The Grand Prix Special

[1derful]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;3448195]
How is this different from figure skating? IIRC from years of watching, if a skater hits the ice in any of their disciplines, he/she has pretty much lost all chance of a medal unless the other top skaters also fall.

In the final scoring why wouldn’t that have given IW damn close to a 0 on submission? And if it did (or should), how would that affect the total score?[/QUOTE]

Because if submission is based on one movement, perhaps some of the judges picked the movement that showed 10 submission.

Talking about incorrectness in vaiours rides (not Isabell’s): piaff with front legs not vertical (going under body); piaff without flexing the hip and stifle joints but just bending hocks; consistent short neck, behind the bit; extended trot hardly tracked up; collected trot with no front end lift and lowered hind end; - you covered the front legs, you’d see the hind end that is probably no better than your horse’s working trot.

[Roan]

Not trying to keep throwing the rules at everyone, just hoping that we can see where things are coming from by reviewing them –

These are the guidelines the judges are supposed to use:

Article 417 The submission / The impulsion

1. Submission does not mean a subordination, but an obedience
   revealing its presence by a constant attention, willingness and
   confidence in the whole behaviour of the horse as well as by the
   harmony, lightness and ease he is displaying in the execution of
   the different movements. The degree of submission is also
   manifested by the way the horse accepts the bridle, with a light
   and soft contact and a supple poll, or with resistance to or
   evasion of the rider’s hand, being either “above the bit” or “behind
   the bit” respectively.

2. Putting out the tongue, keeping it above the bit or drawing it up
   altogether, as well as grinding the teeth and swishing the tail are
   mostly signs of nervousness, tenseness or resistance on the part
   of the horse and must be taken into account by the judges in their
   marks for the movement concerned as well as in the collective
   mark for “submission” (No. 3).

3. Impulsion is the term used to describe the transmission of an
   eager and energetic, yet controlled, propulsive energy generated
   from the hind quarters into the athletic movement of the horse. Its
   ultimate expression can be shown only through the horse’s soft
   and swinging back to be guided by a gentle contact with the
   rider’s hand.

4. Speed, of itself, has little to do with impulsion; the result is
   more often a flattening of the paces. A visible characteristic is a
   more pronounced articulation of the hind leg, in a continuous
   rather than staccato action. The hock, as the hind foot leaves the
   ground, should first move forward rather than being pulled
   upwards, but certainly not backwards. A prime ingredient of
   impulsion is the time the horse spends in the air rather than on
   the ground; in other words, an added expression within the
   paces, always provided that there is a clear distinction between
   the collected trot and the Passage. Impulsion is, therefore, seen
   only in those paces that have a period of suspension.

[1derful]

I am most disappointed with Kyra and Max’s score. Way too high for me. I missed Bernadette’s ride. She and Vincent are always beautiful to watch and I can truly see the difference in the whole horse front and back for each of the movements.

[RunningwaterWBs]

So when is the Freestyle? Can’t seem to find it on NBC.com

[egontoast]

You guys sure know how to suck the joy out of everything.

I agree it was a beautiful test but I think his submission score should be dinged significantly.

For one movement? He did get dinged. He got a 6, I think. he probably merited an 8+ without that incident. It’s not like he fought his way through the whole test. Elvis, for example, who had some things lovely(ie passage) had submission/contact issues throughout. Satchmo had a stellar test with one glitch and so how would you mark that? Generally, with one exception, his submission was perfection.

hansiska, freestyle is Tues. I am loving this live stream video on the internet. it’s miraculous!

[Eyemadonkee]

I think they need to drop any score that is 3% or more off of what the rest of the judges average. I feel so bad for the US riders… they had beautiful tests, without running backwards/upwards during the piaffe. Too bad Isabell’s horse didn’t take out the fence… how awesome would that have been?

