Me too, although I keep watching it. I was disappointed. The only character I like is Jimmy.
I was really excited to watch this show, so I’m hoping it gets better 
So far, the focus is 100% on interpersonal (manufactured?) drama. Zero information on the horses, training, or breeding. Coming from another discipline (H/J), with zero knowledge of most “western” disciplines, I was excited to watch this series and learn something new.
All they are doing is repeating … over and over and over … their “story lines” for the different trainers. WE GET IT!!!
To the point that I don’t think they even mentioned the name or age of a single horse that is participating.
This series had the potential to be something really cool. But I see it going the way of most empty, scripted reality TV shows. Which is such a bummer.
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One thing I noticed in this show was a horse that had such a set head, as in must have been in a forced headset rig or something. IDK, but it never moved its head or neck, like it was frozen into place. I know each discipline is diferent, but I guess I have an aversion to that. I have to be really careful what I say to my reining neighbor since her horses have running plates and get almost no turn out, to each his own. Her horses are gorgeous and happy so it’s none of my business a, obviously.
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Your bolded comment shows such a lack of understanding of training that you can’t think of any way to get a horse to drop it’s head without a “forced headset rig.” That you can’t see a horse that is traveling in a balanced manner off the hind end. Tell me, when you say whoa from a hand gallop, does your horse immediately tuck his hind end underneath him and hold the ground with his hind feet and come to a halt?
Right, don’t even know what you could use or why you would want to “set”? a reining horse’s head any one way?
When I first started race colts in the SW, everyone was tying their heads over to the side and letting them stand in their stall “soaking” for 20-30 minutes.
That was supposed to teach them to give?
I never saw much sense in that, never tried, so who knows.
Mine would give just fine and all it took was a few minutes TEACHING them to give to a light request and they didn’t have to get a sore neck from standing there for long time pretzeled around.
I also saw the occasional horse fight and get injured while being trussed like that and be hard to get to in the confines of a stall to release him.
There is plenty in any discipline that those from others don’t care for, so we don’t go there.
Plenty of western trainers think it is painful to watch dressage horses, in their eyes so stiff and uptight, question if anyone ever lets them just move naturally, with a happy swing to their bodies and necks.
Dressage trainers look at reiners and wonder if it hurts them to work so violently over their hind end and what keeps them from stepping on their noses and flip over!
Well, plenty of horses are now old and still competing happily in both disciplines.
It is thru sensible training, management, fitness and the right horse for that job that keeps horses sound, no matter what they do and how they do things that a less suitable, trained and fit horse would not hold up to.
I didn’t see hardly anything much in that documentary about reining itself, just showing some very one side and less than pleasant part of the personalities there as they are aiming for the top of their discipline.
Maybe they will flesh out the people and story in the next episodes and, yes, give us more about the horses themselves?
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Regarding the frozen head and neck… Bob Avila and Al Dunning both market hock hobbles for addressing carriage issues.
http://www.avilaproshop.com/catalog/hock-hobbles1
Described as follows: Hock hobbles are a training device that fasten around a horses hocks. These hobbles should only be used by experienced trainers on a horse that has a head carriage problem or who is stiff in the face from side to side. Our hock hobbles are built stronger than most and lined with real sheepskin to protect the horses legs. Sold in pairs.
What part of sensible ties a horses mouth or poll to his hocks?
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Never say never, right?
There are all kinds of chambon type gadgets out there using similar ideas.
Even TTouch uses bands around the hocks and belly.
Watched about 20 minutes of episode 1, decided it was not my cup of tea. I may give it another shot later on to see if it gets any better.
???
sigh another post bashing reining. These horses are bred for what they do and carry themselves as such. Do some trainers use hock hobbles? Yes. But most do not.
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When two BIG NAMES market them, it’s hardly a sign of a good thing.
I don’t hate reining. I’m not bashing reining. I’m a fan of reining as a sport. I’ve taken lessons from reiners back when I had QHs.
So, with that said, looking the other way or pointing fingers at Pessoas and chambons and reallllly reaching with TTouch bands (that’s PETA level stretching BTW) does not serve the sport or the good riding and good training that IS laudable. Some of y’all are acting like there are no bad apples or horrific riding and training practices in pursuit of perfection. To @Palm Beach’s point, you don’t have to truss a horse like a turkey to instill a ‘restricted headset’… you could just nag the crap out of them and deaden their tail. Stop trying to put one over on yourself, it’s not flattering or honest.
