The "heavy" horse and the hunter ring

[cswoodlandfairy]

So I have a young OTTB, he is 6. Hes a year and a half into his training. We worked on jumpers first as that was his RRP class, but ended up dabbling in the hunters. He was wonderful at RRP last Oct in both. He is far more suited for the hunter ring, however he is heavy. So I know I am part of the problem, if I pull he pulls more… aka typical OTTB. So when I school him at home he goes wonderfully in a three ring with converters. I dont pull and he is super soft. Great for the jumpers, obviously not so much hunters.

I just changed his career in June, so its somewhat new to him, but usually has been really soft. Lately though, through him and me, he is great over the fences but the ends of the ring are a galloping disaster. Hes been going in a broken fullcheck. It was a thicker one. If I attempted a halfhalt it meant nothing and did nothing. So we went to a thinner copper one. Works a bit better but again he is SUPER heavy and I pull back (again a work in progress for me).

That being said, while I am working on myself, what is a hunter appropriate bit that I can show in that would not encourage me to pull as I work through it? While I ride at home in his three ring, he does not curl, yet in other strong bits it does not take much for him to curl, so worried a Pelham would be far too much for him, hes SUPER sensative.

I currently have him in a Myler slow twist with the copper roller. I have breaks but I have not jumped in it, I dont jump at home only weekly in lessons. So not sure how it will work. But looking for other options if anyone has an ideas?

Again I know I am most of the problem, but in order for me to work on myself I need to be able to show and work over fences in something hunter legal that will allow me to stop leaning on pulling.

Thanks in advance!

[fivestrideline]

@cswoodlandfairy

If I attempted a halfhalt it meant nothing and did nothing. So we went to a thinner copper one. Works a bit better but again he is SUPER heavy

I know you were looking for bit suggestions but… it sounds like this horse doesn’t really understand the half-halt, and/or isn’t strong enough to rebalance through the turns while going slow.

“Heavy” usually means “on the forehand and trailing the hind end”, and these guys can usually feel better when the rider allows them to go forward and gets the booty back underneath them. In practice, the jumper ride feels easier, even if the horse remains uneducated and unfit.

A sharper bit just shoves the hind end further out behind while slowing the tempo some, but rarely does it rebalance the horse if the rider is doing all the same things in both bits.

This horse needs reschooling, gymnastics, and fitness work, I think.

[CBoylen]

There are 1000 mouthpieces in a D that you can try, between where you are now which is basically nothing, and a jointed segunda or a twisted wire or a wrapped bicycle chain being the furthest end of those. You’ll just need to experiment on what’s enough and what is too much. Although if he goes well in the three ring with the converters, I’m not sure why you would shy away from a nice rubber Pelham.

[fivestrideline]

@cswoodlandfairy

I currently have him in a Myler slow twist with the copper roller. I have breaks but I have not jumped in it, I dont jump at home only weekly in lessons. So not sure how it will work. But looking for other options if anyone has an ideas?

What mouthpiece is in the three ring? I’d try to find a similar mouthpiece in a Pelham (with two reins), or maybe one of the Myler’s with hooks. Those are going to be somewhat similar to the 3 ring, though slightly different action.

A Waterford is another option that some horses appreciate while not letting them lock up and lean.

[MHM]

@fivestrideline

A Waterford is another option that some horses appreciate while not letting them lock up and lean.

That one was my thought as well.

[cswoodlandfairy]

But isnt a Myler with hooks illegal in the hunter ring? I mean the twist with copper roller I do have with hooks as I used it for my jumper a couple years ago.

[cswoodlandfairy]

I believe, and I could be very wrong, but that the chain action would be what would cause him to go behind the vertical. The three ring is just a single joint one. Now I will say that he LOVES to stick his tongue out of his mouth always on the right side when he doesnt have a flash on but thats usually only while not focused on something else

[cswoodlandfairy]

I agree, we definitely have some reschooling to do. The issue is that when in the three ring I can keep him on his hind end and hes quite lovely through the corners. Its at shows when hes in a hunter bit and no flash (I forgot to mention his three ring has a flash)

[fivestrideline]

If they’re illegal, that’s recent. ish. Worth checking the rulebook. We used several Mylers with hooks and curb chains in the hunters a while back. They’re perhaps “unconventional” for some judges, but you really can’t tell from the booth.

Worth checking the rule book though!

[cswoodlandfairy]

Alright all, in an effort to toss myself under a bus. Here is a round from last weekend at a horse show. I am 100% ammy so I know I have many faults, but I would consider myself a decent rider with normal ammy bad habits

https://youtu.be/PKVBhghLfwo

[fivestrideline]

@cswoodlandfairy

I agree, we definitely have some reschooling to do. The issue is that when in the three ring I can keep him on his hind end and hes quite lovely through the corners. Its at shows when hes in a hunter bit and no flash (I forgot to mention his three ring has a flash)

Okay, so the horse goes in a gag with a flash, and sticks his tongue out. Add that to the heaviness and barreling around corners and I think you really have a training problem. Not every horse can jump in a snaffle, don’t get me wrong, but if he can’t “listen” without a gag bit and his mouth strapped shut, you have more problems than a bit can solve. Again, I’m not saying the setup is bad, I’m just saying that taking the extra equipment off shows you your training holes. Even a loose flash has a dramatic effect on their ability to open the mouth.

