[QUOTE=Thomas_1;5001164]
What a load of tosh!
Wrong and rubbish advice from start to end!!![/QUOTE]
Not wrong – in your OPINION it might be rubbish but not wrong.
[QUOTE=Thomas_1;5001164]
What a load of tosh!
Wrong and rubbish advice from start to end!!![/QUOTE]Oh Thomas … the info is not wrong. You may not like it and your opinion may be that its rubbish but its not wrong information or suggestion.
This is what I would do. Great protocol for deep wounds, abcesses etc.
I also would use a tank sprayer and spray down his walls and buckets with either diluted to the directions clorohex, or diluted bleach. Also, any equipment this horse uses that another horse might come in contact with.
[QUOTE=craz4crtrs;5001731]
This is what I would do. Great protocol for deep wounds, abcesses etc.
I also would use a tank sprayer and spray down his walls and buckets with either diluted to the directions clorohex, or diluted bleach. Also, any equipment this horse uses that another horse might come in contact with.[/QUOTE]
Yep, been doing that like crazy. I’ve used more disinfectant in the last 3 weeks than I have in 3 years.
Then you are doing every thing you can. It will get better. Hang in there.:yes:
[QUOTE=hundredacres;4982948]
I have seen plenty of information on caring for a horse with strangles…nothing explicit at all on what to do with the cavity that is left behind. My instructions are to flush it with a betadine/warm water solution. I’d like to know what you all know about the gaping hole (that is quite frankly freaking me out)…what you have done to keep it clean and monitor it and how long it takes to heal?
Also, anyone have ideas on the timing of disinfecting the stall? Wood walls, dirt floor inside the stall. I have been disinfecting everything that goes in and comes out from the beginning, as well as the concrete aisle in a 5 ft bubble around his stall at every feeding. I’m not handling my other horses at all sniff.
Oh, some background: I got a new Haflinger gelding on the July 2nd - he looked mopier than he appeared in his videos from 2 weeks before, and had a slight runny nose so I was diligent about quarantine from the get-go. On the 5th I noticed ick in his water, checked his temp (104) and checked his jaw - and yep, there was a walnut sized abscess forming. The abscess finally reached softball size on the 12th and blew out yesterday. I’ve been flushing it. The vet says NO antib’s…only bute to keep him comfy. Well more comfy anyway.
Any anecdotal advise on this gaping hole will be greatly appreciated. I’m thinking once he seems to be showing no more signs (no discharge, no temp fluctuation) I’ll go crazy and blitz his stall. Again, would love any advise on how other people have gone about that process.[/QUOTE]
do as thomas 1 says
and for the hole you can help it with a hot poultice that you dont need banadages this poultice is made for places like that is used for abceess that are open and yukky
you can buy it in usa or on line
kayolin poultice it comes in tub or in a sachet and you can normally get about 6 applications from one packet
heat it up in a bowl of hot water and apply directly to the area and over the wound hole, or lump whatever is there smoother it
this will draw out all the pus you can wash it off when it drys later we normally do this 3 times a day then morning and night until the wound starts to heal or starts to go
the other thing you can do to help the horse
please be aware this is an aid not a cure or an alternative but an aid and it will make you think your helping the horse which you are old days remedy
go get a hessian sack or an onion bag one that has holes in it ok
then get some vick rub or methol crytals ok
a bit of bailing to tie the sack to bottom of head collar
to help releive the horse as they can not be sick so any muck comes down there noses but as strangles is viral infection which affect the airways and lungs what we trying to do here is releive the horse of that congestion
so heres how
you put a handful of hay at the bottom of the onion bag or hessian sack
you then spoon out a teaspoonful of vick rub and drop it on the hay inside the bag - or you drop a couple of menthol crystals
you do not want to over do it = you then boil a kettle of water so the water is steaming hot and you pour the water over the crystal or vick inside the bag
you attach that same prepared onion bag or hessain sack to the bottom of your head collar you tie it into postion low enough so he cant eat the contents but high enoough that he can stuff his nose in so is releivved by the steam and vick/methol crystals
this will tehn clear his nose and any muck formed in his airways will come down in big lumps and yuk into the bag
this will releive a horse up to 15/20mins
you empty the contents and burn them and can repeat the process as many times as you like
once the horse is over it then burn the sack to
you also need to have a foot bath on entry exit at your yard and power washer to wash the wheels and wheel arces of cars and stuff be fore they leave
you need to disinfect every thing from brooms and equipment like that to tack to rugs to grooming kits and your clothes as you need to ahve another set of clothes when up the yard or a boilerman suit that you can atke off plus rubber gloves
and the yard need to be closed until the infection has been given the all clear
[QUOTE=caballus;5001365]
Oh Thomas … the info is not wrong. You may not like it and your opinion may be that its rubbish but its not wrong information or suggestion.[/QUOTE]
really - well to honest i will take thomas vote over yours anyday
why
becuase he happens to be a professional
[QUOTE=hundredacres;5001321]
No worries Thomas. 
