The mental health of horse people (or lack of)

[Policy_of_Truth]

Those who said people in the mental health industry are nts are correct!

Without going into a long story, I will say in my defense that I ran from my calling for six years before begining my studies!

I love my chosen proffesion, and I am aware of the pit-falls. There are many programs that accept people in terms of their grades (GPA and other measures)but forget to actually give any testing instruments to determine whether a person is stable enough to become a counselor. There are a lot of weirdos in this proffesion, and I’m sure I’m one of them! I am somewhat stable but by no means normal!

I am wondering if anyone has noticed that horsepeople have certain “rules” that defy logic and reality. I am thinking of a particular person who owns a boarding facility that is by far the most serene place I have ever been. The catch is that with over a hundred acres of available land, 17 horses and a natural spring that collects in a pond, the owner will not allow the horses more than 6-8 hours of turnout. NOT because these are show horses (most are pets or retirees), NOT because of the lack of grazing (she has to mow quite a bit) and NOT because the horses do not get along (I call them the “get-along gang”). So, why does she insist they not be allowed turnout? Because she herself feels that they LIKE their stalls and that if they are out after dark, something really bad might happen. I asked what this bad thing might be, and she stammered and said it was something of a motherly instinct!

OK! Horses somehow manage to keep themselves alive at my friend’s barn and all over the wild west! This is her own neurosis and the poor horses are suffering for it! She even said they are like her children! NEWSFLASH! Horses are capable of taking care of themselves! She has so many horses with stocked up legs yet she refused to believe letting them outside longer might help.

Anyway, sorry for the rant…just another perspective!

[wtywmn4]

Hmmmm Bumpkin, your ideas are outstanding! I can see it now, “National Lapoons Horse Show Vacation”. Has a ring to it, don’t you think?

[Heather]

A top trainer I know once said “The problem with working in the horse business is all the damn horse people.”

But, I digress. Yes, there are difficult and/or dysfunctional people in all aspects of society. And yes, I think the definition of normal depends alot on your point of view and the “social norms” of a given time and place. That being said, I think there are a few important points to consider.

First, anybody who becomes involved with horses (or any animal activity for that matter) most likely is drawn to working with animals because they lack people skills. Either they are not comfortable with people, or flat out dislike them, and/or they failed to learn how to operate iwhtin a community when they were children. The trick is, most people don’t get to become involved with animals by moving into a deep, dark jungle with them and eschewing human contact. Most animals come with human counterparts (or at least require additional human help, like vets), and so now you have a bunch of people who got involved with animal to get away from people, now just as involved with people as ever. So, you get this community of people who can’t communicate or work with each other worth a bean.

Second, being a competitive rider at a certain level does require a certain amount selfishness and self centerdness. I think this is the case in any competitive pursuit–when a goal takes over your life, their isn’t room for much else in it. I think people who come into the perifery of a horseperson’s life soon learn thatthey are not the most important thing. So, you have a lot of necessarily self-centered people in our community of horse folk.

Finally, there are a lot of nutty people in the world. That’s the way it goes. Everybody’s got a problem, everybody’s got issues, everybody’s got a story. This ain’t the Brady Bunch.

[nutmeg]

TK, you are SO busted on the shameless hawking of real estate!

[Velvet]

But I do think you missed something…there are MANY people who may not be Olympic material, yet dream of it. Funny how often these are the people who are most maniacal about their riding, and yet they can’t achieve their dream because that intensity gets in the way. (I know how being too intense can get in the way of learning a sport–any sport.)

I think all should be able to dream, and yet I also think we should all be able to enjoy our little success along the way. Yet the American way is to be considered nothing, and everything along the way as less than nothing until the ultimate in any sport is achieved. Sad, isn’t it? The saddest part is how it spills over into all parts of a sport most of us have come to out of love for the furry four-legged, four hooved beasties. It’s too bad hindsight is 20/20, too, eh? Guess it’s always going to happen, but maybe with some more dialog like what we are experiencing out here, we’ll see more people enlightened and get back to just having fun and enjoying every step along the way. Who needs to go out showing every weekend? What exactly are you proving and to whom?

My favorite stables are those where showing is an afterthought, and riding is foremost in everyone’s mind.