I’d really go back to basics with this horse rather than going bit shopping. Get him really listening to the half halt at all gaits, do gymnastics and trot jumps and pole courses, and see if you can get dressage lessons or RideIQ at the least. The roller bit isn’t a bad starting point, or maybe a Waterford to borrow.

[MHM]

For me the link says the video is private.

[cswoodlandfairy]

Should work now. Had it on private accidently.

[ThreeWishes]

Lovely horse. Definitely gets quick and anxious in the corners. And if you could relax and slow the canter pace down the lines you would not get in so tight and close to the in fence of the related distances. How is your horse at home? I’d go back to the drawing board. And work on adjustability and relaxation between fences. Exercises where you canter in and trot out. Or trot in come to a walk and canter out. Any combination of upward and downward transitions between and within the jumps and course. So your horse is listening. And trusting. Instead of rushing through to get it done.

[Paint_Party]

I appreciate that you had some trepidation about posting a video of a show round, but it helps make your issue clearer.

Your horse is very cute and looks fun, so I can see why you’re excited about showing him. However, if he were mine, I’d still be at home or in clinics and lessons, working on flatwork and gymnastics. If you watch the video, he’s not actually getting quick in the corners. He’s getting quick as he jumps out of his lines and then he lands already zooming forward with you struggling to rebalance and collect him. So for starters I’d be doing lots and lots of trot in, canter out, and halt in a straight line gymnastics until the cows come home.

He also wants to run past his optimum take-off spot. That causes him to jump out over his front end. He looks like he wants to jump cute, and it’s obvious that when he gets to the right spot, he does jump well. But again, he’s getting strong and quick to the base of many of his jumps. He’s not soft on his approach, so he’s not “patting the ground” before he leaves. As has been mentioned, this is more of a schooling and training issue not necessarily something that can be remedied with more bit or a different bit.

At least that’s my opinion, and what I’d do if he were mine. I could be wrong.

[Demerara_Stables]

You’ve gotten good advice here about this being more of a training issue. I would also add, that while counter intuitive, try to stay out of the saddle with a more closed hip angle on landing. I know you want to sit to slow him and balance him, but I’ve ridden a few TBs that really don’t like you sitting down on the backside. For horses like this, I like to get in two point and canter rails on the ground until they’re boring, then move to cavalettis, then cross rails and finally small verticals. All in 2 point. That will keep your body out of the equation and help him to carry himself.

But first, as @fivestrideline said, school him on the flat and get his hind end under him so he can balance/carry himself.

He’s very cute and you guys look great together!

[NaturallyHappy]

I agree w all the posters above who have suggested flat work and training. I quite like this horse. If the trainer you are working with is a riding teacher versus an actual hunter/jumper horse trainer, it might be worthwhile to look for someone else to help you bring him along.
He’s very willing and jumps nicely. He needs to learn to “wait”. The is time and patience. Because he is so nice, don’t allow your trainer to push him too fast and not work on basics.

[AAHunterGal]

This is exactly what I’m thinking. I don’t think you have a “corner” challenge as much as you have a “green jumping” challenge.

You either get out of the lines deep and he gets anxious about it right after the jump, or you come into the lines deep and need to “run” out of them which just sets you both up to fail in this regard.

I would agree with the others to go back and just school/train at home. Do crossrails on a circle so you can’t get much momentum going. Practice cantering to poles so you get more comfortable adjusting his stride to get the right distance. Work on slowing him down more by getting him to bend through his body than just leaning on the bit. Once you have a horse that’s more broke on the flat and understands his job a bit more over fences, he won’t get so anxious.

The other thing I would do is that if you DO go to horse shows, I would focus less on winning and more on schooling. For example, if I had a horse that got fast in the corners, and I jumped in deep to the first one, I would just go “oh well” and add a stride in the line to make sure I had a quiet horse coming out. Now the challenge with yours is that deep distances out also seem to make him anxious, but the adjustability work will make the add easier.

Hope that helps, he’s very cute and you make a lovely pair!

[NaturallyHappy]

This is why I wonder about the quality/ability of the trainer. So many trainers drill you MUST get the numbers, regardless of the way one jumped in, instead of helping the rider learn to
make good decisions based upon the approach.

[wanderlust]

@Demerara_Stables

You’ve gotten good advice here about this being more of a training issue. I would also add, that while counter intuitive, try to stay out of the saddle with a more closed hip angle on landing. I know you want to sit to slow him and balance him, but I’ve ridden a few TBs that really don’t like you sitting down on the backside. For horses like this, I like to get in two point and canter rails on the ground until they’re boring, then move to cavalettis, then cross rails and finally small verticals. All in 2 point. That will keep your body out of the equation and help him to carry himself.

All of this! I totally understand why you want to get a little in the back seat, but you are actually causing him to scoot and fuss with your weight behind you and a bit of a driving seat, and then you are having to hang on his face to get him to stop. He’s confused and frustrated a bit, I think.

I would also stop jumping and work on that canter for a bit… right now it is quick and tight, but from the trot it looks like he naturally has good movement and just needs to relax into a longer, sweepier step. Lots of flatwork, lateral flexion work at the trot to loosen up the base of the neck and shoulders. Things like overbend and counterbend through the whole body, spiral in and out on a circle, etc. You want to get him to start reaching forward and out for the bit and then lengthen his whole frame.