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The mental health of horse people (or lack of)

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#1

Ok. I will admit this sounds a bit as an attack. Well, it was intended to sound that way to hopefully gain attention as well as spark a dialogue.

As the majority know, I have just recieved my Master’s in Counseling. This by NO MEANS qualifies me to say what I will say, nor, conversely does it disqulify me. I mention it to properly disclose who I am so that nobody can attack me from a manipulative perspective (you can see I have been on this bb for a while )

This is how I see it. You can agree, disagree or not participate. I do want a good discussion, one without trolls and one without personal attacks. These are my only two rules. If people fail to comply, I will lock the thread.

It has struck me that the majority of equestrians are rather dysfunctional as a whole. I realize that the word is one that is thrown around a lot, so let me place it in a working definition for this discussion: Dysfunction is when people either lack healthy emotional skills, refuse to obey other people’s boundaries, do not have boundaries of their own, and who shut other people out of their lives simply because they do not agree completely with other people’s philosphies.

Granted, this is the definition I am using for the sake of this thread, but if anyone adds to it, fine by me…just keep it obvious so that others can follow.

Based on this definition, I have good reason to believe that our equestrian world is full of dysfunction and I would like to know what others in this industry think. I would make a bet (virtual of course!) that per capita, this industry contains more people with personality disorders than most other hobbies/businesses. I do not know this for a fact…it is merely specualation derived from 23 years being involved with horse people.

I also want to know why the majority of us just accept “that’s the way it is” because we are too afraid to fight the ridiculous personalities that try to control some parts of this industry.

Believe it or not, there is no person I am thinking of in particular as I write this!

My background is hunter/jumper and therefore that is my reason for placing it in this forum. If this needs to be moved, please do so, Erin et al!

Alright, please play nice but please also be forth-comming. Your honesty will be more helpful!

On deck…GO!

#2

Copied over from H/J… for some reason it didn’t work on the first try. Hopefully we won’t end up with two copies!

Please carry on!

[This message was edited by Erin on May. 18, 2001 at 12:31 PM.]

#3

Missed out renting BIS last night, can’t wait to see it next weekend!!
A friend is in it, they filmed it up in Vancouver and he would talk to me on his cell all the time from the set and his drive to and from.
I have to agree, the dog show and breeding world IMHO is far worse.
Helps me see the horse world in a more humourous light that is for certain.
I am waiting for Chevy Chase or someone to make a Horse Show spoof like BIS!!!

#4

I must say I was struck, and a little dismayed, at how the posts in this thread seem to use “mental health problems,” “neurotic,” “dysfunctional,” “wacky,” and “eccentric” as interchangable…especially when this is done by mental health professionals. One person’s quirky is another’s mentally ill, and I think it is a little dangerous to throw around terms like that cavalierly without defining them appropriately.

Many people have noted that there seem to be as many “odd ducks” in other parts of society as there are in the horse world. I agree with those who noted that within the horse world, it often seems like it’s the trainers who are the weirdest, or the most removed from reality. This, I think, is not necessarily due to the fact that they are inherently more “dysfunctional” but that they exist in a very closely circumscribed world where they have a lot of power and make all the rules. This environment may encourage some individuals–especially those who are not highly educated in the “outside world”–to ignore appropriate boundaries or otherwise act in ways that many would consider dysfunctional, because there is very little negative effect when they do…

just my armchair psychology…

#5

Ooooh, nutmeg, you are clearly onto something.

I’d agree that the BB moderators owes it to the world at large to maintain our balanced sanity by indulging our need to talk about, who was it, Jim Jeffords? Was he in the Beverly Hillbillies, BTW?

