The hole that was the abscess/strangles

Oh good grief. I stated what I’ve had ‘success’ with … I did not diagnose nor did I give any ‘treatment’ plan. However, it does seem that there are a whole lot of others who are telling the OP just what to do – does that not count for ‘treatment’ or 'attempting to treat on an open forum"?

I backed up what I said can be used for complementary (meaning, GLS, ADDITIVE to traditional medicine) … with clinical studies reports from reputable sources. yes, I CAN read – obviously there are some who cannot read or choose not to read with comprehension but instead spin to their own liking.

As for sprouts “causing salmonella” … sprouts don’t cause salmonella; there are always chances of fresh foods being contaminated with salmonella – all fresh foods, including our own – but none that cause salmonella. Salmonella is derived from human and animal feces. There’s always a chance of contamination of some sort of toxicity with any food - processed or fresh. There’s no getting around that. Sprouts are loaded with vitamins that are beneficial for health. Horses eat ‘sprouts’ all the time! That’s what they do when they’re grazing … they’re eatin’ sprouts along with the mature grasses. Goodness, isn’t that interesting. :rolleyes:

and re: Silicea for abscesses – you might do some research on that and you’ll find that “Silicea” is a great homeopathic remedy for ACUTE situations. Acute is looked at a bit differently than chronic, constitutional or miasmic prescribing. If you’d like, I’d be happy to back that up with references from very well-known homeopaths for you. The Law of Similum still applies here.

[QUOTE=caballus;5005978]
You’re not a stupid man – you know exactly what I am saying and exactly where to find out info if you truly wanted to.[/QUOTE]

Like where you got your info about disinfecting wood?

Sorry OP I couldn’t help it it was so priceless.

On topic: My mare had a horrible giant abscess and bloody knees for a week from strangles. She was quite the sight let me tell you. I just kept the hole clean with a warm water compress which was recommended by the vet (that saw her in person and took a culture to be sure) and it eventually healed up.

[QUOTE=chaltagor;5006637]
Like where you got your info about disinfecting wood?[/QUOTE] yeah, well I guess we all make mistakes now and then, don’t we. I guess that means we need to check what everyone says all the time to make sure everyone’s ‘right’. I was going to mention clorox and water sprays for disinfecting but then I read Rcloissone note figuring all those years of ‘disinfecting’ was for naught - and as I said, she usually knows what she’s talking about so took it for face value. “My bad.” Won’t do it again.

Ugh, strangles is a horrible sickness. --I was on a ranch where it went through many of the horses in a 65 horse herd. Many long nights, I still remember the smell when the vet lanced some of the abcesses around the neck…and the buckets of puss as they drained. Yuck. Yuck. Yuck!
Only one had a complication- purpura- and she survived- much to her tough pony attitude, and long nights of hosing and handwalking to keep the swelling of the body at bay.

I hope to never see another horse with strangles.

But I assure you, your horse will heal and all will be well again. Many of the horses took a long time to get their stamina back. It sounds like your vet has given you sound advice, and you have some great suggestions here too. Best wishes for a speady recovery for your new Haffie! I would bet he is a fighter too, and will heal wonderfully and this will be behind you soon.

Thanks for the support. The vet was out last night and lanced the 2nd abscess. the packing came out during the night so he bled really badly during the night - I have to admit I got a little woozy seeing that much blood. This wound from the drained abscess is swollen shut - not a cavity like the one that drained on it’s own which was under his jaw, the 2nd one was on the side, back under his ear). It’s much harder to clean…I actually can’t bring myself to “get in” the hole. My husband did, but gag…not me.

I need to look up purpura. It’s been mentioned a couple of times…I probably need to know about that, huh? God, I don’t want yet another complication. (I should stop whining, I’m not the one with a hole in the side of my head, huh?

Again, I appreciate the advice and support. I don’t like the bickering, but I guess it’s unavoidable. I do hope this thread is useful to others too when they get to the “meat”…there’s good advice here!

Go ahead and whine away. It’s frustrating, exhausting and an enormous emotional (and financial) drain having a horse going through a series of seemingly never ending serious health issues. Last time I went through something like that I swore by the end of it I wouldn’t be one bit sad to see a meteor hit the barn. :wink: Or me. :winkgrin:

Would a drain set into this second one be a help? I know it can be gross when first dealing with certain things, but you’ll be amazed at how over time these things stop being even remotely gag worthy.

Kinda sad to admit that, but you do become “eh, whatever” about it over time.

Best of luck and if you need to whine, go right ahead and whine.

It’s a long, long time since I personally looked after horses with strangles. For obvious reasons I don’t want to do it again and I don’t ever go looking for it or go anywhere near where it’s been.

The horse I was last asked to attend and help with was one of those situations that REALLY does get me VERY VERY angry. That turned out to have Purpura haemorrhagica as a consequence of strangles. Just 10 weeks before the owner had told me that “I was going a bit overboard suggesting a 3 week quarantine for a new horse coming in”.

