And having nasal passages and nostrils widened to accommodate whatever I may be ingesting at the moment I read one of Maria’s or Velvet’s posts. It’s just too painful otherwise. LOL.
On a totally different topic, when is our favorite reprobate rileyt due back?
Velvet I believe your age is showing. 
Nothing sadder than a DQ who still thinks she’s stylish but is wearing the style from 20 years ago. 
I mean really darling!
this may not be the longest lived,or have the most posts, but it sure has covered a diverse set of topics - and ranged from serious to amusing, and it even took on a life of its own apart from the contributions of a troll!
Now about the picture of Alexia, this is a horse being ‘held together’. This is a common phenomenon in modern dressage, because it is VERY difficult to get a horse to manage this degree of extravagance without support from the rider. Now the question is - do you want to have to hold your horse up with the reins. If that doesn’t bother you, and your horse can tolerate it, then you can go ‘over the edge’ with what you ask in extensions, etc. If you choose as a rider NOT to start being a 5th wheel for your horse, then it will take a bloody long time to develop this amount of extravagance that is actually in Self Carriage, in fact I am not 100% convinced it could really be done.
The ‘behind the vertical’ appearance is the result of a slight on the forhand carriage. This is NOT behind the bit, because this horse has hardly dropped the contact, instead he is depending on it to stay on his feet!
I will not get into ‘right or wrong’ because how each of us rides our horses is a personal choice. There is no mistreatment of the horse is becoming a ‘forhand enabler’ and supporting the front end in extensions. The horse sure doesn’t care, heck there are tons of lower level dressage horses who are absolutely Counting on their riders hands to hold them up! So, just as deciding whether to ride Western Pleasure, run barrels or ride dressage is a personal choice, so is the choice as to whether you think dressage requires complete self carriage in the horse, and therefore the nose should reach slightly in front of the vertical, or is a riding partnership that includes some support from the rider’s hands which allows the horse to move in a flashy manner that is slightly out of balance, but really cool to watch your goal. And THAT is why people can’t agree on deep, not deep, etc, etc. Because it is all a matter of taste, and why would we want to argue whether Purple is prettier than Orange, and vise versa??? m
Things Take Time
Doing what I do best. 
I’m getting concerned. Very concerned.
5 cms and crowning. Somethings wrong here.
Maria who has birthed a baby.
yummmmmmmm
Pull up a chair and join me.
I loved my western years! Barrel racing, WP, trail classes…
Waiting for the dust storms to blow over so that we could see the barrels well enough to run them!
I don’t live in CA, but in AZ.
In the summertime, we had our shows at night, and in the late summer, the Monsoon would always bring a dust storm or thunderstorm. It was a very fun time for me. I learned a lot about riding, and horses in those days…
just check out ‘trying the young prospect on saddletude’…chuckle chuckle…it’s just silly to say she doesn’t ride the juniors behind the vertical…they don’t claim not to do this and it is apparently part of the deep training they espouse if you read their articles on it…it’s not a question of photographers catching a zillion ‘bad moments’. i suspect she doesn’t view them as bad moments.
Do you think that the trend toward the straighter flapped saddles put riders in a position that predisposes riding a horse behind the bit (a la hanging on for support)?
Or we could have a food fight… DQ flings a strawberry tart at Velvet
Sole: The foundation in
ladies footwear.
Soul: Ladies footwear…
-fascinating report. I would suggest, from a theoretical and medical viewpoint, that certain horses, like certain athletes and artists, can develop repetitive strain injury, if not worked in a form that is correct for their conformation. In human injury of this type, promoting proper posture and making ergonomic changes to the environment, as well as physio and gradual strengthening of the injured part, often creates recovery. It only follows that the same could occur in other species. But from what I understand of the use of deep posture in horses, that this must be developed and gradually strengthened. ONe would think such carefully done gradual strengthening would be good. My question would be, are athletic injuries of all sorts more common in horses worked deep than in those not worked so? It is a study which is difficult to perform.
Three of us went to see Anky and Junior perform, never was the contact harsh, at the trot and canter, there was quite a bit of give in the reins. Anky was definately not hanging onto the horse’s mouth
Hey Muley, it’s ok.
