The "heavy" horse and the hunter ring

The “add” is your friend right now! I would plan to add in every line.

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I watched the video, and the first thing that came to mind is “he looks fun!”! You have a cute horse, and I think y’all make a nice picture. He’s just green, and being asked for more than he can do successfully in the way that you want.

With the video, I will reiterate that this is absolutely not a bit issue. Others have said it really well, but your issues aren’t strictly him getting heavy in the corners, your problem is more that he’s not adjustable in the way you need, and he’s not confident over the jumps. In the jumpers, this is hidden by going fast, I would imagine.

I would be working really hard on this horse’s transitions within the gaits, doing lots of pole courses until he can canter around and find all the spots and be bored, trotting in over fences and cantering tiny stuff with placing poles on either side. Along with lots of gymnastic flatwork.

This is a totally common, entirely fixable issue - but it won’t see you winning in the show ring next month. IIWM, and I wanted to show this horse, I’d be doing baby schooling stuff and trot-in-canter-out everything until the other pieces are in place.

Find a mouthpiece he likes and go from there! Oh - and check your saddle fit. I had a horse that never got out of this as his default way to go - turns out the saddle was an ATROCIOUS fit. Despite the rep saying otherwise. He was scooting out from under me while jumping because the landing side HURT - but he was a good boy and didn’t want to kill me. His flatwork was still really nice. Food for thought!

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This thread made me remember the 6 minute clip of an exercise that Beezie Madden demonstrates called “gaining control after the fence”. It might help in your situation.

If you are a USEF member, you can access the video in the USEF Network section of Clip My Horse.

Laura Kraut has a video on the USEF Network as well, titled “Exercises for Quick horses.”

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Nice horse but he’s not really broke enough to go to the fences but can be fixed. IMO. Echo what everybody else has said, he needs to relax…as does the rider. OTTBs usually school out of pulling once they learn to go longer and lower in front and use their back ends properly but it takes awhile and lots of consistent work.

I would lose the stick, not needed and he knows you have it.

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I think he’s cute, and I think you are capable, but I don’t think the two of you are ready to show 2’3" yet! He should still be cantering (or trotting) ground poles and cross rails till you you can do it on a soft rein, staying our of his mouth, and he shows you relaxation all the way around the course, including the ends. You are really hanging on him. You are actually more stoic than I would be about staying cool when he is really scooting at the ends. But that should not be happening. He needs to master the smaller stuff with you in a relaxed way before you move up. I agree that you need to get up off his back…and out of his mouth…and let him learn to coast along with some self carriage

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Add me to the ‘training and experience issue’ list, not bits.

I also agree that he’s super-cute! And you are quite a nice rider.

Sometimes we see the potential, and we want to be enjoying the end point right now. Unfortunately, that’s what gets horses over-exposed in their early experience, picking up brain farts that can last a lifetime.

You seem to be a nice rider on a nice horse. But clearly the two of you get inside each other’s heads. Each of you starts making the other partner nervous. You are both worrying about what the other one might do. The first four or so fences were lovely, but it was downhill from there, anxiety meter on a constant rise … which of course is why you are posting. :wink:

I am really not sure why you want to put on a stronger bit, which is the very thing that is likely to make all of this worse.

You’ve gotten great advice already. So rather than add (= repeat) anything, I will say this, as a stranger who can’t be held accountable: Sometimes trainers get their students out into the ring way ahead of readiness – because they think that it is good for the trainer, now, regardless of the long-term impact on horse & rider. It’s often better revenue than lessons at home. They think it keeps the rider happy and interested. They are concerned that if their riders aren’t out in the ring, they’ll leave for some other trainer who will put them out there.

And sometimes it’s the student who doesn’t want to wait, regardless of the trainer’s better judgment.

I have no idea if either or both of those scenarios is happening for you, OP. Just a thought for why your horse is rocketing around a low hunter ring, that he has a lot of potential for, but not quite ready now.

Another observation of your descriptions – you said he started showing in jumpers, but you just switched him to hunters 2 months ago. So, to me, it seems that your expectations of great hunter rounds at shows are not entirely in line with what would normally be a solid transition process.

I do get it that he’s going great at home. A testament that you are getting some things right, there. But that isn’t transitioning to the off-property show atmosphere. Understandable.

Per the video, in the show ring, he doesn’t understand. He starts well, but is quickly overwhelmed. If he did understand he would do what you want, because he’s expressing his willing attitude.

Per the video, as others are saying, he does not need more pressure in his mouth, which is going to make him more anxious. Bits are not a magic wand. He needs to learn to stay calm and think. That’s a process, because you can’t explain that to a horse.

Rather than taking him to shows, I’d be taking him to off-site schoolings with other horses/riders from your barn. If he gets too excited and fast at an off-site schooling, it’s easy to adjust your plan in that moment, and cool off the ask. Help him better understand without a lot of bitting.

One more thought for you – how does he go over a course of 10 to 12 poles on the ground? You can start fixing a lot with no height, or very little height. Then there is a second transition process to gradually getting higher off the ground. But it’s a start to not getting faster and faster as the round continues. Circle when he speeds up. Control his route, let him know that the next obstacle isn’t promised to him unless he can do it at an even pace.

This are the things I would be thinking about. Rather than bitting up, I’d be looking for a program / plan that would develop me and my horse closer to riding the perfect hunter round on a D-ring with a slack rein. It may never be quite that good, but we can work toward it, and be happy with something reasonably close.