#6

Boy did you get the self-centeredness right! I do think that is what most people who are driven in the sport do to reach their goals. You can only spend so much on energy on “X” if you are going to be the best so “Y and Z” fall to the wayside. When focused on such a single goal you feel you must wear blinders. I think it happens for all people, but when I’ve seen people in other countries they don’t seem to be quite as obsessive as Americans. Maybe it’s part of our makeup over here where we feel to be the best you have to sacrifice everything else…and maybe it isn’t true. A lot of the European riders at the top seem to have a lot of other things in their lives…like relationships. Whereas most Americans just drive themselves towards the one goal and destroy everyone and everything else that gets in their way. (Generalization, I know, but it does seem to be a shoe that fits fairly well.)

You grow up the day you have your first real laugh–at yourself. (Ethel Barrymore)

#7

Ole Siggy had a lot of good stuff to say, but he also had this little cocaine problem, and didn’t ever understand women…

My favorite thing he said was in the first book he ever wrote, I think its called “A Project for a Scientific Psychology”.(C’mon its been 20 years since I read it) It was written while he was still a student of neurology, around the turn of the last century. The whole book’s premise is that all the psychological/social theories were good working models, but that eventually, we would find out that biology determines more of our feelings and behavior and the psychosocial stuff would have less importance. He said we just didn’t have the technology at that time to be able to figure it out. With all the work today on genetics and neurochemistry, he is being proven right.

For the record, I was a biochemist first, and although I trained with several analysts, am not a freudian. Call me a “fusion” psychiatrist.

#8

Sometimes I’m of the Monty Python school of psychiatry. When faced with horrible problems, if you can “Run away Run away”.

Riding and the horse world are important parts of my life, but they are not all of life.

If your patient wants to leave a barn, of course there will be sorrow, lost relationships. Many people don’t deal well with partings and need to denigrate the person leaving or the place being left, in order to separate. This happened to me, when I left the barn of a dear friend because her ring was flooding and there was no place to school for several months. Altho I was clear it was only that reason,(the care was excellent and the people were not hard to deal with, but I had a show season to get ready for) she accused me of being a rat leaving a sinking ship and basically chased me out of the barn on my last day. I had to separate that stress related behavior from the person I liked, and we eventually renewed our friendship. She came to “forgive” me for leaving. I shrug. The friendship is worth more.

So have your patient understand that some folks may be difficult, but for her to be clear and simple about the reasons for leaving, to remain calm herself, and to give it time for the relationships to sort out. She may find herself repeating herself about her reasons. In fact it helps to write out a little speech to give when someone asks, or when someone gets off track and accuses her of other reasons. The “broken record” technique. The speech can contain one or two non-emotional reasons for leaving, and also several good things about the place being left:

ex. 1:
“I really want to work with X trainer at Z barn. I like it here- the people are great and the barn is always so clean, but I need to do this for my own progress right now. I hope we can stay in touch!”

ex. 2:
“I know my horse needs some special care and I really can’t expect Owner A to do this for me. I’m moving to a place where Owner B is set up for my horse’s needs. I’m really going to miss the folks here, though”

You know, in life we are lucky to have a few good friends. The rest are pleasant aquaintances who come and go.

If your patient had friends at her last barn, she will make new ones at the next place.

The most important job of a counsellor is the instillation of hope. Most folks can take it from there if you can only help them keep going.

I was tremendously validated last night at a dinner with my parents. My father, who has been chronically physically ill all his life, defended me against a man who stated bluntly: “Counselling is such B*llshit. Its just talktalktalk”. Dad spoke with great candour about how if it hadn’t been for his psychiatrist, he would not have made it through several tough years. Somehow he regained the hope that there were still worthwhile things in life and that he was still a contributing member, no matter how crippled or dependant on others he became.

Dr.Horsefeathersdroppingtearsinhercoffee

Now I’m going riding. The horses have had enough time to digest their morning grain. Cheerio!

#9

Ok. I will admit this sounds a bit as an attack. Well, it was intended to sound that way to hopefully gain attention as well as spark a dialogue.