It’s the positive and negative responses that help us all learn. ANY opinion is valuable as long as it is not mean spirited and none have been so far.
I know Coppelia is very interested in what everyone has to say and she does not get discouraged or disgruntled in the least. She would not open herself up to such a discussion if she was not ready for the good…and the bad.
I do understand your point, Velvet! What do you do about the folks who are riding unschooled/poorly schooled horses as far as working on fix position first vs. fix horse first vs. perhaps try to fix them at the same time, etc.? I surely don’t pretend to have an answer, looking for more experienced folks to help with their wisdom!
Also, Suzy you crack me up! The Learning Channel has replaced “A Dating Story” in the morning with “A Personal Story” which is based on people who are getting plastic/cosmetic surgeries either to correct abnormalities or enhance their looks. Would love to see “A DQ Story” on sculpting the perfect DQ body (booty??)
his contact on the snaffle bit is maybe not even, and it is only noticeable when he hits the curb.
go back and correct that so he is even behind, get both hind legs to come thru better.
also think he could be getting behind the bit and you just need to push him to the bit more with your legs. i’ve seen that happen a lot when the double bridle goes on. but be wise and ponder if maybe he just lacks the strength and steadiness of contact still to go onto the double bridle (by this i mean a horse needs to be strong to go on the bit in the double bridle, it takes more strength in him and the rider for sure), it is not such an easy thing for the horse.
he can also be crooked and made more crooked in the double bridle.
the double bridle always magnifies any problems in the training, so it can be there is something you need to go back and fix, such as making the hind legs carry the same amount and making the suppleness in the poll and jaw, and making the shoulders not go to the outside, in other words making the horse more straight and ‘‘standing up on his legs’’ with the same amount of weight on each leg. think about using position fore if you need to make straight and watch the outside aids when making any circular track, bring the shoulder around with the outside aids.
in general i’d suggest you do like most of us here do and ride with the curb reins tied up on his neck for about 6 months, too only school 1-2 x a week in the double (so that six months isn’t really that many rides in the double bridle). after some months you take up the curb reins but leave them loose without any pressure. only later you take up the rein, and then use it very sparingly, and on the other rides confirm very much the forward and a good contact and fix any issues the double bridle brought up.
also check the fit of the bits. the mouth piece of the curb may be too thick for his mouth; at least that’s common in my area.
a lot of people start putting on the double bridle earlier than you, but don’t pick up the curb rein for ages, that way the horse can get used to the bridle and bit with plenty of time and no difficulty. but you don’t have to show at 4th level in the double bridle so you have time now too anyway.
alot of horses will have it on for a long time with the curb reins tied up so that they get comfortable with it easily over a long period of time.
So here is the other end of the scale. What do you all think of this picture?
the horse is on two tracks, one for the front, one for the back.
movements in which the forelegs are on a different line than the hind legs are called two track work in old books. some old books call two track work any work where the horse crosses his legs and goes sideways.
his feet however make three lines of foot prints in the dirt in shoulders in.
the shoulder comes in so outside fore and inside hind make only one track. that makes 3 lines of hoof prints on the ground.
outside hind, the pair of outside fore and inside hind, and inside fore.
in position or shoulder fore the angle is not so much, there are four lines of hoof prints, but prints from outside fore are farther toward middle of ring than prints of outside hind.
what i’ll never get is jenn saying horses make 6 beats.
if they had two more legs, i could see it. when my horse drops he can do 5 beat work. but 6?
http://www.dictionary.com/wordoftheday/
http://www.wordsmith.org/words/today.html
http://www.edu.yorku.ca/wotd/past.html
when this book, Noel Jackson’s Effective Horsemanship was published stated, with regard to the passage, that “The neck should be RAISED and gracefully arched with the poll as the highest point, and the head close to perpendicular.”
If NObody is doing it “right” then the judges are forced to choose from among those who do it wrong the best.
Suzy: Yeah, you’d think I was out killing babies or something to read the abrupt responses. Thanks, too, Judy,for your support.
Oh, who said that about the world being flat? That’s PRECIOUS, to be sure!!
Anywho… if dressage is not our religion, what kinda DQ’s are we anyway? I say: OPEN MINDED!!!
Oh, dear, there’s fodder for another thread.
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