I’m following the advice of my vet.
BTW, the abscess hole is 90% healed - it’s just a scab now. The horse developed a pulmonary infection just after the abscess broke and we tackled that too. Then, just as the light was getting brighter at the end of the tunnel, another abscess appeared on the side of his jaw/neck (gutteral pouch area). The vet is lancing that today because we had put him on the a/b’s once the first one broke and the pneumonia reared it’s ugly head. The horse is in MUCH better shape now than he was the first go-round 3 weeks ago - no nasal discharge or fever.
I hope to never see a case of strangles as long as I live - let this be my first and last please.
Prognosis is good though. Will do many cultures and keep this horse QT’d as long as needed.[/QUOTE]
I’m pleased to hear you’re getting on top of things and the horse is improving.
Strangles is an awful disease. I’m always VERY shocked when I hear some folks talk about how many times they’ve had it in their stock and make casual mention as if it’s inevitable and very minor.
Fact is that its fatal for 1 in 100 horses when it’s contracted.
Furthermore for 30% of horses that contract it, there’s quite debilitating serious long term consequences.
Good luck with the on going improvement with your horse and hopefully you’ll not see the disease again.
[QUOTE=caballus;5001365]
Oh Thomas … the info is not wrong. You may not like it and your opinion may be that its rubbish but its not wrong information or suggestion.[/QUOTE]
I was absolutely right when I said you were wrong. I wasn’t expressing an opinion I was expressing a fact.
You CAN disinfect wood and you said you can’t. For equine strangles, then the bio-security disinfectant of choice is Virkon.
You said you can strengthen an immune system of a horse with strangles by feeing it with Vitamin C (4000 mgs daily) and an ounce of dried Echinacea herb. You said feeding Milk Thistle would strengthen the liver at this point. That’s wrong!
So when I said you were wrong it was a fact.
My opinion is that you’re deluded and are dangerous when it comes to offering advice and particularly when it comes to anything which could perhaps have serious consequences if incorrectly treated and managed.
But then again that might also be a fact and I just might be right.
Well, perhaps you can enlighten us all and tell us just what Vit. C, Echinacea and Milk Thistle DO do? What are their properties and to what use are they indicated? Obviously, I disagree. So, who’s wrong and who’s right? But I truly am interested in why you seem to feel that Vit. C, Ech. and Milk Thistle would not do what they are reputed and proven to do in therapeutic herbal support?
With regard to disinfecting the wood. I was always advised by vets to use bleach and water BUT – rcloisonne stated this – and since I really have little experience with Strangles then presumed that she knew better than I so repeated what she said. She usually is pretty spot on … here’s from post #2 – [QUOTE=rcloisonne;4982997]
You can’t disinfect wood. Sorry, you just can’t unless you bake it at high temperatures.[/QUOTE] So perhaps, Thomas, instead of concentrating your efforts on telling ME, specifically, that I am wrong you might want to share it with the others who have said the same thing, as well? Or, is it just me who is wrong?
(Edited to add links to studies)
Resources for studies done on the efficacy of Echinacea:
http://www.herbmed.org/Herbs/Herb6.htm#Category1Herb6
On Milk Thistle:
http://www.herbmed.org/Herbs/Herb120.htm#Category1Herb120
On Vitamin C:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19263912
caballus, I truly appreciate your effort and time you spent posting your thoughts on healing from strangles. If I were more confident in an all natural approach I would have probably used your advice. Perhaps someone who is more confident in it will benefit from your post - so all is not lost.
But I’m the scientific type and lean on science to help me, my family and animals. I will use herbs and tinctures when it isn’t something as serious as strangles and pulmonary distress…
I use herbs them to calm my mare, and I have a grey mare with cosmetic melanomas and we’re attempting an herbal treatment to slow the growth. I also have a pony with cancer and there is no treatment for it so we are being a little more cavelier with our efforts to slow his condition with herbs (we have nothing to lose in his case as he is otherwise healthy and not suffering whatsoever, but the tumor is growing and will eventually interfere with his comfort, but it’s not yet!). But honestly I think there is a balance - and in this case - when the horse could die from serious complications (like pneumonia which we faced) I won’t take ANY chances on the health of my animals.
