The horse that rears and flips over backwards...

[shakeytails]

I’ll ride one that’s a little “light” in front, as long as it has a go forward button. IMO, that’s just a bit of tenseness and/or frustration. I will not ride a horse known to rear straight up and certainly not a flipper. I have no use for a horse with no sense of self preservation.

In some cases what people call a flipper, though, can be the fault of the rider- especially with a curb bit. I have seen more than a few instances when a not so skilled rider has not pushed their hands forward when the horse has gotten “sticky” and essentially pulled the horse over on top of themselves.

[runNjump86]

I’ve known two horses that were confirmed flippers. Thankfully I never sat on nor witnessed the flips. One rider will never be the same and required major surgery to fix a leg. One was incredibly lucky and was able to bail both times before horse went completely over.

Both horses ended up in the ground.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@vxf111

For all the money the owners threw at finding an answer (and they did, New Bolton, full workup, the works) no one ever found an answer. Retiring her to a non-riding career was the right thing to do.

I’m not sure I think that retiring her to a non-riding career was the right thing to do. You can’t control what is done with a horse once it’s sold. I’d have either euthanized the mare or ensured via will that in the event of the owner’s death, the horse would be euthanized.

IMO, better that than risk another rider’s health or life.

[luvmyhackney]

@shakeytails

I’ll ride one that’s a little “light” in front, as long as it has a go forward button. IMO, that’s just a bit of tenseness and/or frustration. I will not ride a horse known to rear straight up and certainly not a flipper. I have no use for a horse with no sense of self preservation.

In some cases what people call a flipper, though, can be the fault of the rider- especially with a curb bit. I have seen more than a few instances when a not so skilled rider has not pushed their hands forward when the horse has gotten “sticky” and essentially pulled the horse over on top of themselves.

I don’t mind riding light in the front, I’ve driven plenty of hackney ponies that rear in the warm up ring and you just untangle and go. I will not ride or drive one that I’ve known has flipped over. Once they know they can, they always revert to it when its something they don’t want to do. Can take years, but I still don’t want to be on them or behind them.

[vxf111]

@Where'sMyWhite

I’m not sure I think that retiring her to a non-riding career was the right thing to do. You can’t control what is done with a horse once it’s sold. I’d have either euthanized the mare or ensured via will that in the event of the owner’s death, the horse would be euthanized.

IMO, better that than risk another rider’s health or life.

I didn’t say they sold her. They didn’t. The owners kept her. The same people who had her from day one. They just stopped having anyone ride her. She wasn’t sold. Just retired. they just continued paying her bills, continued boarding her, and stopped having her be in training. She was very important to these people, once they bought her they were going to keep her until the day she died. Not just because she had won a lot (she had) but because they really cared for her. It’s why they retired her at the top of her game before she went down the ranks. It’s why they never sold her throughout her racing career. They retired her from riding but they kept her.

[RoughOut]

I used to work at a barn that was AQHA show barn but also they were the “cowboys” that the dressage barns would send naughty horses to.

we had one that came in that was a rearer. Cute, giant, hano, gelding with tons of potential. He was fine wtc but asking the least amount of lateral work he would throw a fit and it would lead to rearing. Owners and dressage trainer vetted, chiro etc . He was going in side reins and draw reins as he was a run away too.

Head trainer gets on him (looking more than goofy in a western saddle) they are going for a bit doing some trot poles everything is fine. She starts asking for more of a bend on some circles he starts getting light on the front end. She is using the same cues not escalating get him to the center of the ring where there were no trail obstacles set up, asks a little harder, he goes up, she pulls his head around, steps off and let’s him flip.

He stood up bewildered, but okay. And never reared after that. It did not fix his unwillingness to work but he was scared enough that he didn’t think rearing was an option. Not an ideal fix but no one else could help him.

he went on to a low level dressage career perhaps not up to his potential but was suitable and way more safe.

[HeyJealousy]

When I galloped racehorses I was flipped on twice. Both situations happened on the pavement on the way to the racetrack so I was quite lucky to never be hurt. One was a filly who was going with the pony and the pony rider snatched her in the mouth and she went up and over; the other was a colt who had his mind on “other things” and went up and over as we waited for an opening in the gap to get on the track. I truly believe they both went up quickly and lost their balance, not that it was a learned behavior or a lack of self-preservation, and neither one ever did it again with me.

That said, if I had one who did it more than once I wouldn’t deal with it anymore. I’m not in my early 20’s anymore and I’m not willing to try to fix the problem. One who does it repeatedly is not thinking straight and putting itself in danger just to get rid of you…I don’t want the job of trying to fix that.