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I never said there were no bad apples in the bunch. The industry has come a long way, but there is still a long way to go. I’m not claiming we are perfect. But these horses are bred to carry themselves differently than a hunter/jumper, dressage horse, etc.
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I thought your question was hyperbole?
I had already explained that I have not used any kinds of gadgets, never needed to, not what people do as part of the horsemanship tools we used, if you are somehow meaning to accuse me of such?
We had running martingales as standard issue.
We longed with side reins, or reins attached so they acted as such.
We were taught how draw reins work, were given warnings about how you may end up with worse problems if you use them and why.
No one ever used them but once a BNT did on an especially resistant mare, for five minutes, showing us what it did, how it worked and then how we could do the same without them just with regular, basic skills we already had.
By the way, I have been around reiners now a good 15 years and have not seen any such at all.
There may be some using those, but I doubt that many do that and if they do, well, as with any tool, it is how you use them that makes their use sensible or not.
I still can’t figure what anyone would want to accomplish with such arrangement when riding any horse, no matter the discipline?
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It was not hyperbole, and this may be a shock, but I’m not addressing you alone and what you did or didn’t do with your horses. It’s not about you.
Bob and Al market these things. That means there’s a market, and they are happy to slap their name on it.
There is no sensible way to tether a horse’s mouth to their hocks. “I use it to soften up a tough old bridle horse” - I mean, what the?
I mean, what did Craig Johnson mean in his statement regarding his retirement?
Million dollar reining trainer, 14 times world champion, two times NRHA futurity champion and one of the most respected people in the reining sport, with an international reputation, Craig Johnson has posted to his Facebook Page on May 29[SUP]th,[/SUP] 2017 a confession regarding the reining horse sport. Craig writes – “I was asked the other day at an NRHA event by one of the other million dollar riders if I had retired. Umm.”
Craig responds: [INDENT][I]“Maybe it’s because I’m no longer willing to do the things I use to, and things I’ve seen, in order to make a horse do what it takes.”
“Maybe I’m not interested until I find a better way. Maybe I’m home experimenting with a better way. Maybe I think we should take longer, wait on horses, and create something that is broke, sound, and happy for years.”
“Maybe I’m not as selfish as I use to be. Maybe I’ve decided it’s more about the horse and what it wants to be rather than what I need it to be.”
“No I haven’t retired, I have evolved.”[/I][/INDENT]
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What does what one fellow has to say, that he is on his own path with horses, has to do with any of this?
Each one of us has our own way and ways and learn as we go and keep learning.
I don’t see anything sinister in what he was saying?
Only if you want to read more than is said, for your own enlightenment, you can add things he didn’t say, didn’t mean.
Plenty of people have said same, they have evolved, is what life is all about.
“Maybe it’s because I’m no longer willing to do the things I use to, and things I’ve seen, in order to make a horse do what it takes.”
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Right, he has better skills and maybe ethics, growing into the trainer he maybe was not before, no matter how much he won.
That is life, every place, as a parent, as an employer, as employee, as a trainer also.
Practically every older trainer can tell you they wish they knew what they know now.
Growing up in a centuries long horsemanship European tradition was one advantage, your instructors had been there or already told so much you then didn’t have to learn on your own.
Western riding doesn’t really has that tradition, is fairly recent in it’s disciplines and training for those, there is less education to learn from tradition.
That is changing by leaps and bounds, the Information Age a great step in that.
Maybe he too tied horse’s heads sharply around and left them like that to teach what he maybe now understand was not making sense as he thought, but could/would cause harm.
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And several big name dressage trainers use Rolker. It is dangerous to paint an entire discipline based on what you saw on two trainers websites. Have you been to an NRHA show? Ridden a Reiner? Talked to anyone that does? I assure you some people use hock hobbles. As a previous poster stated, most do not. Hock hobbles are used in other disciplines such as WP, hunter, driving, saddleseat, just to name a few. Do I agree with them, nope. But they are not widely used either.
Reiners are breed to move the way they do. If you notice, they are moving from behind with their shoulders up. Most will not have the uphill carriage of a dressage horse because of how they are bred. They are trained to carry themselves and maintain that carriage. The riding is done through the riders seat and legs. It is amazing to ride that’s finely tuned of a horse!
Please remember that ALL disciplines have issues as well as good, bad and ugly. Please dig deeper than a gimmick on a trainers website before you paint a whole discipline as a problem.
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Settle down. No one is holding one discipline or another out as perfect. People who can’t figure it out use gadgets or needles or nag. In every discipline. Some of us don’t. OK?
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