I appreciate people who promote alternatives but I worry about it when those people give free flowing advice with something as serious as the topic of this thread. The 2ndary infection caused by strangles can be life threatening. I hope you understand why some people bristle when it’s presented like fact that it will help. There isn’t anything factual about herbal alternatives. There is anecdotal evidence but that doesn’t sit right with me when I have to make the right decision on a moments notice.
It seems a life in balance means between science and nature - not just nature. Science is good too.
hundredacres, (who has a bottle of echinaccia right here, but wouldn’t dare use it for a serious illness like strep).
And, for what it’s worth (and if anyone came here seeking advice on the same topic) I got a wealth of information from this article:
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=5537
I appreciated how it broke down the types of disinfectants and gave step by step directions. I hope it’s useful to someone else!
[QUOTE=Thomas_1;5003224]
You CAN disinfect wood and you said you can’t. For equine strangles, then the bio-security disinfectant of choice is Virkon.[/QUOTE]
I seriously doubt anyone in the biosecurity bussiness would claim you can sterilize wood with any chemical. Have you ever seen a building containing biohazard material constructed with wooden walls and floors? I haven’t. You can’t sterilize wood unless you bake it at high temperatures for a period of time.
And in the US, the morality rate from Strangles is about 10%, usually from one of the potentially fatal complications such as bastard strangles and/or purpura hemorrhagica, although some develop such serious swelling of the glands in the throat their air is cut off and they - ta da - strangle! Unless there is a vet right there ready to perform a tracheotomy, they die.
Some also fatally founder from the high fever (usually serious sinkers with hoof capsule loss). Some may die during surgery for the removal of chondroids. Lots of ways to die from the aftermath of a Strangles outbreak.
I do agree and am appalled there are people on this board who treat Strangles as nothing more than a bad cold.
Homeopathy can be and is sometimes used as a COMPLEMENTARY to traditional medicine as can the herbs. The herbs I mentioned are to help boost the immune system and help strengthen to liver so it can do its job of getting rid of toxins more easily. Echin., Vit, C. and Milk Thistle will not interfere with antibiotics in any way and can enhance the healing.
There is a HUGE, GAPING difference between the terms “disinfect” and “sterilize”. Very, very few materials can actually be sterilized. Period. Wood cannot be sterilized, but it is absolutely a surface that can be disinfected thoroughly. Especially if it has some type of seal on it.
OP- It’s nice to hear your horse is doing better. Without a doubt, that’s due to your hard work.
[QUOTE=rcloisonne;5003922]
I seriously doubt anyone in the biosecurity bussiness would claim you can sterilize wood with any chemical.
Have you ever seen a building containing biohazard material constructed with wooden walls and floors? I haven’t. You can’t sterilize wood unless you bake it at high temperatures for a period of time.[/QUOTE]
NOTE: The word was “DISINFECT”
The bio-security disinfectant of choice for wood where there’s been equine strangles is Virkon.
It’s also used for the likes of bio-security protection and risk prevention for foot and mouth disease.
I used gallons of the stuff every single day during the outbreak over here on wood.
[QUOTE=caballus;5003990]
Homeopathy can be and is sometimes used as a COMPLEMENTARY to traditional medicine as can the herbs. The herbs I mentioned are to help boost the immune system and help strengthen to liver so it can do its job of getting rid of toxins more easily. Echin., Vit, C. and Milk Thistle will not interfere with antibiotics in any way and can enhance the healing.[/QUOTE]
You’re still wrong but go on I’ll indulge you. Do please tell :
What do you actually mean by “boost the immune system”? Please be VERY specific?
Then,
Exactly how does this “boost” contribute to healing holes and draining abscessing in cases of Equine Strangles?
Also,
What’s the dose (quantity and duration) for it to be effective?
and finally,
What’s the evidence?
Thomas, I am so done with your questions thread and thread after thread. You’ve badgered me and followed me around whenever I’ve mentioned homeopathy or herbal treatments. You’re not a stupid man – you know exactly what I am saying and exactly where to find out info if you truly wanted to. But we all know that that’s not what you want; you merely want to badger [edit] There is plenty of info on the internet, in the journals, in the library, in the texts, in the hospitals, in the feed & tack stores – I posted a number of references above from clinical studies. Do your own work. I’m tired of playing games with you and frankly, just don’t have the time. Call me wrong if you’d like. Call the studies wrong if you like. Call the millions of Drs. and Vets worldwide who use complementary AND alternative medicinal treatments wrong – Whatever floats your boat. If being such a closed minded, cantankerous [person] is what makes you feel better then have a blast. Continue on. But stop bothering me and do your own work.