[yaya]

@Stubborn Mare;3448191

I do sometimes think that we need to decide whether or not dressage is truly a sport… if there is such a difference in ability between the world’s top three or four horse/rider pairs and everyone else, then it’s no kind of sport… the outcome is predetermined and unexciting. On the other hand, if there is a large-ish number of horses/riders of similar ability (say at least 10-15) then we should be able to get through an Olympics without being able to confidently predict the top two placings halfway through. Just my thoughts.

Does that mean swimming is not a sport when Michael Phelps is on the startlist?

(Yes, I KNOW swimming is not subjective! Same outcome, though)

[1derful]

[QUOTE=Eyemadonkee;3448229]
I think they need to drop any score that is 3% or more off of what the rest of the judges average. I feel so bad for the US riders… they had beautiful tests, without running backwards/upwards during the piaffe. Too bad Isabell’s horse didn’t take out the fence… how awesome would that have been? ;)[/QUOTE]

While watching diving, I was joking that not only the top and bottom scores needed to be dropped, and a judge who got dropped more than 50% should be banned from judging for a year.

Perhaps more judges are needed for the dressage tests and same drop score rule can apply.

I can just see the test entry fee be $1k for that 6-8 minutes.

[egontoast]

I think they need to drop any score that is 3% or more off of what the rest of the judges average. I feel so bad for the US riders… they had beautiful tests, without running backwards/upwards during the piaffe. Too bad Isabell’s horse didn’t take out the fence… how awesome would that have been?

You are an idiot.

[capricorn]

Which ones made it to the freestyle?

[1derful]

Long-form rewind is up… signing off…

[ridgeback]

[QUOTE=egontoast;3448238]
You are an idiot.[/QUOTE]

And you are clearly disturbed!!!

[candico]

I think I saw it somewhere, but who is the judge at E? Just seemed way off on Courtney’s score… I agree with Theo on these four being an exciting glimpse to what is ahead for dressage. Courtney is sooo elegant and tactful in her riding and with more confidence in her own ability she is going to be brilliant and hopefully an inspiration to all. And Steffen is just magic with all the horses he rides.

That said, I’m also rooting for Balagur!

[RunningwaterWBs]

[QUOTE=capricorn;3448241]
Which ones made it to the freestyle?[/QUOTE]

The top 15 on this list:
http://www.nbcolympics.com/equestrian/resultsandschedules/rsc=EQX001200/index.html

As the #15 rider, Ashley Holzer just made it!

The judge at E is the German judge. Check out the link I posted and scroll down for the judges.

[frugalannie]

Can someone explain how one can go back and see the rides that were missed? I assume it’s somewhere on the NBC website, but I can’t seem to figure it out.

[RunningwaterWBs]

Go here, then scroll down to the videos. Click on “See more equestrian video”:
http://www.nbcolympics.com/equestrian/index.html

[justalittlex]

[QUOTE=BLBGP;3448171]
So Dressage is more similar to figure skating? Where a routine with brilliant jumps but a major fall will beat a routine that is really good but not as extreme?

There’s no reward for a horse that does it all right? I guess with the politics and all I thought dressage was similar to hunters. But a hunter that breaks stride (or heck, rears and runs backwards) will never beat a less-brilliant horse that trucks around - even with politics. I guess I learned my something new today.[/QUOTE]

my thought exactly.

[vineyridge]

Well, one good thing–the riders in the top 15 are from so many different nations that no country has to drop a rider from the freestyle.

[akor]

Wow! A faceoff between who can have the best ride that INCLUDES a major disobdience!

I think it’s clear, in that case, why IW is first at the moment. Anky has been beat at her own game! I hadn’t thought of that angle, maybe it really did work to IW’s advantage;)

So, if you are in 3rd/4th, are you scurrying about trying to find music to match a buck, then schooling your horse for such an event?

I’m too old to appreciate this “new” dressage. But, it makes for fun internet chatter!

[J-Lu]

I think if people took the time to understand how the technical aspects of dressage are scored and looked at the point distribution in the actual GP and GPS test, they might have a better understanding of the outcome.

On that note, I’d pay money to watch anyone tell Gary Rockwell in person that he robbed Courtney and Steffen by inflating Isabell’s and Anky’s scores.