[netg]

There’s a difference between a horse who has accidentally flipped and one who tries to. A friend had a mare flip on her early in her training - and it scared the mare who hasn’t reared since. It was a loss of balance, not an attempt to go up. I think that reaction to it is a big tell in a horse. An uphill moving and built horse can get light in front without meaning to do that, and if they do accidentally go over one worth continuing with will do its best to avoid that in the future.

[Xanthoria]

I had a horse flip on me because he didn’t want to step down of the asphalt in the parking lot onto the beach, and unbeknownst to me, there was a concrete wheel stop behind his back feet so he couldn’t walk backwards, while I was urging him forwards. Up he went, I landed on my feet, took 2 big steps backwards and horse landed at my feet.

Checked him out, got back on, went for a gallop on the beach and he never did it again or even suggested it - he’s retired now and in his 20, and I rode and competed him his whole career.

I think any horse will rear if they’re boxed in enough. That doesn’t mean they’ll keep doing it though - mine must have scared himself. And a repeat rearer is not a horse I’m interested in having anything to do with. This one seems to have it down pat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy-FejiptSA

[Mondo]

I had an OTTB a few years back that didn’t know much but seemed pretty willing under saddle. Then one day I was riding him and he was doing just great - forward and light to the aids. We came around the short end of the arena it trot. I asked for left lead canter and he stopped and went vertical, just like that. NO warning, nothing. I grabbed some mane for balance and tried to take enough rein to turn his head, but he was flipping his head from side to side, so I let go of the reins entirely. After what seemed way too long he came back down. All I wanted to do was get off. Didn’t pick up the reins, put my leg on, nothing and before I could so much as get my feet out of the irons he was up again. Absolutely straight up and flailing those front legs and whipping his head side to side. I decided it was past time to bail, so I did. What I didn’t count on was that I would land between him and the wall. I hit my head on the wall, got a broken rib and some other injuries. Glad I was wearing a helmet since I received a pretty bad concussion regardless. If he had gone all the way over, I’d be dead. (Did I mention he was 17.1 and beefy for a TB?)

I had a very good trainer friend of mine ride him for a month. He never could get the horse to repeat the behavior under saddle. But then one day, he was working him in long lines. It had all gone well, I was watching and feeling pretty good about things. Then, no warning again, the horse is trotting along, trainer has made no changes in what he’s doing with the reins, nothing. Horse just slams on the brakes, goes straight up and this time he does flip all the way over. My trainer friend felt just awful but it wasn’t his fault. We got him untangled from the gear, on his feet again and put him away. We didn’t even have time to discuss whether I should try to continue with him or not before he was colicking severely.

Had the vet out, got that taken care of, but he said it was definitely a stress colic.There was nothing else wrong with the horse. No teeth issues, no other physical problems, just a switch in his brain that when flipped, sent him up.

I’m too old for that sh**. Never again.

[candyappy]

@SuckerForHorses

Me either, but if there were only 2 choices in the world, I’d rather be on a bucker.

Well if you put it that way… Except I have NEVER been one to stay on a bucking horse. Crow hopping- yes, anything else and I am no longer riding…

[Wayside]

I used to have one. In his case it was a combination of HYPP and a serious lack of self preservation. If you asked him to stand still under saddle (and I do mean asked, gently, not face clamping) when he was upset, he’d get kind of twitchy, and then go straight up in the air, a couple of times to the point of going over. Amazing that I wasn’t seriously injured.

While I couldn’t fix his perverse pea-brained disinterest in his own safety, I did learn to manage his HYPP and read his tells so I could prevent a train wreck before it happened. Thankfully before he went up, he’d do this weird jerky leg-flinging paw maneuver, and that was a crystal clear sign that you should kick on and get that horse moving NOW. And once he was walking, he was fine.

Pulled him out of lessons and showing completely, but he was actually compulsively single-minded about going down the trail. Come hell or high water, he’d make his way down a trail, as long as you could keep him moving while he was under saddle. So that’s what we did.

Though when I went with a local riding club sometimes, they’d always get peeved at me for refusing to pose for photos. They just saw him as the horse who never seemed to spook or balk at anything on the trail, and then they assumed he was “easy” and I was “so lucky to have such a nice horse”. Couldn’t understand why I would never cave to their pleas of “Oh just make him stand, you can do it, he’s so good!” Ha. No way. I value my life more than that. We’ll be walking a loop around the campground while the rest of you take group photos, and we’ll pick you up when you’re ready to head out, TYVM.

