The Grand Prix Special

[Stubborn_Mare]

[QUOTE=yaya;3448233]
Does that mean swimming is not a sport when Michael Phelps is on the startlist?

(Yes, I KNOW swimming is not subjective! Same outcome, though)[/QUOTE]

Interesting. You’re right of course, but I think that in general (not being a swimming fan) Phelps is a historical anomoly - and an individual, not a country. Take that one individual out of the equation and you have a more level playing field. There will always individuals who dominate throughout their career, and every sport needs stars. But why is it with dressage the stars only come from certain stables, and they are untouchable by everyone else? Again, I’m not saying that it’s necessarily about nationality (though it may be), but I saw far too much tension in the top placed tests for my liking. It just doesn’t make sense to me but I suppose that’s why I’m not an O judge yet.

Still, we have a truly international freestyle comp and that’s something to celebrate!!

[Equibrit]

So - what was that thing Mythilus was doing with his left front foot in the passage?

[slc2]

Looked like the Cha-Cha. Got him some extra points, I’m sure.

[egontoast]

Looked like his leg was totally relaxed and hanging loose from the knee. He was not the only one. I don’t think it was a fault though, is it?

If so, why?

[slc2]

The hooves are supposed to point the toe right at the ground (rather than fetlocks being curled up tightly). That indicates relaxation.

[dressagetraks]

I just watched Courtney, Steffen, Anky, and Isabell on rewind during lunch. Will watch the rest later. Here are my lower level thoughts, which with $4 will get you a gallon of gas.

Courtney - She is going to be fantastic. This horse is marvelous, too; love him. They look like a top pair to me who aren’t QUITE totally there yet, but boy will she be great in 2010 and 2012. I love her reactions, too, and her feeling for her horse. She really seems to have a good partnership and a lot of appreciation for her beastie.

Steffen - Man is this horse talented. Not as good as he will be (2010 anybody?), but awesome ride. I was surprised on the scores on this one. Would have had him in second of these four.

Anky - She just doesn’t look happy to me this Olympics. The waves to the crowd are there, yeah, but she doesn’t seem like she’s enjoying it as much as she has in the past. She seems to be working more than usual to ride him, too, team and today. My humble impression. Salinero had several rough spots and doesn’t always track up. I was surprised on the scores here, too. Or actually, I was not, but I would have liked to have been. Judging from my computer and admitting that the worst rider there could ride rings around me, I still think Steffen had a better test than Anky today.

Isabell - My first reaction at the piaffe was OH CRAP!!! It really looked bad. But Isabell officially gets my nerves of steel award for the Olympics. To go on, and to do another piaffe right after that one. I really can learn a lot from watching top riders make mistakes and just recover and go on. That moment aside, though, it looked like a very good, very smooth test. She went for more in extensions today than in team. It was jarring there for a moment, but I do agree with the score and with her being in first, based on the rest of the test. If he’d had another moment like that, repeated offenses, nope. But that one movement did not cancel the whole rest of the test. I think they deserved a lousy score there, but I also think it was a great test otherwise. Her score was fair. Anky’s wasn’t. Steffen’s wasn’t.

JMHO.

[danceronice]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;3448195]
How is this different from figure skating? IIRC from years of watching, if a skater hits the ice in any of their disciplines, he/she has pretty much lost all chance of a medal unless the other top skaters also fall.[/QUOTE]

Old system, yes. In the new skating scoring system there are so many different deductions possible, you can have a fall and still beat a clean skate with a lower degree of difficulty or more small errors in execution. (For reference, look at the ladies’ skating from Torino 06–Sasha Cohen and Irina Slutskaya had more falls and errors than Fumie Suguri, the fourth-place finisher, in fact Sasha hit the ice twice, but both also had more difficult elements–higher spin values, higher grade of execution marks on footwork, etc. They racked up enough points that even with some serious errors, they still came out ahead of Fumie. The only “clean” program on the podium was gold, with Shizuka Arakawa and some argued she dumbed it down a little by taking out her triple-triples to avoid risking deductions for underrotating.)

Admittedly, many people now hate this, because while the average figure skating TV viewer (as opposed to obsessive fan) can’t tell a level one spin from a level three, everybody knows what a butt plant looks like. They had to change a little how jumps were being called because some people (coughJeff Buttlecough) were being given 0 or POSITIVE grades of execution for managing to rotate a quad in the air–even when they fell on the landing. That meant they still got points for a quad. (Now falls are downgraded.)

