[canyonoak]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kathy Johnson:
"C’mon folks, forget deep, I am trying to wage a war on sexism here. Where is Harry Boldt (owner or the original sexist remark?) I’ll take him on.

Where all the feminists? The ex-hippies, flower children? Girls with guys names like Toni and Bobbi?

Why do you think men have dominated as coaches? Do we really think they’re better than women?!?!"

Hey,I’ve taken on deep–now for sexism!

well…the world of dressage used to be dominated by cavalry-trained and influenced riders: eg–men.

and when these men grew up and wanted to impart their knowledge…for the most part, they turned to those with whome they were comfy: eg–men.

So part of it has to do with who got the Secret Knowledge of the Priesthood.

And part of it has to do with the physical–the muscle tone required to sit properly.
One can argue with Mary Wanless, but there is little doubt (heck, none) in my mind that she has provided THE vocabulary for the biomechanics of seat position. That is–whether riders think they sit a certain way or not, say they do or not–all the good riders DO sit a certain way and use certain muscles,connections, etc.

And it is easier for males to acquire the isometrics required for a truly independent seat and put it all on ‘auto-pilot’ and produce the seat of velcro,etc etc…so that they can actually get to the rest of the necessary stuff.

So even though at the top of the competitive pyramid the names are for the most part those of women–the eyes on the ground will still, for the most part, be male.

Will this change, is it changing? The chance to ride a lot of hoirses, to gain a LOT of experience/knowledge, is finally being given to women…
Ingrid Klimke appears to be following in those giant footprints–a Three Day Champion, now also showing very successful GP dressage AND Young Horse Championship dressage… Ulla Salzgeber was the Young Rider Team coach for Germany, until she decided it was too much time away from her own training schedule. And Holger Schmezer, the current German Senior Team Coach, was the Young Rider Team coach…

Kyra Kyrklund has been acknowledged a prodigy since she was a teenager, and certainly can teach–so it will be interesting to see what she decides to do after she stops competing seriously.

I think there are hardly any riders in the world who would not work with these trainers based on their sex.

cheers,
Lita

[Louise]

You have made your points, now move on. Get back to the issues.

[Maria]

Just gotta make it to 20 pages.

[Velvet]

Emoticon lesson #1: Always place spaces before and after to make sure the thing actually shows up!!!

Wow, just the thought of Maria and I doing a happy dance must have shaken you up. Must be because you are still on the floor after your last Martini. Hmmm…the bar isn’t that high and you do have a LOT of padding, so I don’t see what you’re worried about. Maria and I will be well protected from the floor after we fall off the bar and on you.

It’s all about ME, ME, ME!!! (The only signature worthy of a real DQ.)

[neighsayer]

you alright?

[suzy]

>>>I am very very very sorry that so many people seem to think that quality and trophies are synonymous,

Nope, that’s not what we think. It’s just that we see something different than you. There is no such thing as perfection in dressage – the scores prove it: a 10 = excellent, not perfect. So, yes, we are able to forgive something that isn’t perfect. Anky is so fluid and as one with her horse that I can “forgive” her for her occasional mistake. I’m just another who would like to ride like that.

[Cosmo]

and I am no Anky, but I’ll ride him!! lol

Jen as for spooking being a non issue, unless I am mistaken it takes a certain amount of pizazz and attitude to make a GP horse or as you said it a’prix’ anything horse. With pizazz and attitude comes a look at me, and in return there is OMG what the heck am I looking at!!

I don’t think that anyone riding that level wants a totally quiet horse (not saying that being really focused doesn’t lead to a ‘quiet’ horse, or that quiet is bad). I haven’t seen that the classical methods, will make your horse any less spooky or whatever, just miles and miles and miles will do that. And even then no horse is totally spookless… JMVHO…

I cannot comment on the jumper thing, I have been out of that for quiet a while, through no fault of my own though! lol

As for the it being the exact same arguements as the AQHA horse people, well I can’t really see that. There are many and yes I will say it again MANY AQHA western pleasure people out there that donot and will not tolerate that type of style. If you read at all about that and what the judges and what the trainers really think, then you will understand that it is not very well welcomed, although some of the bigger judges have gotten lost in the whole thing. So I cannot see the correlation at all…

That being said, and I am sure you will disagree, ‘deep’ is not really a fad, it is an overexageration of some of the older style exercises. I don’t believe for a minute that this was just thought up in the last 25 years.

