The hole that was the abscess/strangles

[hundredacres]

I have seen plenty of information on caring for a horse with strangles…nothing explicit at all on what to do with the cavity that is left behind. My instructions are to flush it with a betadine/warm water solution. I’d like to know what you all know about the gaping hole (that is quite frankly freaking me out)…what you have done to keep it clean and monitor it and how long it takes to heal?

Also, anyone have ideas on the timing of disinfecting the stall? Wood walls, dirt floor inside the stall. I have been disinfecting everything that goes in and comes out from the beginning, as well as the concrete aisle in a 5 ft bubble around his stall at every feeding. I’m not handling my other horses at all sniff.

Oh, some background: I got a new Haflinger gelding on the July 2nd - he looked mopier than he appeared in his videos from 2 weeks before, and had a slight runny nose so I was diligent about quarantine from the get-go. On the 5th I noticed ick in his water, checked his temp (104) and checked his jaw - and yep, there was a walnut sized abscess forming. The abscess finally reached softball size on the 12th and blew out yesterday. I’ve been flushing it. The vet says NO antib’s…only bute to keep him comfy. Well more comfy anyway.

Any anecdotal advise on this gaping hole will be greatly appreciated. I’m thinking once he seems to be showing no more signs (no discharge, no temp fluctuation) I’ll go crazy and blitz his stall. Again, would love any advise on how other people have gone about that process.

[rcloisonne]

My mare blew 3 large abscesses in the throatlatch area. Most of the skin died and she wound up with a large section of skin from jawbone to jawbone just hanging there (really gross). We flushed the area with dilute betadine 2X/day. Not much else you can do and believe it or not, it heals eventually without a noticeable scar.

Do have cultures taken after he seems better, before introducing him to the herd. Some of them harbor the disease in their respiratory system for a long time. SOP is three negative cultures taken randomly over a thirty day period.

You can’t disinfect wood. Sorry, you just can’t unless you bake it at high temperatures.

Good luck and hang in there!

[esdressage]

Do you guys get habronema infections (“summer sores”) in your area? If so, you need to be careful not to end up with habronema larvae in there.

If you do, let me know and I’ll continue with a way to help keep the area larvae-free.

[hundredacres]

Thanks rc…it’s hard to imagine how this hole actually heals. It’s plain freaky to look at (3 must have really been gross!). I’ve heard how wood can’t be disinfected…but this wood is the older treated oak from the 70’s - I wouldn’t be able to paint it because it was probably soaked in some sort of petroleum based oil. I wonder if it makes it less penetrable by the bacteria. I’ve read it doesn’t thrive outside though…so spraying the walls down daily should help, right? If the wood can’t be disinfected, what on earth do I do?

My vet did mention the cultures - I’ll get with him on Monday about when to start those, thanks for the reminder. Do you remember when you started them?

esd, I’ve never heard of that larvea…it sounds scary. I’ve been worried about the flies getting into it - I’m coating the outside with SWAT and furazone…I don’t know if they will actually go inside though gag…I suppose with the flushing, there shouldn’t be any “dead” flesh for them to lay eggs in, correct?

[hundredacres]

Hey esdressage, thank you for mentioning the habronema infections - I googled it and a picture of it popped up. My friends horse had this mystery spot on her lip and I think that is what it is (it looks exactly like it). She’ll appreciate the help!

[caballus]

One can’t disinfect wood but we can strengthen the immune system of the individual horses.

For Strangles (both for prophylactic and for treatment) I use homeopathic SILICEA. If its a particularly nasty abscess I’ll use a very strong potency just once. If a milder case then I’ll use a more gentle, less potent dose and may dose TID for up to 3 days. Because your guy has blown out and is active I’d give a 200c potency just once. The easiest way, actually is just to throw a couple of the pillules in the pm water bucket. That’s all. Easy. For the other one, to help the body get rid of any remaining yuk, I’d give a 6c TID for 3 days. That is directly for the abscess.

What I’d add into their feed would be high levels of Vitamin C (4000 mgs daily) and an ounce of dried Echinacea herb. I might also give Milk Thistle to help strengthen the liver at this point. Plus, I’d add a variety of fresh vegetables, fruits etc. to their pm diet.

But, that’s just what I would do and with what I’ve had success.

[fivehorses]

Zirkon is highly recommended as a disinfectant since it will kill the strep equi bacteria on inanimate surfaces such as the wood. Not all disinfectants will kill the strep equi bacteria.
You would have to make sure the wood is covered to ensure no areas are not missed.
Sunshine also is great at killing the bacteria too. So I would put shovels, pitchfork, water buckets- anything you can move outside.

I also hope you are covering his poop and stall refuse with lime to avoid birdies or bugs from picking up any and transporting it elsewhere.

Good luck.