Dressage, IIRC, is scored in a similar way–you can have a major flaw on an element, but if everything else on the test has a high score, you could conceivably beat someone who was clean overall but whose scores were only middling.

[La_Gringa]

Isabell has to have the most composure of any rider I have seen, to come back so smoothly after her horse lost it… I think she deserves the score she got. I did think her test over all, even with the mistake, was the best.

Beautiful to watch…

[grayarabpony]

For those of you who think tension can’t cause unevenness, did you check out the first part of Anky’s test? :lol: I thought she finished up well though. Salinero looks much better than he did 4 years ago.

Isabella Werth’s test was gorgeous except for that one piaffe. I was holding my breath, thinking oh my gosh he’s going to back out of the arena! But they recovered very well. I LOVE her horse!!

[system]

[QUOTE=dressagetraks;3448383]
I just watched Courtney, Steffen, Anky, and Isabell on rewind during lunch. Will watch the rest later. Here are my lower level thoughts, which with $4 will get you a gallon of gas.

Courtney - She is going to be fantastic. This horse is marvelous, too; love him. They look like a top pair to me who aren’t QUITE totally there yet, but boy will she be great in 2010 and 2012. I love her reactions, too, and her feeling for her horse. She really seems to have a good partnership and a lot of appreciation for her beastie.

Steffen - Man is this horse talented. Not as good as he will be (2010 anybody?), but awesome ride. I was surprised on the scores on this one. Would have had him in second of these four.

Anky - She just doesn’t look happy to me this Olympics. The waves to the crowd are there, yeah, but she doesn’t seem like she’s enjoying it as much as she has in the past. She seems to be working more than usual to ride him, too, team and today. My humble impression. Salinero had several rough spots and doesn’t always track up. I was surprised on the scores here, too. Or actually, I was not, but I would have liked to have been. Judging from my computer and admitting that the worst rider there could ride rings around me, I still think Steffen had a better test than Anky today.

Isabell - My first reaction at the piaffe was OH CRAP!!! It really looked bad. But Isabell officially gets my nerves of steel award for the Olympics. To go on, and to do another piaffe right after that one. I really can learn a lot from watching top riders make mistakes and just recover and go on. That moment aside, though, it looked like a very good, very smooth test. She went for more in extensions today than in team. It was jarring there for a moment, but I do agree with the score and with her being in first, based on the rest of the test. If he’d had another moment like that, repeated offenses, nope. But that one movement did not cancel the whole rest of the test. I think they deserved a lousy score there, but I also think it was a great test otherwise. Her score was fair. Anky’s wasn’t. Steffen’s wasn’t.

JMHO. :)[/QUOTE]

Wow, I know zero, nada, ziltch, nothing about dressage, but am an old ex-ballerina, and love to watch dressage because it looks like the horses are doing ballet…anyway, I just watched all you talked about above and totally think that the guy (steffen) did way better than the Anky woman. (i’ve never heard of any of these people).

Just my humble uneducated, sittin’ in the peanut gallery, opinion.

[FAW]

Several have asked this question with no answer…

WHEN is the freestyle?

[ridgeback]

Question: Is the special and freestyle worth 50% each to come up with the individual Gold, Silver and bronze medal?

[ridgeback]

[QUOTE=FAW;3448410]
Several have asked this question with no answer…

WHEN is the freestyle?[/QUOTE]

http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/Schedule/EQ.shtml

keep this link so you can see the scores etc!!

[buryinghill4]

[QUOTE=Mardi;3447750]
Balagur is a joy to watch. So happy in his work.[/QUOTE]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrqf9WzdxvY

[YankeeLawyer]

@vineyridge;3448195

How is this different from figure skating? IIRC from years of watching, if a skater hits the ice in any of their disciplines, he/she has pretty much lost all chance of a medal unless the other top skaters also fall.

Actually, that is incorrect. There was that somewhat scandalous judging incident that gave a Russian pair the Gold medal, despite a fall, over a Canadian pair that was also brilliant but did not fall. And following a protest, both pairs were awarded gold.