[MyssMyst]

I was flipped on a few years ago. I thought the horse (still very green) felt a little stuck up front, but he’d never ever put a foot wrong with me before. Something startled him while I was trying to push him forward and up he went. That moment you KNOW you’re going over backwards is the worst feeling in the world. It’s hard to explain that almost weightless feeling when you hit the point of no return, and my only thought the whole way down was, “Well fuck, I’m dead.” I’d somehow managed to twist my upper body out of the way when I threw my arms around his neck as we went up, and had gotten partway through an emergency dismount. My legs took the brunt of the impact. I was totally black and purple from knees to sternum for a very long time, still have a giant hole in the muscles in my left thigh from where the saddle pommel hit. I have no idea how I didn’t break anything. I remember laying there once the horse got up, and he looked so dazed and confused and freaked out. He was shaking like a leaf.
In hindsight? I had warning, but I just didn’t see it for what it was on this horse. I assumed because he’d never put a foot wrong I was reading the warning wrong. On my horse? I knew he’d go up, so I listened when he warned me! But the mistake of assuming a sweet horse wouldn’t go up? Not one I’ll ever make again. Just because they never so much as spooked before doesn’t mean something can’t happen.

[Palm_Beach]

@beowulf

Palm Beach pushes papers, not wheelbarrows… so take whatever they say with a grain of salt as it likely doesn’t come from experience…

I’m paperless, dear. And muck directly into the spreader, so wheelbarrowless as well. But not clueless, as I don’t have the problems with rearers or buckers or bolters or stoppers that others have.

[Palm_Beach]

@beowulf

Palm Beach pushes papers, not wheelbarrows… so take whatever they say with a grain of salt as it likely doesn’t come from experience…

Rearing absolutely is a big deal - a way worse deal than bucking - and no amount of competence can fix a flipper.

I’m paperless, dear. And muck directly into the spreader, so wheelbarrowless as well. But not clueless, as I don’t have problems with rearers or buckers or bolters or flippers.

But obviously I’m not as experienced as you, who clearly feels that flippers can’t be fixed and has no idea how to go about getting that kind of horse on the right track. Guess I just keep getting lucky with the horsies that have these bad tricks that go away after a bit of work.

[beowulf]

@Palm Beach

I’m paperless, dear. And muck directly into the spreader, so wheelbarrowless as well. But not clueless, as I don’t have problems with rearers or buckers or bolters or flippers.

But obviously I’m not as experienced as you, who clearly feels that flippers can’t be fixed and has no idea how to go about getting that kind of horse on the right track. Guess I just keep getting lucky with the horsies that have these bad tricks that go away after a bit of work.

yes, must be very challenging telling your Breyers to stay well behaved.

flippers should not be “Fixed”. that is the consensus on this thread and you are the one voice to the contrary. they lack basic self-preservation and will always have that switch, waiting. it is extremely irresponsible to encourage anyone, be it on a BB forum or IRL, to continue to ride a known flipper. this is a very different horse than the horse that rears and just happens to lose his balance, though I argue the point that rearing horses should probably not have their issues addressed by a rider who is not deeply experienced with fixing the problem.

you seem to be missing the point that there is a tremendous difference between a horse that rears but remains upright and a horse that actually, deliberately throws itself kettle up to dislodge its rider.

[Sandysmom]

Palm Beach, if you think confirmed flippers can be easily fixed, I hope you have good health insurance and money put aside for long term care. A good funeral plan wouldn’t hurt either.

[Glyphica]

@beowulf

yes, must be very challenging telling your Breyers to stay well behaved.

flippers should not be “Fixed”. that is the consensus on this thread and you are the one voice to the contrary. they lack basic self-preservation and will always have that switch, waiting. it is extremely irresponsible to encourage anyone, be it on a BB forum or IRL, to continue to ride a known flipper. this is a very different horse than the horse that rears and just happens to lose his balance, though I argue the point that rearing horses should probably not have their issues addressed by a rider who is not deeply experienced with fixing the problem.

you seem to be missing the point that there is a tremendous difference between a horse that rears but remains upright and a horse that actually, deliberately throws itself kettle up to dislodge its rider.

Totally agree with the bolded line. Maybe my horse could have been “fixed,” but I certainly wasn’t willing to bet my life, or the life of a different trainer to find out. At the end of the day, the world is filled with millions of horses. Why ride a dangerous psycho?

[Palm_Beach]

@beowulf

you seem to be missing the point that there is a tremendous difference between a horse that rears but remains upright and a horse that actually, deliberately throws itself kettle up to dislodge its rider.

No, there is no difference at all. Probably why you can’t seem to fix the problem - you don’t understand what the problem is. Nor do several others.

[Sandysmom]

So almighty One, tell us poor benighted souls just what the problem is, since it seems the rest of us have the common sense to realize just how dangerous these horses are and to stay away from them.

As my daddy always said too many good ones to waste your time one a bad one…