[Delyth]

We had a case of bastard strangles run through the farm years ago. I was amazed at how well they all healed up with little intervention – the vet recommended not to fuss much with the open sores – wash them out if dirty yes, but nothing on them that would keep them from draining/drying out. And ours didn’t just have one gaping sore on the jaw – with the bastard strangles we had 4-5 open sores all over the face and head. That was … not pleasant, but they did all heal and with no visible scarring.

[rcloisonne]

@hundredacres;4983071

Thanks rc…it’s hard to imagine how this hole actually heals. It’s plain freaky to look at (3 must have really been gross!). I’ve heard how wood can’t be disinfected…but this wood is the older treated oak from the 70’s - I wouldn’t be able to paint it because it was probably soaked in some sort of petroleum based oil. I wonder if it makes it less penetrable by the bacteria. I’ve read it doesn’t thrive outside though…so spraying the walls down daily should help, right? If the wood can’t be disinfected, what on earth do I do?

Wait. Under ideal conditions, strep equi only survives 6-8 weeks outside of the horse. We didn’t worry about it at the barn where I boarded because all the horses had been infected. You could try putting urethane on the wood. Dunno though.

Flies can also carry the disease so that is a concern this time of year. Ditto barn cats.

My vet did mention the cultures - I’ll get with him on Monday about when to start those, thanks for the reminder. Do you remember when you started them?

After all signs of the disease have passed. Regular cultures are about 60% accurate. Far better to have PCRs.

Not to scare you but my mare wound up with more than 50 chondroids in her left guttural pouch which required surgery to remove. There were no signs of this until 6 months after she “recovered”. She would have been a carrier had I moved her off this farm before then (which I so wanted to do but was afraid).

It’s a terrible disease for both the horse and the caretaker.

[hundredacres]

caballus, thank you for the recommendations. Much appreciated.

Delyth, isn’t bastard strangles internal? Actually I was told to watch for signs of bastardizing…I was totally confused about how to actually do that (because I thought they are internal). I can’t imagine what it was like to have the whole barn infected like that knocking wood

rcl & fivehorses…no :(…I did not consider the flies and the cats. I do keep his buckets and forks and even wagon separate (and everything goes out to the driveway to lay in the sun)…we take his soiled bedding and manure to the burn hole far from any pastures. I’m so worried now - I’ve been so vigilant in every other way…

Off to find Zircon. I really don’t understand the theory that wood can’t be disinfected though - as rcl suggested, if the bacteria can’t survive more than days or even weeks outside of a host, how can it “stay” in the wood? It would eventually become neutral wouldn’t it? Urethane is an interesting suggestion!

“It’s a terrible disease for both the horse and the caretaker.”…yes, it is. I feel horrible because this horse is new to us - I feel like he thinks I’m a meanie…all I do is take his temp, wipe his nose (he’s sick of that), keep him cooped up and now spray his open sore…I just worry we’ve started off on the wrong foot. He does seem to appreciate his soaked alfalfa cubes and chopped apples (for his bute) :)…maybe that will be what prevails!

Thanks so much for the constructive input.

[hundredacres]

So I’m wondering about the flies…even if I did cover the wagon and buckets with his manure _ I really can’t control the flies that are in his stall in between cleanings, and on him in general. When he had a lot of discharge (god that was so gross) the flies gravitated to his buckets and the walls wherever he’d slimed on them - I cleaned those several times a day but it would be virtually impossible to control them :(.

He is in the farthest stall in the barn, but only 3 stalls from any other horses. I don’t think there is any way they haven’t been exposed if the flies are carriers. He’s been here exactly 2 weeks…and I believe he had it the day he arrived. When are we out of the woods? I guess I can talk to my vet about that on Monday too - but you guys give instant gratification by supplying answers so much sooner (thanks again).

[fivehorses]

Yes, wood anything can be disinfected with the correct product.

Bastard strangles is when strep equi(strangles) matastasizes outside of the normal areas. Not totally being medically correct, but it travels through the blood stream to other areas of the body, usually the stomach or lungs, and forms a walled off abcess, sometimes they burst, which usually kills the horse.

I have had one horse with normal strangles…young colt, back in the 60’s who just about died from it until we finally found a horse vet who came, slit open the abscesses and drained them and put him on antibiotics…this was at a dude ranch/boarding type barn, and my stars…horses all around him eating and drinking out of the same buckets!!! can you imagine, today I’d be freaking out at that kind of care. LOL.

My heart mare, caught strangles which developed into bastard strangles, it was a 6 month ordeal, with Dr. Timoney from Gluck advising us on how to treat. Her abscess did burst , but somehow she survived. It was a tremendous medical bill, mostly in medications.
Bastard strangles in my mare’s case was very little purulent discharge, but erractic high fever, depression and lethargy. She came home, she had been at SUNY@Morrisville for training, when I realized she was a very sick horse among many sick horses there. She had been given 3 days of penicillin at 15cc for a 2,000 pound draft horse! When she got home, the vet said 60cc, I think it was twice a day.
So, not sure if it was the low dose of the penicillin which turned it into bastard strangles or just the luck of the draw.

hundredacres, it sounds like you are doing all the right things. Its a lot of work, but your horse will recover and go on to live well.

