The Derby Trail 2023 thread

[penelopeandthecats]

I will not discuss ethics of Todd Pletcher, that isa different topic. Has he been associated with racing drug violations as well as work place violations in the past ? Yes. Was that the purpose of my post? No. If you are looking for a discussion on those topics, I believe they were discussed elsewhere on this site.

I shared on this post what the perception of a “lay person,” not associated with horses or the racing industry when provided information on Fortes. Sorry is their reaction bothered you, but sometimes the trust hurts

I admire the people that love the horses and care for them with all their heart but I think the word “ethical,” and racing still remain far apart. Just t my opinion but some of those reasons have nothing to do with horses.

[Larksmom]

Penelope is clearly trolling you guys. I have never blocked anyone here but I am sorely tempted.

[Ghazzu]

I’m using it to decompress from haviing just submitted final grades, which, ironically enough were for Clinical Pharmacology.

Still, I have to stifle the urge to inquire about a houseboat, s/he being a JD and all.

[Bluey]

@penelopeandthecats

I will not discuss ethics of Todd Pletcher, that isa different topic. Has he been associated with racing drug violations as well as work place violations in the past ? Yes. Was that the purpose of my post? No. If you are looking for a discussion on those topics, I believe they were discussed elsewhere on this site.

I shared on this post what the perception of a “lay person,” not associated with horses or the racing industry when provided information on Fortes. Sorry is their reaction bothered you, but sometimes the trust hurts

I admire the people that love the horses and care for them with all their heart but I think the word “ethical,” and racing still remain far apart. Just t my opinion but some of those reasons have nothing to do with horses.

Animal rights proponents state that, completely ignorant of what caring for and working with animals entails.
Generally is smart if we don’t know about something, not to go to those that do it and tell them how bad we think they are.

Hear all those stories of teachers molesting kids and now decide that all teachers are child molesters, just some are caught at it?

That is like saying there are no ethics in racing.

Always keep in mind, how people conduct themselves depends on the individuals.
Some humans are decent, honest people, no matter what they do, some are crooks and cheaters.
We find all kinds of humans every place, true, but the smart humans know the difference.

Let’s be smart, learning more always helps when we want to offer opinions.

[penelopeandthecats]

I’m glad to say no! I didn’t want to work in an overworked and underpaid sector where people can be exploited. Backstretch workers at NYRA were given social support services by my church in NYC thirty years ago when many of the workers barely made ends meet and relied on public assistance. Crack use and alcoholism were both very prevalent. Education was inadequate, a large percentage could hardly speak English, and literacy was low. High school dropouts made up a sizable portion of those who struggled. Employee housing in Backstretch housing was a disgrace! Life was not simple at all. I wish more people had stood out for backstretch workers’ rights. It is my understanding that significant improvements have been made since I volunteered 30 years ago.

I’m not suggesting that everyone’s experience is what I experienced or saw, and perhaps things have evolved over the previous 30 years, but what I saw was a hard and ugly life. You witnessed the best and worse of horse racing. There is nothing about it that I would want.

Instead, I pursued a higher education, achieved financial success, and set out to pursue a career that gives me great joy and satisfaction. Additionally, I am free to keep my horses.

[Bluey]

@penelopeandthecats

I’m glad to say no! I didn’t want to work in an overworked and underpaid sector where people can be exploited. Backstretch workers at NYRA were given social support services by my church in NYC thirty years ago when many of the workers barely made ends meet and relied on public assistance. Crack use and alcoholism were both very prevalent. Education was inadequate, a large percentage could hardly speak English, and literacy was low. High school dropouts made up a sizable portion of those who struggled. Employee housing in Backstretch housing was a disgrace! Life was not simple at all. I wish more people had stood out for backstretch workers’ rights. It is my understanding that significant improvements have been made since I volunteered 30 years ago.

I’m not suggesting that everyone’s experience is what I experienced or saw, and perhaps things have evolved over the previous 30 years, but what I saw was a hard and ugly life. You witnessed the best and worse of horse racing. There is nothing about it that I would want.

Instead, I pursued a higher education, achieved financial success, and set out to pursue a career that gives me great joy and satisfaction. Additionally, I am free to keep my horses.

Hmm, ever really know “the rest of the story”?

We had grooms that came from the “state labor pool”, their clerk would call about please can you take this one fellow, seems that he just needs a chance?
Those were people that had been falling thru cracks of society and we gave them a hand up, a job, salary, decent quarters and a way to get back to society.
After these jobs they moved to town to better paying jobs.