As the majority know, I have just recieved my Master’s in Counseling. This by NO MEANS qualifies me to say what I will say, nor, conversely does it disqulify me. I mention it to properly disclose who I am so that nobody can attack me from a manipulative perspective (you can see I have been on this bb for a while )

This is how I see it. You can agree, disagree or not participate. I do want a good discussion, one without trolls and one without personal attacks. These are my only two rules. If people fail to comply, I will lock the thread.

It has struck me that the majority of equestrians are rather dysfunctional as a whole. I realize that the word is one that is thrown around a lot, so let me place it in a working definition for this discussion: Dysfunction is when people either lack healthy emotional skills, refuse to obey other people’s boundaries, do not have boundaries of their own, and who shut other people out of their lives simply because they do not agree completely with other people’s philosphies.

Granted, this is the definition I am using for the sake of this thread, but if anyone adds to it, fine by me…just keep it obvious so that others can follow.

Based on this definition, I have good reason to believe that our equestrian world is full of dysfunction and I would like to know what others in this industry think. I would make a bet (virtual of course!) that per capita, this industry contains more people with personality disorders than most other hobbies/businesses. I do not know this for a fact…it is merely specualation derived from 23 years being involved with horse people.

I also want to know why the majority of us just accept “that’s the way it is” because we are too afraid to fight the ridiculous personalities that try to control some parts of this industry.

Believe it or not, there is no person I am thinking of in particular as I write this!

My background is hunter/jumper and therefore that is my reason for placing it in this forum. If this needs to be moved, please do so, Erin et al!

Alright, please play nice but please also be forth-comming. Your honesty will be more helpful!

On deck…GO!

#10

The more involved one becomes in the horse world, the more disenfranchised one gets from the ‘real’ world.

Most of the pros in the industry have no real education to speak of, many of the sport’s highly-touted participants are troubled (and wealthy), the sport, independent of the people who populate it, is deemed as that of kings, we tend to anthropomorphize our horses and thus they soon become our surrogate children, friends, partners – why is anyone surprised that many in the sport aren’t able to achieve a balance between what is, essentially, a ‘hobby’, and what constitutes a ‘real life’?

I’d query, though, pacificsolo, whether the definition of sound mental health really compares apples to apples or apples to oranges. How many of us know avid golfers, hockey players, hell, business people, who’ve similarly excluded from their lives that which doesn’t satisfy their passions or ambitions?

Perhaps the only conclusion is that we’re all kinda wacky.

#11

I dunno, Tosca…Although, I have to admit, it was the parents, not the kids, that scared me from football and cheerleading! I was so relieved when my kids decided not to continue with those two activities, at least for now. I haven’t seen any TV Movies about equestrians killing or injuring others to get on a team…

I guess I was thinking of the participants at the very highest level of some of the other intense sports, like figure skating and gymnastics, etc.

Hmmmmm…It would be interesting to see a study done, but I still believe that many sports (and other activities) include participants who are just as we are. They’re just not as lucky as we are, because their activity does not include horses.

#12

Bumping this up, to make sure it doesn’t get lost over here!

#13

I am involved with other sports intensely! My father owns an invitation-only basketball camp where a huge number of the stars you see today were scouted out from. I know these people can be dysfunctional…but NOT on the level as equestrians!

I particpated for years in theatre/music and as eccentric as many are, none can compare to the horse folk I know and know of!

Lucien…I understand that some horses do not like to be outside, but mine (actually, all of the horses I have owned!) hates the stall! And, I don’t much blame him. But, I see what you mean. I guess the woman’s need for them to be “safe” is what got me…she didn’t care that one chestnut dug a hole in his stall every night

Anyway, my opinion still stands that people in our horse world tend to be more dysfunctional as a whole compared to other “worlds” out there…again, just an observation that some will agree, and some will disagree with

#14

I have given this subject a lot of thought over the past few years. I’ve ridden western all my life, attending a lot of rather big shows and always rode with good trainers throughout the country. Not too many of them (or the customers, for that matter) were dysfunctional in any way. Normal as dirt. When I took up jumping several years ago, I was appalled at the difference. I have found that the customers seem pretty darn normal, it’s the trainers that need heavy counseling, in my opinion. You know why customers turn crazy? It’s because they have to DEAL with H/J trainers that generally have a loose screw or two!!!