However I have attended a couple of fabulous conferences on the subject matter and also was privileged to be consulted and in turn communicated with when there was the newly developed blood test for diagnosis and when there was a campaign over here to promote awareness and better practice re management. That must have been about 3 years ago now and at the time I posted on COTH to let folks know about it and as follows:

[I]I don’t know if you’re aware but in the UK we have no strangles vaccine.

The vaccine you use over there can’t be licenced here because it fails our more stringent standards of efficacy.

Hence we had a vaccine that was developed here and was in use for just 2 years but then had to be withdrawn when it dropped its efficacy (though still above the standard of the US vaccine).

Since then there’s been research by the Animal Health Trust into the disease and in particular to develop and test a fully effective vaccine against Strangles.

As a consequential result they’ve developed a new diagnostic blood test. This is a total breakthrough as it not only identifies horses that have the disease but also those who have recently been exposed to it and hence it enables it to be much better managed.

For those who want to know more, you might be interested in some these and in a campaign with which I’ve been involved :

http://www.aht.org.uk/bact_blood.html
http://www.strangles.org/[/I]

Nursing care is best for those with a strong stomach. When I last had to look after horses with strangles it wasn’t good. I well remember the stench and pus that made me gag! Then the constant cleaning and washing - not just of the horse where pus and snot was dribbling down but also floors and stabling and me and my clothes.

Virkon is your friend.

But, as with any serious illness or injury you’ve just to steal yourself to do what’s right and for the best. Good nursing care is never ever easy and particularly when you’ve having to take bio-security measures.

Virkon is your friend.

I don’t know if the OP has a single horse or is at a yard but if so, then the vital thing after the acute need to nurse and manage affected horses is to contain the disease and to do your utmost to eradicate it as quickly as possible.

Virkon is your friend.

I tend to be VERY aware, VERY well informed and reasonably knowledgeable on things relating to bio-security, clean nursing and immunity. Having had leukaemia and a bone marrow transplant and long periods of being neutropenic, immuno-surpressed or immuno-compromised does give some advantages and huge motivation to get it right! :wink:

From time to time I “lock down” because of strangles in the locality.

Much more seriously than strangles though I had strict and similar measures in place here and for nearly 2 years because of foot and mouth disease and everyone on the farm had to take particular precaution.

Here they also designated “clean farriers” and “dirty vets” . That meant that some farriers NEVER went on to farms where there were cattle and sheep and hence if if you were clear and surrounded by it, you could get them to come to your horses to keep the risk down - its what I did. Likewise designated “dirty vets” worked with stock where there were outbreaks or where there were contiguous culls and they NEVER went anywhere near an unaffected farm.

Its a nightmare to manage - time consuming and costly but totally essential in such circumstances. You can’t be too careful.

I went through thousands of gallons of disenfectant - wheel washes, foot washes, hand washes etc etc etc. Countless surgical paper overalls and rubber gloves.

Fortunately I wasn’t affected, though the county was absolutely rife. Indeed only 7 farms in the area got away with not having all cattle and sheep culled.

I NEVER want to go through that experience again though! So I err on the side of caution when it comes to such things.

I’d suggest that the OP needs to ensure that the pus is drained and the drainage is kept free. If that means getting the vet out to open up then do it. But hot pad compresses are very helpful. Remember also if the horse is still snotty from the nose that needs cleaning up with disposables and destroying too.

When you go to the horse make sure you’re clean. The advice is to wash all clothing after you’ve been to a horse with strangles. I’d suggest that it’s even better if you buy yourselves some disposable boiler suits and put them on and then just burn them afterwards. Rubber gloves that are disposable are also essential. Make sure that anything that has the puss and muck on is burnt. Spread out disposable paper on work surfaces or floor and put pads and such on that or else directly into bin bags. I’d suggest if you find nursing the horse too stomach churning that you do the cleaning and disposal that’s required because of the pus and stuff.

If there’s other horses then ideal is to have a dedicated person do it. Or else, if that’s not practical, then do the affected one last and after you’ve attended all other horses. Make sure the affected one is situated at the end so you’ve not going past it and to others. Once you’ve seen to it, go get washed and changed and clothes laundered before going near a horse again - including before going back to that one.

Remember Virkon is your friend. :winkgrin:

p.s. you might be best advised that it’s preferable to concentrate on developing a strong stomach and getting those abscesses drained and pus cleaned out and cleaned up rather than reading and finding out about Purpura haemorrhagica

p.p.s…

Packed that up now… trying to pare back in readiness for retirement.

1 Like

Thanks again Misty for the support :). I may just let loose with the complaints when it’s all said and done.