Anyways, I think like every exercise it can be helpful. Just to varying degrees and moving from FDO and l&l and deep. All together it works, and again as long as the end is not compromised (which we all know takes a he!! of a long time to get there) then using whatever (whether it be deep or leg yeild yikes) to help you along the way to get over a stumbling block surely shouldn’t be crucified, as long as it doesn’t take away the horse’s opinion and voice!! And as far as I have see deep used, it hasn’t taken away their voice. I donot see ropes tieing them down there, but skillfull riders working their horses round and down.

JMVVVHO!!

Keep up the good work guys, by discussing we all learn.

Cosmo

“Acceptance of the bit happens in the haunches, not in the mouth.”
Dr. Thomas Ritter

www.geocities.com/bluejaystables

[Kathy_Johnson]

What I DO think is that women have had to develop the muscle between their ears because they recognize–and accept–that they are not going to physically overwhelm nearly any horse.

>This is the point. Women physically aren’t going to overwhelm the horse riding deep either. If Boldt’s original statement were true, then men would never ride deep, because they wouldn’t have to.

The best “horsemen” ALL know that,men or women.

>I think to be politically correct here, we should address them as “people of horses.”

But a lot of so-called trainers are just people with long legs who can stay on a horse long enough that the horse gets tired of fighting…

>We are in total agreement here, although I think we are addressing the dressage hack rather than any rider of Anky’s caliber.

It is certainly easy to spout off examples of world class male trainers riding hot horses successfully, but I have often wondered how much better those horses, such as Biotop, might have gone under lighter women riders. When exactly did the Spanish Riding School even admit women?

Kathy Johnson Dressage

[DebS]

Night of the living DQ
The Booger Body-Snatchers
Village of the Damned DQs

"It’s aliiiiiiiiiiive

boogers don’t flop…they bounce…and occasionaly stick to the wall…but NEVER flop

[slc2]

oh there are plenty of good shots of nuno. i used to have one that would curl your hair, though, LOL. whooo-eee, from when he was young - the horse’s mouth wide open, back dropped a mile, it was not pretty. it was in a horse magazine and presented to complement nuno’s ability…i was like…eeeh chihuaha, get a better photo.

just goes to show you, a picture is not always representative. it’s just one moment. but…you mean if you look at the horse’s back end, you can’t see it egon? i believe you, i’m just…surprised. different strokes for different folks i guess. maybe everyone looking at a photo sees different things.

punam means face in yiddish.

look at that punam is what dr. evil said when his son scott accused mini-me of being a psychotic killer. then mini-me looked appealing and innocent.

i only said i don’t read trash books. watching trash movies is FINE.

yup a cat. but i lied. the woman just wacked me with her printed show program and said 'atsa notta good trot.

the cat. now the cat was in the parking lot at mary yoder’s family restaurant AFTER the show (when we drove away, hilda gurney was out there in the dust and 100 degree temperatures schooling a kid - the woman is amazing…anyhow).

when we went in, we saw the cat. it did not look like it was long for this world.

so i can say we were one of the few dinner parties that almost got kicked out of yoder’s for loudly inquiring about their blue plate special - was it true it would be ‘‘MEOW-LICIOUS?’’

[Monica_S]

I once green broke a Standardbred pacer who was a native trotter, but they had put pacing shackles on him because pacing is faster. Anyhow, the poor darling really didn’t know WHAT to do with his gangly legs - took him a month to learn how to Trot again. Well, when we started trying to canter, he could just TTRRROOOOOTTTTT and then he would start a pseudoPace. So, with much encouragment using a tap of the whip on his hind end, I DID teach him to canter - but… he would often slip back into trotting in back which did indeed create a 5 beat canter. He could go left-right-left in back in the time the front end went left-right-pause. As odd as it was to look at it was incredibly Smooth, but impossible to collect. I guarantee it was 5 beats, without any use of a 5th leg. It was just in the time it took to cycle a full stride in front, he would slip in a extra step behind.

