Please educate me. So the Haffies have a different gene sequence to create the color…? Actually makes sense since there are never any other colors as you would see breeding palominos together….
Yes they do have black points. They are just the darkest version of bay, as they will test if colour testing is done. At this time, there is no test to differentiate between the two.
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Haflingers are chestnut with a pangare/mealy modifier which makes their mane, tail, legs and such lighter colored.
A Palomino is a chestnut with one allele of a dilution gene called the cream gene
The Haflinger breed does not have the dilute gene, though that mealy modifier is very common.
Someone who is good at color genetics can explain it better than I do.
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No there isn’t a test to differentiate between brown and bay. One lab said there was a different test, but were proven wrong.
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One of my friends brought a rooster to a horse show once…amusement for all ensued at the local riding club.
ETA: We had a lovely barn cat for a couple of weeks at the racetrack our racehorses stable at, until we found out that it was it’s owner’s granddaughters favorite barn kitty that had stowed-away in the trailer one race night. He picked it up shortly after the connection was made.
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As far as I’m concerned you explained it almost perfectly! All you missed is that their base is red. They will never have a black or bay based foal.
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Right, Haflingers only come in red. There are some liver chestnut versions, but all are chestnut. Only chestnut.
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Ooooh, That reminds me of a local show where someone brought a litter of pot bellied piglets to sell and they were parked ringside. Just use your imagination on how well that went…
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I’ve been hanging out in the FB colour groups too much! Chestnut/sorrel are both now refered to as red. 
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I once had a vet write “red” for a color for this horse. Not red bay, and maybe not even App, just “red.”. It bugged the dickens out of teenaged me at the time. Screenshot_20220506-133909-539|690x412
I always carry Nicker Makers for this very purpose.
Some guy was asking for advice on how to stop his Arabian from spooking at bicycles, so I recommended the treat trick.
“I don’t believe in treats!” he said, huffily.
Alrighty then. I do, because I’ve seen them! Also, have fun continuing to get yeeted.
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There’s a cool swing tune by Louis Jordan about a girl who dyed her hair chartreuse! I think it’s from the 1940s.
I don’t know if we will find out there really IS a 3rd (or more?) variation of Agouti besides A (“on”) and a (“off”). It’s true that the hold brown test was invalidated.
So, it’s all shades of bay, from the very lightest, to the very blackest-looking shade of tan/brown At some point the phenotype might be called “seal brown”
Aa does tend to be darker than AA, as the more Agouti is “on”, the more black pigment is restricted. I’ve never seen an AA be seal brown, for example, but it may be out here
Seal brown doesn’t always have black points. My own seal brown, by a very “black bay” brown himself (Gatsby) appears to have black points, until next to his normal bay dam, and when next to Rio who WAS black. Genetically the points are black, but phenotype isn’t necessarily truly black, as there are actually shades of black as well.
At one point there was even the theory that Wild Bay was another form of Agouti, At. But that was never a test so it was only ever theory.
Pangare is entirely separate and affects bay and red bases
The phenotypes of palomino and chestnut can really run together, especially if the chestnut is flaxen or the palomino has a good bit of sooty.
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Well, the Haflinger registry (at least in the US) still calls it Chestnut.
They are clearly not hanging out in the right place.
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Well, genetically the breed is red based, but they can call it what they want as far as I’m concerned. Isn’t it the Suffolk Punch registry that calls it chesnut?
Haflingers are chestnuts with flaxen manes/tales. Many haflingers have the pangaré coat trait (giving them lighter bellies/flanks/legs/eyes/noses), but that is not why they have light manes and tails.
The flaxen trait lightens the mane and tail, although the light/blond hair can be mixed with regular chestnut hair, especially in the tail.
Chestnut is recessive, and flaxen behaves as though it’s recessive (although the expression may be polygenic), so haflingers bred to haflingers will always produce flaxen chestnut offspring. Palominos, on the other hand, are heterozygous for the creme gene, so two palominos bred together can produce palomino, chestnut, or cremello offspring.
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Thanks! Learned somethign!
WHat about bays that have a definite “dun stripe” down the spine? My Bravo does - he is a dark bay (not black bay)…
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nd1
Dun is now 3 different variants:
D - full on Dun, coat dilution and all
nd1 - slight to not visible coat dilution, not nearly as much as D, with potentially 1 or more Dun characteristics, like light inner ear hairs (usually a dead giveaway), a good countershading dorsal, maybe some leg barriing or face masking. But the lack of full coat dilution is a the giveaway that it’s not real Dun
nd2 - no dun factors at all
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There are shades of black that aren’t as black. I’ve seen many non-faded black horses that look more brownish than black, but test EE or Ee. Colour genetics is a really interesting world once you get your head around it. Mine is only a small bit there, I can’t regurgitate all the whys and hows yet. Throw Champagne or Pearl into the mix and I step back and try to learn. Haven’t seen a lot of either around here, so I haven’t developed much of an eye. And I’ve given up trying to explain the difference between gray and roan to Standardbred people.