[QUOTE=caballus;5005978]
Thomas, I am so done with your questions thread and thread after thread. You’ve badgered me and followed me around whenever I’ve mentioned homeopathy or herbal treatments.
no he doesnt you open yourself up every time you post something
that you think works when in truth you quote a lot from what you read or quote other people for saying its gospel
and your own web site is no different
herbs are an additive - not a cure not alturnative medicine
try and understand what additive means
You’re not a stupid man – you know exactly what I am saying and exactly where to find out info if you truly wanted to. bit rude that baiting him
thing is there a huge difference between you and him
1-- he is an expreinced horseman 2- hes highly professional and well respected here in uk 3 he is an a high class bhs examination centre which in part any bhs course covers - horsecare, management , diet, feed, and feeding, plants and grasses farriery, and health care etc
so therefore doesnt need to look up something he already knows
But we all know that that’s not what you want; you merely want to badger and have the excuse to be the arrogant, belligerent old fa*t that you are.
now that is rude
again i will stress - he is a british horse society exmination centre
in which it means people go to him to sit there exams for the bhs stages and courses and will add there are many stages before one can teach or become an accredited instructor all of which covers all horse care all management, stable management ,welfare, plus all types of disiplines fitness, youngstock, schooling breaking etc in riding and driving etc
There is plenty of info on the internet, in the journals, in the library, in the texts, in the hospitals, in the feed & tack stores -
so there is and your point is----- oh you can read
I posted a number of references above from clinical studies.
thats procisely my point
you qoute- references ----- you post what you think is right when in truth you havent a clue and its wrong
again the diference is between you and tom
is he a qualified accredited trainer meaning he is the teacher he already knows what what and doesnt need a book to tell him
he teaches others ----- hes a high class trianer / instructor that covers everything
let me put it as plain and simple for you
he never never ever ever comes on here to ask ------ xyz
he comes on here and answers xyz and he does that from his heart
he helps people giving them free advice when he doesnt need to
he sees and he tells
and he seeing you - as mis informing others so he as a teacher /trianer
then he will tell you outright - when your wrong
and with you he dont beat about the bush and try to pretty it up
he tells you exaclty whats what purely becuase you mis inform people and are dangerous to other public users on this bb as you give misiinformaton
and out of the goodness of his heart hes trying to protect other from listening to you
as your highly dangerous giving it the be all and end on a subject
that goes on hearsay - ie quotes as it turns into chinses wispers or third hand knowledge
thats like playing rollette with a bullet in the chamber of a gun and sticking it to the side of your head playing the game of chance
Do your own work. I’m tired of playing games with you and frankly, just don’t have the time. Call me wrong if you’d like. Call the studies wrong if you like. Call the millions of Drs. and Vets worldwide who use complementary AND alternative medicinal treatments wrong – Whatever floats your boat. If being such a closed minded, cantankerous old bas*ard is what makes you feel better then have a blast. Continue on. But stop bothering me and do your own work.[/QUOTE]
god your so rude and out of line
at no time has he ever spoken to you like that - you only mad becuase you know why
hes right and there no way you can denign that so rather than admit you get agrressive and defensive and call him names and shout him
yeah yeah we all know you want to be heard and get attention
truth is - no magic cures and potions of this and that and pretending to be this and that and jumping on other people aswell when they cant defend as banned etc isnt going to get you anywhere either
ever heard of fools gold - your rich in that one
and matey only people that are jealous and have no real standing or scurpals do that as that little green pea of jealous turns into a snowball that they cant control
so they bully people into there way of thinking only shove it down there thoarts any which devious way they can when it dont work then it becomes fret and then they feel thretened
so they shout and scream and utter words- to no avail
as truth truth hurts so do facts to the unknowledgable person that cant admit they were or are wrong
good luck in righteousness and jealousy - one day thats going to cost you a lot of money
[QUOTE=caballus;5001365]
Oh Thomas … the info is not wrong. You may not like it and your opinion may be that its rubbish but its not wrong information or suggestion.[/QUOTE]
Thomas, we’ve all learned just to ignore him/her. Rubbish it is. But you’re right. This is way too serious to have someone actually take the advice.
I remember an argument about feeding practices. Caballus recommended feeding sprouts which are known to cause salmonella in susceptible individuals. I just ignore Caballus for the most part.
And believe it or not…I’m a firm believer in homeopathy and alternative medicine WHEN practiced by a knowledgeable practitioner. A knowledgeable practitioner does not spout off their opinions and attempt to diagnose or treat on an open forum, they treat each patient on a case by case basis after a thorough investigation and exam.