Maybe someone from a church group may have thought to do good by bringing them old clothes, poor folks working cleaning stalls.
Displaced sense of reality that, how much would they be really helping them and how terrible it was they were working in a barn and had sketchy pasts, completely ignorant of what “the rest of the story” with them was?

[penelopeandthecats]

Thanks for the feedback, but I was not involved. I only shared what my experience was. The backstretch workers LOVE their horses and work very hard. As I said, they experience d the best and worse of horse racing It is a life that you want… It was not for me.

[findeight]

How much does your barn pay their barn help? What do you pay your show grooms? Do you know? Do you know their past history? Many barns besides the track offer entry level, physical jobs to all sorts of people and some barns take advantage, do you condemn all show horse barns and the shows themselves as you seem to be doing to racing?

[smoofox]

No one with crack or drinking issues would have a job for long on the backside - not even walking hots.

Instead, I pursued a higher education, achieved financial success, and set out to pursue a career that gives me great joy and satisfaction. Additionally, I am free to keep my horses.

So anyone who has worked on the backside has zero ambition and gets no joy or satisfaction out of what they do. That is a very elitist and dismissive comment IMO.

@penelopeandthecats

Thanks for the feedback, but I was not involved. I only shared what my experience was. The backstretch workers LOVE their horses and work very hard. As I said, they experience d the best and worse of horse racing It is a life that you want… It was not for me.

And yet you know all about it and come in here guns blazing - despite not being involved.

Many of us are not in horses for “financial success”. Us lowly barn scrubbers and leg-wrappers and foaling-outers have long hours, many 25 hour days and very few “vacations” or “weekends”.

And just when I am ready to give it all up and find something with less stress, less aches and pains and regular hours, I find myself sitting in the straw as a mare turns to see her newborn foal for the first time…

Her ears come up despite her exhaustion, her eyes get big… she reaches back towards that foal, flutters her nostrils and speaks that soft HmnnnHmmhhnnnnmmHnnnhhmm murmur of recognition that pulls at my heart and makes all the bad stuff melt away…

[findeight]

@penelopeandthecats

Instead, I pursued a higher education, achieved financial success, and set out to pursue a career that gives me great joy and satisfaction. Additionally, I am free to keep my horses

Good for you. Little tone deaf….

[BLBGP]

@widge

2.) Check horse on Saturday to see whether he has improved. Agree horse is off. Scratch horse.
Where is the conspiracy?

I guess maybe it’s throwing people that they galloped the horse first, then jogged? If he was off, why gallop?

[Maria]

Dang, I thought the Barisone threads were a bit wonky.

[penelopeandthecats]

Although the barn workers work and are AMAZING people !!!, I have no control over their remuneration. Are they deserving of more? Of course, they do; that much is obvious, but I have no influence over what they get paid.

Some will say I am crazy and say no problems; attacking me for my opinions. Others may share my sentiments silently. Perhaps this is the point at which one petitions Congress for assistance on behalf of the racing and backstretch communities to ensure fair pay and treatment of the racing and equestrian industry. I can’t do it by myself.

[penelopeandthecats]

Keeping my opinion. They did.

[frugalannie]

@smoofox

Her ears come up despite her exhaustion, her eyes get big… she reaches back towards that foal, flutters her nostrils and speaks that soft HmnnnHmmhhnnnnmmHnnnhhmm murmur of recognition that pulls at my heart and makes all the bad stuff melt away…

Best description of this moment I’ve ever read. It is a wonderful, heartwarming and very special experience.

[skydy]

KHRC: Forte Placed on Mandatory 14-Day Vet's List

[Laurierace]

I was wondering why people were talking about a match up in the Preakness. He would have to work for the vet in KY Saturday morning and jet up to Pimlico but he would already have to be on the grounds at Pimlico before then. Too bad they didn’t scratch him on Thursday…

[CBoylen]

@Laurierace if he had been scratched by the connections Saturday morning instead of the vets, would he still be placed on the list or would he be able to go to the Preakness if he were ready?

[2tempe]

Laurie - When it was said that Forte galloped Sat morning, was that for the vet? I am no expert on any of this but was wondering why they would have galloped him if it was thought he was NQR.
Edited to add - sorry we wont see him run at Pimlico; hopefully he will be back in form for the Belmont.

[Laurierace]

It varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction but in KY a vet scratch is at least 14 days so he could have scratched Thursday and worked for the vet on Thursday before the Preakness. In stakes races you can scratch for any reason so they may have been able to avoid the vet’s list altogether if had scratched him themselves. Good question!