#15

He’s the very cool senator from Vermont who is so disgusted by our C-student of a president that he is leaving the Republican party (which for a native Vermonter is tantamount to treason) and becoming an independent, thus denying the Bush administration a majority in the Senate! This changes the whole ball game! This is HUGE! Much like a Morgan’s butt, to keep it horse related.

#16

Velvet

I have to agree with you. The dysfunctional American horsepeople do tend to put everything else by the way side to be able to accomplish their goals. My immediate thought is… what is that goal, and what price is being paid to near it. Example: the many people I know in the horseworld that are “submerged” in this political manure are not on their way to the Grand Prix ring. Many are simply trying to pin in the next class or get their greenie through the in gate of the next class. I can respect that these are personal goals for these people, however, is it necessary for these people to give up all else for a mere hobby? When we come right down to it, it is a hobby for anyone who is not generating an income from horses. I think the majority of horsepeople are not olympic hopefuls, yet still dysfunctional and one dimentional. Maybe there would be less corruption if people could really put it into perspective. What do you think?

#17

After I got myself together from hysterically laughing!! Great topic!

OK playing by the rules:

Dysfunction is when people either lack healthy emotional skills, refuse to obey other people’s boundaries, do not have boundaries of their own, and who shut other people out of their lives simply because they do not agree completely with other people’s philosphies.

Lack emotional skills-well that would be most people I see on the circuit in the Adult divisions at least. Example: A/O rider’s horse has lead swap on course. “Adult” leaves ring yanking like a pony kid (no offense pony riders) on said horse’s mouth while SCREAMING to trainer-HE SWAPPED and YOU HAVE TO FFFFFIIIIIXXXX IT!

Hmmm hope she never faces a real tragedy in life.

How about the trainer that leaves the rail in a huff when adult rider misses a distance-or screams WHY did you move up to nothing?? Well gosh Ms Trainer-I guess I just love spending my hard earned money to intentionally piss you off-I love making a fool of myself and having you add to it!!! I love being yelled at by another adult-please more more!!

Refuse to obey other’s boundaries: Whoa-let me aks you-if I came into YOUR home and said “OH MY how could you put that painting above that sofa-it looks perfectly AWFUL”-would you be offended?? I should think so.

However any given horseperson on any given day will gladly walk up and voice his/her opinion on the short comings of your recently purchased prospect, made horse, whatever. Amazing.

Do not have boundaries of their own-too many examples not enough time or space for this one.

Shut people out-how about hte trainer who for wahtever reason is no longer offering a prgram suitable for you. You have been at this barn your years, made friends, etc and leave as politely as possible-do ya think you will ever have diiner with these people again since you are no longer “at the barn”???

Now not all are this way but I think horse people are by far the most dysfunctional group of people I have ever met-nothing compares IMHO.

Ahh well can’t change them so may as well make a case study out of them!!

Life is too short to dance with ugly men

#18

Okay, this is just my opinion based on people that I have come into contact with in the horse world. I have found that in general the people I have met in the horse world that have the most money are the most dysfunctional. I have no idea why this may be the case, but the people I have met who really have a lot of money, are the nuttiest, and the most difficult to deal with. Many of them act like they are always owed something…that they somehow have priority because they have more money. If my observations were applied on a large scale, there are more people in the horse world with a lot of money, and therefore a larger group of dysfunctional people. Now, before anyone flames me, there are MANY people with a lot of money that are very normal. I’ve just noticed that the people I’ve met in the horse world seem to be more dysfunctional the more money they have.

#19

Heidi, I was thinking the same thing - about people who are passionate about other sports, etc. I would think they’re just as crazy as us, right?

#20

Hmmmm…well, equestrians may not kill or hurt each other to get on the team, but they sure will do a lot of bad things to their horses to get ahead!!!

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