That said, I do not think the spook was akin to a skater falling. It is more like a skater hesitating off the ground and taking an awkward step, or a gymnast taking a big step on landing. Those are not fatal errors.

And I am very, very impressed by Isabelle Werth’s ability to immediately get past an error and no give up or get rattled. There was some beautiful riding there, imo.

[Bugs-n-Frodo]

Actually, like I said before, the test score that REALLY upsets me is Anky’s. Isabell’s score, IMO, should have been lower than it was, but I still think her test was very nice, well ridden and had that extra pizazz to it. Anky’s score was ridiculous! The thing I liked the most about her test was her passage/piaffe transitions, all but one of them was just about perfect. Isabell is a wonderful rider with composure that I admire. I DO think Steffen’s test should have scored better. You KNOW Anky will get an outrageous score for the freestyle, she always does. I hope one or both of our USA riders will push too and get a great score. If Isabell got the gold, I would not have a problem with it, but if Anky gets it, I will be so disappointed, so far, this has not been a gold medal olympics for her.

[TeddyRocks]

Isabel’s test

[QUOTE=KristiC;3448120]
Ummm did you see the rest of the test??? Watch it again. Do you think that one mistake is going to lower every other great score. The test was beautiful except for the spook.[/QUOTE]

I just watched all the rides that I missed before (last group)… As far as Isabel goes, I agree that the test rocked except for the spook/bit issue/whatever it was… And I think IW handled it perfect, and I think if we got to see the test, the scores afterwards would be higher than the scores before the incident. He was electric! And of course I’m sure she got nines or 10’s on her trot half passes… (I hope)… They are heaven… And if you put in a two for that movement and everything else 8’s (and we know some of the scores were higher than 8’s), then if my math is correct, the score was too low… not wanting to start a battle. My math may be wrong.

I dont think Anky’s ride today was great. Her team ride was much better in my opinion… So the score was much too high. Just didn’t look like anything about the ride was teamwork…

Steffan should have beat her score. It was dazzling. What a horse. What a team. And Courtney (Miss Cool) Dye, and the darling Mythlius should have been right there also… Watch out 2012!!!

And I had never seen Heike and Bonaparte before these games, and that team will and should be giving everyone a run for their money. VERY nice…

GO USA!!!

[J_Lav]

[QUOTE=akor;3448052]
Anky should get 10s on some moves and 1-2 on others. But, she doesn’t. Rather than getting “extra” points, I guess it might be that her scoring scale starts at a 6 as rock bottom and go from there. I think she is given an “8” in the judges heads and then any “small” or “large” error might be 0.5 or 1 point off. So, I do think they have a different scale in mind when the score her. It’s the only thing that can explain some of the scoring to me.[/QUOTE]

Actually in the GP the other day I can tell you that Anky’s marks went from a 3 (for the final halt) to 9’s and she had 4’s, 5’s 6’s 7’s and 8’s as well. But when there are alot more 8’s and 9’s then there are 3’s and 4’s then your score will still be high.

[J_Turner]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;3448195]
How is this different from figure skating? IIRC from years of watching, if a skater hits the ice in any of their disciplines, he/she has pretty much lost all chance of a medal unless the other top skaters also fall.

In the final scoring why wouldn’t that have given IW damn close to a 0 on submission? And if it did (or should), how would that affect the total score?[/QUOTE]

I love Michelle Kwan, but she has stood in first or second after the short program even with a fall, I believe. Of course it depends on the kind of fall. If she didn’t complete a combination that would be brutal. But she is so brilliant and steady and correct (at the same time, which is hard to achieve) at the same time.

Unfortunately her skating didn’t work as well in the new scoring system which places more emphasis on being Gumby-ish (Ie - how often and for how long one can hold ones foot above ones head) rather than on skating (edges, etc.) Of course her hip couldn’t hold up to the triple-triples (especially the loop motion). That hip also hampered her in the layback spin which emphasizes back and hip flexibility - her weakness. If she had been younger, she might have more energy and time to adapt. But look at the sport without her - to me it’s awful.

Anyhow - in skating they post the protocols - scores for each movement. Do they do that here. I know the flash them in the stadium. Not really fair we can’t see them.

[Eyemadonkee]

[QUOTE=egontoast;3448238]
You are an idiot.[/QUOTE]

It is a pleasure to have you on the boards.