(LOOK Louise - I got this Back into a discussion on horses! See, you can’t dump this thread yet! Hahahaha!)

And SLC - you are talking about imaginary books - you need to get a hold of a book by Rumi with all his off color stuff - written back in 800 AD! Wonderful moral stories - like the one about the princess’s hand maiden who had a ‘cooperative’ little Jack burro. She had arrainged some contraption with cocoanut shells to prevent too much AHem “DEEP”. Well, the princess was jealous, and sent the hand maiden off on a fool’s mission, just so she could have some personal time with old Jack. Of course she didn’t know about the coconut shells, and well, we all know that Deep Work Can KILL you!!! (I swear this is really the story, and it was originally written in Arabic, and it actually is a Sufi story!) So, who needs make believe when there are classic works like this floating around! m

Things Take Time

[Roberta]

I am pretty certain that I was going high back in college - without a horse and didn’t know anything about dressage. Way before Anky Spanky and the Gang.

[Brookes]

Jen West, perhaps what you saw was Anky having a difficult time with a difficult horse. That’s all there could be to it. Perhaps this horse’s training needs some polishing. If he was doing a six beat movement, yes that is incorrect.

However . . . .Anky is a goddess in the saddle. She (from what I have heard in reviews) is also a very classical teacher. Classical as in ODG’s! I ride with an almost ODG (he’s pretty old) and I asked him about this. He laughed and said “they are horses aren’t they?”, I believe this to mean that they make mistakes and we can’t always fix it right then and there, especially during a demonstration.

Please don’t get upset with everyone, we believe in our heroes and will stand up for them. Perhaps Anky herself had a bad day, been known to happen, just ask Isabelle Werth each time she beat her! What a great battle that was, watching those two go head to head, loved it!

Oh and Jen your remark about running around cans, cracked me up! LOL! I wouldn’t ride a barrel racer for love nor money, those ponies go way too fast for me, thank you very much!

Hang in there Jen, our barks are worse than our bites, except for a couple of us anyway, kidding.

Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!

[Ninja]

LOL Suzy! good one! J West are you telling all of us that Rembrant wasn’t well trained?? because he had one heck of a spook!

[Velvet]

don’t flop. And DQs would NEVER be caught flopping (we use artistic plastic surgery to avoid that nastiness).

Methinks JW has seen too many wannabes riding around.

[suzy]

Quick, turn it off before anyone else sees Maria and Velvet in their birthday suits!!! Darn you, Eggy, you said the rating was DQ!!!

[egontoast]

But this is a very informative thread. Did you know , for instance, that Nuno was in the Spy Who Shagged Me? Dressage is everywhere!

[slc2]

actually it’s 4. the hind end can’t be deflected that much or there is no bend and it is lek yieldink already or if you prefer shoulder out or some other fabricated name - maybe the old head to the wall is the best thing to call it.

[HeyYouNags]

What are you doing over here on the Dressage board? Shouldn’t you be hanging around on Off Course, trying to pick up your Friday night Mosby’s date?

Sorry, can’t make Mosby’s, I’ve got a 6’7" blond coming over… Dang, it will be too dark when he gets there to make him nail up some fence boards. Maybe I should just pack him off to M-burg to meet you.

[Sannois]

asking? Who do you admire as a Dressage rider? And what are your credentials as a Dressage rider? Not trying to be sarcastic, but just wondered. I am hard pressed to find any fault with Anky, or Isabelle or many of the big names, There is a German Rider Monica Theroaudescou, ack, killed the spelling that was really hard to watch ride in a Volvo world cup tape I have from 92. He legs and body were all over, and her horse was looking like he was sick of the whole thing. But that was just my opinion, She won one of the competitions. Oh and By the way Good point KAM

[This message was edited by Sannois on Sep. 22, 2001 at 07:39 PM.]