Rcloisonne, I respectfully disagree that the bacteria only survives 6-8 weeks, there have been reports that show it survives much longer in optimal conditions.

I think Dover sells Virkon, but I would bet valley vet, kv vet, etc probably do as well.
good luck.

[SLW]

When my colt had strangles this spring my vet had me flush the abscess site w/ a clorohex/water solution then inject a cow mastitis medicine (Procaine Penicillin G) into the site until they closed up. It healed like a charm.

[esdressage]

So the reason I mentioned keeping the flies (and habronema) away is because it’s such a hard area to bandage. My mare had a non-strangles wound under there last summer, habronema got into it and it turned nasty fast. Whether or not the habronema is an issue, if keeping it covered IS something you would want to do (I’d check with your vet), here’s what my vet had me do:

Get a pair of queen-sized pantyhose, cut the top portion off, cut holes for the ears and eyes, and simply slide it over the head. It creates a breathable barrier. You can slide in a non-stick sterile square gauze if you want (I did) and it’s easy to get on and off.

After the vet cleaned up the wound, this helped it heal up fast.

[hundredacres]

Thanks again for the clarifications fivehorses. It’s simply amazing that horses survived anything so crude like you described. Sort of like how we all survived without car seats and helmets I guess But thanks so much for your encouragement too - I feel like I’ve had this horse for months, and it’s just been 2 weeks. My other horses look at me from over the gate and wonder why they are on a vacation :(…this is hell for me. And I don’t even know if the new horse is suitable for my daughter yet ~~ I hate to whine but it is very wearing! But at least it happened while I am not working sigh (see, even the silver lining is bad…)…and it hasn’t rained. He’s being QT’s in the last stall that floods so we don’t use it. [stop whining!]

SLW, when you say that you injected the penG into the site, do you mean you used it topically in the cavity? How long did that take to heal?

esdressage, that bandaging idea is ingenious! Thank you!

[SLW]

Yes, it is a medicated gel that I injected into the abscess site. One site was larger than the other. It seems like I only did this for four days. After that just used the clorohex wash to clean away remaining goobers.

Good luck with your horse!

[Thomas_1]

Pressure wash your stables and all fencing and use Virkon.

I know you can get it in the USA and it is called Virkon there too.

(never heard of Zirkon though?? I’m thinking someone might have hit the wrong key or misheard the product name)

http://www2.dupont.com/DAHS_EMEA/en_GB/products/disinfectants/virkon_s/index.html

Keep the wounds open and hence allowed to drain and warm compress and flush out with a surgical antiseptic solution. You’ll be able to get something from your vet.

This is possibly one of the better on line resources re strangles:

http://www.equine-strangles.co.uk/Treatment.asp

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=caballus;4983228]
One can’t disinfect wood but we can strengthen the immune system of the individual horses.

For Strangles (both for prophylactic and for treatment) I use homeopathic SILICEA. If its a particularly nasty abscess I’ll use a very strong potency just once. If a milder case then I’ll use a more gentle, less potent dose and may dose TID for up to 3 days. Because your guy has blown out and is active I’d give a 200c potency just once. The easiest way, actually is just to throw a couple of the pillules in the pm water bucket. That’s all. Easy. For the other one, to help the body get rid of any remaining yuk, I’d give a 6c TID for 3 days. That is directly for the abscess.

What I’d add into their feed would be high levels of Vitamin C (4000 mgs daily) and an ounce of dried Echinacea herb. I might also give Milk Thistle to help strengthen the liver at this point. Plus, I’d add a variety of fresh vegetables, fruits etc. to their pm diet.

But, that’s just what I would do and with what I’ve had success.

[/QUOTE] What a load of tosh!

Wrong and rubbish advice from start to end!!!

[hundredacres]

No worries Thomas. I’m following the advice of my vet.

BTW, the abscess hole is 90% healed - it’s just a scab now. The horse developed a pulmonary infection just after the abscess broke and we tackled that too. Then, just as the light was getting brighter at the end of the tunnel, another abscess appeared on the side of his jaw/neck (gutteral pouch area). The vet is lancing that today because we had put him on the a/b’s once the first one broke and the pneumonia reared it’s ugly head. The horse is in MUCH better shape now than he was the first go-round 3 weeks ago - no nasal discharge or fever.

I hope to never see a case of strangles as long as I live - let this be my first and last please.

Prognosis is good though. Will do many cultures and keep this horse QT’d as long as needed.

[hundredacres]

I forgot to mention, my vet got me some disinfectant and made me up some wound wash. We’ve got this disinfecting thing down to a science now.