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I’ve watched Linda Allen clinics back long ago and she had riders circle between fences to slow them down - slow BOTH of them down! Results in a softer picture. Easier for the rider to relax and stay out of the horse’s mouth. Remember bending breaks resistance.

There’s too much hand in your ride. Tension in your arms. I’d be working on your using the connection to your shoulders to your seat and relax the rein. the horse will drop and soften.

How often do you use jump gymnastics? Can you ride a chute with no hands?

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Further to this – the pattern you are on now can negatively affect you as a rider, as well as your horse. You riding more defensively (I appreciated your slightly-forward feet were ready for anything! as that is a good way to stay on, no matter what). As well as your horse traveling more defensively.

But I see an enormous potential for both of you! Definitely update us in a year when it is all sorted out. So we can enjoy an updated video of a super round! :grin:

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What a cute horse!
He doesn’t seem heavy to me but rather strong and green.
If this was my horse I would trot every single corner. I would trot into lines and canter out. Canter in and trot out. Canter in, Circle and canter out. Anything to get him back, balance, slow down and relax. I would do a million transitions on the flat and over poles to start. I’d be doing all this in a snaffle even if it means jumping goes back to 18” to stay in control.
Best of luck to you !

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I noticed the forward leg, too, and wondered if sometimes it might contribute to the scooting away on landing, if it means that the rider’s body might end up a little bit behind the motion as a result, and potentially hitting the back in a way that isn’t super obvious to an observer.

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Ok so you are going to hate me, but drop your hand and put more leg on in the turn. Just stay over until you get to the turn. He will soften and you’ll find the ins better and will be able to balance to the outs which will help with the turns.
I didn’t actually look to see who posted this earlier, but now that I did you know I think he’s worth the effort!

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There are far more experienced riders who have commented on here but I wanted to say kudos for being bold enough to post a video.

Years ago people sharing videos was a huge part of COTH and I think it really helped tailor the advice. Unfortunately, the general culture around video critiques in other spaces seems to have broken down the trust on here. I have always found COTH to be a place that really enjoys celebrating wins and wants to package feedback in a way that is growth minded.

You two are a really cute pair and I think that implementing the ideas suggested will have you a very different horse and overall ride in six months.

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I’d forgotten I had the opportunity to be her assistant years ago at a 2day clinic. Gosh, she’s really great human and a superb horsewoman. I remember one rider asking her how long it would take before (I forget now what it was) got better. Linda very graciously said “all riders are individuals and all horses are, too. It takes as long as it takes”.

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Thank you for referencing Linda Allen. You brought some great memories to mind. She was always a generous, kind and helpful fellow human and yes, a fabulous horsewoman.

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Indeed. I would recommend Linda’s book, 101 Jumping Exercises, for this pair. Trust Linda and start at the very beginning, don’t skip exercises. It promotes straightness and calmness and confidence in both horse and rider.

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At home he is wonderful! I never have these issues at shows. I am very well aware I am using too much hands, this is a work in progress, but I dont use as much in the three ring. But I really need something that will help me get over it while showing. Not a bandaid, but a crutch, until I can fix myself as well.

Here is a video of him at home in his thin full cheek a week before the show…

https://youtu.be/mjlbqNJpO4U

Oh I was worried. I have been torn apart before posting a video. I try to be upfront and very aware of my issues as well as what we are trying to overcome. I really think he can be a hunter I just need to figure out shows and the ends of the ring and me not pulling!!! Frustrations of being an ammy haha

Thank you! Actually I get told to plant my hands on his neck (more exaggeration right now) because if I lift up it creates more ammo for him to bolt. So I am trying, but to be honest, I also struggle to keep them down when he puts his head up cause hes so short bodied I feel like I have no room to put them down, if that makes sense?

I will also toss myself under the bus while I am at it and say I am VERY well aware of a bad habit I have from previous horses that when this stuff happens or I get nervous I DO add leg to leverage my body and not realize it while I am doing it. So that also does not help the current situation :woman_facepalming:

Thank you… Like literally your statement right here explains all… " You seem to be a nice rider on a nice horse. But clearly the two of you get inside each other’s heads. Each of you starts making the other partner nervous. You are both worrying about what the other one might do. The first four or so fences were lovely, but it was downhill from there, anxiety meter on a constant rise … which of course is why you are posting. :wink:"

He is not always an honest horse. He will look for an out if it is there. Hence the stick and slightly defensive riding. He is getting better and ironically gotten more confident going into the hunters than the jumpers, its actually helped both of us. But I dont 100% trust him like I do my jumper. If I screw up, thats his out. But when hes confident I am confident so we totally get into each others heads and we BOTH are trying to anticipate what the other will do… wonderful circle huh. But it seems to only be in shows. Ive taken him off grounds and had no issues. I took him to KY and on a whim decided to show him in hunters and had lovely rounds (minus lead changes).

I am not looking to win today, I definitely want to do it right. My trainer isnt pushing me to show, but at the same time our issues are always at shows so I as the rider feel the more exposure the better it will get. I actually like to add, he is MUCH better. But everyone says dont do it, thats not what hunters do.

This is why I love jumpers, so less complicated to look pretty haha

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OK, this is a semantics issue. Don’t plant your hands because that gives him something to pull against. It’s actually what they do to run. And you do need to put on your leg in the corner, get that inside leg on him as you stretch up and lighten your seat, get the hand down, but make sure that you’re still giving from the elbow, not planting.
Edited to add that you were doing a much better job carrying your hands without bracing in that video from Kentucky, so I think you may have misunderstood some advice that has led you the wrong direction.

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