Thomas, I appreciate your in-depth responses. We are fortunately past the snotty nose phase and coughing (it seemed to last forever). This horse developed pneumonia but that was treated quickly and knocked down quickly, but then the 2nd abscess showed up. That one is lanced, but not as easy to access for cleaning because it’s swollen. My husband has to pry it open to clean inside. The vet thinks the swelling will go down - we are lavaging with a tube device because of that, but there is no tube place there for drainage.

Thomas, I’m really superstitious…so much so I’ll have a hard time elaborating…but yes, we have 4 other horses. The others were vaccinated and are presently on the clean side of the farm. I hope you understand my fear of jinxing prevents me from elaborating :), I have been extremely vigilant and only touch and handle them through the back gate in the morning after a shower and fresh clothes. I don’t handle them at all once I’ve gone to the “dirty” part of the barn. My daughter helps them out the rest of the day if needed. They are sadly fat and confused at their sudden lack of my normal attention and no work! The no work has me starting to get depressed :(…I miss riding horribly.

Also, Thomas is there still currently no vaccine in the UK? My vet was talking to me about how he lances about 4 or 5 abscesses a WEEK in our area…only because we live in amongst Amish and many chose to not vaccinate. He says he’s never had to open an abscess on a vaccinated horse - this horse I have has never been vaccinated - I just got him when he presented. I know the vaccine is still controversial here because there are those who believe that there’s no point since it’s not 100% effective. But from what I’ve heard from others, that often the disease isn’t as prolonged or serious when they are vaccinated.

Off to read about purpura. I’m literally afraid to read about it…

OMG…I just read a little snapshot article on thehorse.com about Purpura haemorrhagica. Wow. That sounds even worse than strangles. I know what I’ll be laying awake at night worrying about for the next couple of weeks now!

hundredacres like i said if you cant get near it or not burst yet then go ge some kayoilin poultice its yellow and its made for places you cant bandaged
olden days up to today its still used for strangles as its a hot sticky poultice that you wash off when dried and it wil draw the abcess to a head

and they nearly always burst soon after you use it, and you can use it on an open wound asit drys and you wash it off with warm water all the gunk and yuk comes away with it then clean the area again so all pu and yak gone then re apply

i have dealt with a few cases of strangles over the years

I told you not to read about it!

[QUOTE=hundredacres;5006984]
That one is lanced, but not as easy to access for cleaning because it’s swollen. My husband has to pry it open to clean inside. The vet thinks the swelling will go down - we are lavaging with a tube device because of that, but there is no tube place there for drainage.[/QUOTE] If it’s difficult to keep open with warm pads and tube washing then you may need to ask your vet to surgically open it again.

Thomas, I’m really superstitious…so much so I’ll have a hard time elaborating…but yes, we have 4 other horses.
I absolutely understand that. I NEVER posted at all about bio security when we were surrounded by foot and mouth. I also felt slightly like I was tempting fate when I posted earlier that it was a long long time since I’d personally tangled with strangles.

Also, Thomas is there still currently no vaccine in the UK?
No. As I said earlier our licencing requires a much higher standard of efficacy than the US vaccine provides.

You’ll be aware that though your vaccine provides a measure of protection that it’s limited. Hence a lot of vaccinated horses do still get strangles.

We had a totally different vaccine over here which did pass our more stringent test requirements but after just over 2 years it was withdrawn from market after its antigen level was found to have dropped marginally below the standard set by the European Medicines Agency (EMA). Antigens stimulate the production of the antibodies needed to fight the bacteria that causes strangles. Note that when it was withdrawn it was marginally better than the US vaccine but that doesn’t meet the EMA standard at all.

My vet was talking to me about how he lances about 4 or 5 abscesses a WEEK in our area…only because we live in amongst Amish and many chose to not vaccinate.
Here we’ve no choice but to manage with good quarantine and bio security practices.

He says he’s never had to open an abscess on a vaccinated horse- this horse I have has never been vaccinated - I just got him when he presented. I know the vaccine is still controversial here because there are those who believe that there’s no point since it’s not 100% effective. But from what I’ve heard from others, that often the disease isn’t as prolonged or serious when they are vaccinated.
He’s just been lucky then.

Hopefully though if this is a new one your quarantine has been effective.

It certainly sounds like you’ve got things covered in that area.

Good luck.

The other problem with any strangles vaccine is that it has the possibility of inciting purpura in a horse which already has a significant titer…

[QUOTE=hundredacres;5006984]

He says he’s never had to open an abscess on a vaccinated horse - this horse I have has never been vaccinated - I just got him when he presented. I know the vaccine is still controversial here because there are those who believe that there’s no point since it’s not 100% effective. But from what I’ve heard from others, that often the disease isn’t as prolonged or serious when they are vaccinated.

.[/QUOTE]

Just to let you know – I had the distinct pleasure (not) of going through a strangles quarantine at the boarding farm where my horse was kept. No horses were separated, response came too late, it was a ludicrous situation (horse is not there anymore).

