The Colt That Defied the Common Rules for Grey - Update 2 Years Later

[Daventry]

We’ve bred lots of palominos over the years, many of them have turned grey. I’ve always known that if the foal was born their “adult color”, they would eventually turn grey. Foals born a light, washed out foal color will not turn grey and end up shedding out their foal coat to their bright adult color.

When this Welsh Pony colt was born last year, we knew he would stay palomino. He was born such a light, washed out color. Definitely not the typical adult color that would warrant the coat turning grey. He had not one single grey hair around his eyes or anywhere else.

Fast forward to this spring. I noticed a few white hairs throughout his coat. Figured it is either the result of his sabino markings…or he might be a palomino roan. Unfortunately, no test is available for roan. Because we are selling this colt this spring, I figured I better get a grey test done to rule it out just in case. I would hate to sell him to someone who dreamed of having a palomino pony hunter and then he ended up greying out. I was 99% sure the test would come back as non-grey, as he was not born looking like a grey colt.

I have no idea how the test came back as Gg, but it did! Will be sad to see such a gorgeous coat color disappear. Your thoughts JB? Wondering if there is a chance the test results are somehow wrong.

[Daventry]

For comparison, this is his full sister who was also born palomino and turned grey. You can see her foal coat color is totally different and is the dark adult coat color that is commonly associated with grey foals.

[JB]

Looking back I would say the darkness around the fetlocks was the tell-tale sign of the gray darkening. I would guess if he had not been gray he would have been a near white, Isabella palomino, and that’s just so hard to darken.

Very interesting.

BTW - you can test for Roan

[invinoveritas]

He is so cute whatever color he is or becomes.

[Daventry]

[QUOTE=JB;8731236]

BTW - you can test for Roan :)[/QUOTE]

This is what I was told by UC Davis.

“Roan is inherited as a dominant gene but the specific mutation has not yet been identified, so there is no direct test for the gene. VGL has identified DNA markers in Quarter Horses and Paints associated with Roan that can be used to determine if a horse has the roan gene and how many copies.”

[Daventry]

@JB;8731236

Looking back I would say the darkness around the fetlocks was the tell-tale sign of the gray darkening.

That was mud. We had just finished having a lot of rain and his paddock area was muddy.

[Where_sMyWhite]

I thought mud was a standard horse color, no???

[exvet]

I think this colt is absolutely lovely and in all honesty the last thing I even noticed is color. Wish he were going to be larger

I’ve raised one Isabella colored welsh cob cross…and talk about a challenge to keep looking clean though he was a stunner in all other respects…still I would choose grey over isabella any and every day of the week if all other parameters were equal.

[Daventry]

@exvet;8731350

I think this colt is absolutely lovely and in all honesty the last thing I even noticed is color. Wish he were going to be larger

Thanks so much! He should have been left as a stallion prospect, but we are starting to wind down our Section B breeding program and I didn’t want to stand another boy…and felt he would have a happier life as a hunter pony rather than a breeding stallion, so he recently had an alteration. Now I’m fighting with my husband, as he still wants to keep him. I want to sell him as a pony hunter prospect. He will be a nice sized medium. Genetics won’t let him be a large no matter how much I wish for it!

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=Daventry;8731357]
Thanks so much! He should have been left as a stallion prospect, but we are starting to wind down our Section B breeding program and I didn’t want to stand another boy…and felt he would have a happier life as a hunter pony rather than a breeding stallion, so he recently had an alteration. Now I’m fighting with my husband, as he still wants to keep him. I want to sell him as a pony hunter prospect. He will be a nice sized medium. Genetics won’t let him be a large no matter how much I wish for it! :D[/QUOTE]

Pony is adorable but I just had to point out that is a fight I have never had- about a pony or horse Someone else is a “keeper” as well!!!

[Polydor]

Gorgeous boy.

What is an isabella palamino? Not heard that term before.

P.

[Daventry]

[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;8731433]
Pony is adorable but I just had to point out that is a fight I have never had- about a pony or horse Someone else is a “keeper” as well!!![/QUOTE]

lol Agreed! He’s arguing over this years colt as well. I guess that is better than wishing I would get rid of them all…though, he is an enabler!

[Daventry]

@Polydor;8731444

Gorgeous boy.