My horse is relatively well traveled and from what I have read, this seems to contribute sometimes to better immunity, as he did not suffer anything more than 1/2 day of fever. However, I watched many other horses go through the very nasty abscesses. And these WERE vaccinated horses. Per my vet, the company that makes the vaccine won’t even release efficacy numbers because they are so bad. So that’s why I don’t pay for it – I’ve watched it blatantly fail firsthand.

On the plus side – every horse that abscessed, even multiple times, healed up perfectly and suffered no lasting effects, even giant disgusting dangly holes in skin. It sounds like you have a good handle on care and I am sure your guy will heal well, just be patient.

Just can’t resist: Caballus, very lovely links you posted with info backing up Vitamin C, Milk Thistle, etc., however…surely you did notice they were human studies…not equine. So, where’s your study in equines?

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;5007247]
The other problem with any strangles vaccine is that it has the possibility of inciting purpura in a horse which already has a significant titer…[/QUOTE] Well I never knew that.

No reason why I should mind you saying as we’ve no vaccine here.

Ghazzu, Why is that ?

[QUOTE=Thomas_1;5007236]

Here we’ve no choice but to manage with good quarantine and bio security practices. [/QUOTE]

My barn stopped using the strangles vaccination because of the low effectiveness rate and complications that can arise. It’s a big place – 125+ horses, so they’ve instituted a much stricter quarantine for horses coming in.

No experience with strangles, hundredacres, but I’ve had horses with horrendous wounds heal up just fine.

Best of luck and hang in there. It takes time.

                                        [quote]     He says he's never had to open an abscess on a vaccinated horse-  this horse I have has never been vaccinated - I *just* got him when he  presented. I know the vaccine is still controversial here because there  are those who believe that there's no point since it's not 100%  effective. But from what I've heard from others, that often the disease  isn't as prolonged or serious when they are vaccinated. 

He’s just been lucky then.
[/quote]

====

I have to agree.
I’ve treated more than one strangles case in a vaccinated animal.

Hmmm. Very interesting - and frightening about the connection to the vaccine and the purpura. I will absolutely think long and hard about it before I re-vaccinate knowing what some of you have experienced with vaccinated horses…I don’t EVER want to see this again. BTW, the other horses in my barn are 30, 18, 14 and 11. They’ve all come from sketchy, or Amish (uhem) backgrounds…at the risk of jinxing them I’ll leave it at that ;).

I’ve got a call in to my vet because I let him out in a grass lot today and he got really rambunctious (which was a joy to see since he’s been sick since he came here!). He rubbed the wound on the short, mowed grass and rubbed all of the hair off around it and now the area is hard again. It was soft just an hour before. The wound looks really clean and I can get a syringe in there (I’m getting used to it!) to lavage but it doesn’t seem like much goes in before it starts squirting out again - maybe 15cc goes in and then it backs up. My vet has been very supportive of my many calls but I’m worried I’ll stat driving him nuts - I guess as long as bills are paid that would be unlikely ;). Still, I have so many questions! This is why I appreciate the replies from your experiences. It’s hard to believe these ugly holes will heal, or that this will ever end! All of this bio-hazard routine seems like the way it is now…what will I do when I can just treat him like a normal horse and not rush inside to change clothes after dealing with him?

I guess I’d never mentioned that this horse is here to be my 11 year old daughters Pony Club mount. The sad thing is she’s petted(?) him a few times the day he got here and then I suspected something was awry I told her, hands off until we were sure. She hasn’t touched him since July 3rd :(.

[QUOTE=goeslikestink;5007208]
hundredacres like i said if you cant get near it or not burst yet then go ge some kayoilin poultice its yellow and its made for places you cant bandaged
olden days up to today its still used for strangles as its a hot sticky poultice that you wash off when dried and it wil draw the abcess to a head

and they nearly always burst soon after you use it, and you can use it on an open wound asit drys and you wash it off with warm water all the gunk and yuk comes away with it then clean the area again so all pu and yak gone then re apply

i have dealt with a few cases of strangles over the years[/QUOTE]

Thanks stink…there’s no more ick (well, there’s fleshy, bloody ick but no more ripening, pus-filled abscess) - the vet removed the contents on Wednesday night. Now I’m dealing with the treatment of the post-surgery wound.

Here are a couple pictures from yesterday (they’re sort of gross, but educational). It wasn’t cleaned as well at this point because I’d just been working on getting the blood off of his face (did I mention the packing came out the night of the surgery and he bled all over and gave me a heart attack?). It looks bigger, but brighter/cleaner red today:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/tracerace/July2010308.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/tracerace/July2010294.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/tracerace/July2010298.jpg

And one of his “good side” for good measure:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/tracerace/July2010301.jpg