What is an isabella palamino? Not heard that term before.

“Pale palominos are sometimes called Isabellas, after Queen Isabella de-Bourbon of Spain, who is much remembered for pawning her jewels to fund Columbus’ voyages to the “New World”. Queen Isabella kept a hundred golden horses (but forbid her commoners to own one!).”
http://www.horse-genetics.com/palomino-horses.html

[Gamma]

[QUOTE=Polydor;8731444]
Gorgeous boy.

What is an isabella palamino? Not heard that term before.

P.[/QUOTE]

“Very pale”, basically. See the Wikipedia article for a picture.

[goodpony]

i personally think the dilutes are the hardest ones to tell on because they have so much cream/buff mixed in already. In the grown photos though his legs appear to be darkening which would be very classic of greying out.

[RutlandH2O]

I’m a bit confused. I thought that in order to have a grey, there must be at least one grey parent. Roan, being unrelated to grey, is produced by having at least one roan parent, as well. There are DNA tests for grey and for roan.

Grey foals grey out first around the eyes and head and then the body becomes grey, lightening throughout the years until they become almost white.

Roan does not lighten, and the head, ears, legs stay dark.

Your yearling certainly doesn’t look grey. He appears to be true palomino.

Perhaps there was something wrong with the test.

[Simkie]

[QUOTE=RutlandH2O;8731802]
I’m a bit confused. I thought that in order to have a grey, there must be at least one grey parent. Roan, being unrelated to grey, is produced by having at least one roan parent, as well. There are DNA tests for grey and for roan.

Grey foals grey out first around the eyes and head and then the body becomes grey, lightening throughout the years until they become almost white.

Roan does not lighten, and the head, ears, legs stay dark.

Your yearling certainly doesn’t look grey. He appears to be true palomino.

Perhaps there was something wrong with the test.[/QUOTE]

Just a little investigation on the site linked in the OP’s signature turns up that both the sire and dam of this foal are grey.

She’s been breeding ponies for quite some time–I think she knows how grey has to be inherited

[Daventry]

[QUOTE=RutlandH2O;8731802]
I’m a bit confused. I thought that in order to have a grey, there must be at least one grey parent. Roan, being unrelated to grey, is produced by having at least one roan parent, as well. There are DNA tests for grey and for roan.

Grey foals grey out first around the eyes and head and then the body becomes grey, lightening throughout the years until they become almost white.

Roan does not lighten, and the head, ears, legs stay dark.

Your yearling certainly doesn’t look grey. He appears to be true palomino.

Perhaps there was something wrong with the test.[/QUOTE]

No, those are valid questions. I should start by saying that any horse can be both grey and roan at the same time…but like you said, at least one parent must also be grey to pass on grey and at least one parent must be roan to pass on roan to their foals.

Sire is bay turned heterozygous grey and dam is palomino turned heterozygous grey.

There was a 25% chance of the foal staying palomino and 75% chance of him getting the grey gene. His dam’s sire is a palomino roan…and it was too hard to tell at birth if the dam also got the roan gene. (She greyed out incredibly fast like her daughter above) So, this colt “could” also possibly be roan and have gotten that gene from his dam if she was a palomino roan under her grey.

I pulled mane hairs and sent them off to Animal Genetics in Florida and it came back as having one copy of the grey gene. I have contacted them about running the test again. Sent photos along with the email. Haven’t heard back yet.

Everyone who has seen the colt swears he is NOT turning grey. So my theory now is…he may likely be an Isabella palomino roan + grey. The lightness of his coat plus roaning “may” be masking the grey coming in…and the grey masking the roan. If that makes any sense! At this point, that’s the only explanation I can come up with that explains his current coat color and the fact that his color DNA test results came back as Gg!

[JB]

Any chance of Silver? Silver on dilute can sometimes skip the hyper-pigmentation of early graying and go straight to lightening.

As for Roan -the markers are good enough especially when parents’ DNA and pictures (irrelevant when they are also gray) are available.

[Daventry]

@JB;8731930

Any chance of Silver? Silver on dilute can sometimes skip the hyper-pigmentation of early graying and go straight to lightening.

No, I don’t think that is possible. This is a photo of his dam as a weanling. She doesn’t look very “roany.”