Maybe our mantra should be, “Happy trails to you.” Instead of “I’m going to get there, by gosh and by golly.” (Had to make that a bit P.G. 13 out here, but I’m sure you get my drift.)

You grow up the day you have your first real laugh–at yourself. (Ethel Barrymore)

[Policy_of_Truth]

You are my hero of verbosity!

I have been trying to say exactly what you did for a few days now (didn’t post b/c I’m coughing up a lung and possibly other bodily necessities ).

I am so glad somebody understands me!

Question for Dr. Horsefeathers…I studied my first two internships under a psychiatrist. He strongly supports the Medical model, which I found very intriguing as well as helpful in working with clients. What other models do you use? I am a new graduate having recieved a Masters in counseling, and I want to get as many views as possible. Any help you can give would me would be more than appreciated. I’m eager to learn as much as possible.

I hope this topic reveals to everyone else what it has to me; We all have many experiences with horse-folk. Unfortunately, if those experiences were negative or uncomfortable, that will have an impact on our perspective. Maybe I’ve been “lucky” to have met some of the nastier people, I don’t know. I do know there are some incredibly wonderful people in our world. My best friend being one of them…but she KNOWS she’s a bit obsessed! But she respects my need for keeping the horses as a hobby, play-time and for companionship. I found that once I was able to establish my own boundaries, she began to not push me to do things I wasn’t interested in doing. I also gained an appreciation for our friendship…that we can be open and candid with each other.

I still think some things, such as TheResonator pointed out, are weird and dysfunctional. Especially the issue of leaving a barn! You’d think you had sprayed them all with gas and lit a match leaving some barns! And some earlier threads will prove this!

As for another sport, I CAN say that no matter where a player (basketball) decides to go, my dad has always supported their decision (and if he didn’t, he never made them feel unwelcome in our home/lives), and he respects a lot of other coaches VERY much…I KNOW he’s the best, though!

My point is, I guess I just see some people in this great sport as being a bit dysfunctional, and though people may disagree, “that’s my story and I’m sticking to it”! (can’t recall newsperson who said this).

[Tosca]

My mom said many times, in despair, “I have never met more bad people than in the horse world.” And Ian Millar said something like “I don’t know whether the horse world attracts such eccentrics or creates them, but there certainly is a large amount of them.”

I’ve noticed the scarily huge amount of “dysfunctional” horse people too. Going along Ian’s line of thinking, maybe it doesn’t attract the difficult and troubled people but creates them? I have found that there are more “bad” pros than there are amateurs (maybe that’s just because I’ve actually had to deal with pros but anyways…) and pros obviously have more stress since they’re making a living off of the horses and not solely enjoying them. Perhaps that line of business is so stressful and unstable and taxing that a large number of them “go bad.” And I don’t envy them for having to deal with the kind of people described above. If you’re around enough strange and/or difficult people all the time, that mentality may rub off on you.

[system]

I agree about the show off thing–I can’t help it but I like to show off to prove myself. DOn’t know why!

[DocHF]

Remember that old cartoon where there was a huge convention room full of empty seats, and only two people sitting there? The caption was “Meeting of Functional Families”.

Point being, what we used to label as rude, eccentric, self-centered, etc, we now call dysfunctional. But really, there aren’t that many healthy people out there, anywhere.

Get this: one in three people will suffer a real mental illness during their lifetime. Haven’t had yours yet? Count yourself lucky or get ready for the dive.

Do horses attract ill people? Hmmm. Most of my horse friends and people at my barn are pretty friendly, respectful, helpful and generally good to be around. Sure, I’ve met my share of sh*ts in the horse world, but I meet more of them everyday in traffic, pushing in front of lines at grocery stores, etc.

Seems the worst behavior I’ve seen is where there is added stress- at shows, or where someone’s horse is sick, or someone isn’t very in control and is scared, etc.

Now, once upon a time I took dance lessons. I really hated the people in ballet because they would smile to your face and talk about you behind your back. The incidence of the silent psycho disease, anorexia/bulimia, is about 75% in the ballet world. These are the girls who pretend its all OK when its not, and so they throw up all their anxiety.:rolleyes:

In the horse world, it seems easier to see it coming. And I agree, if you let them, the horses can be very powerful agents of healing.

[LucianCephus]

Pacificsolo…

While I definitely agree with your basic premise (oh, the tales I could tell about the neurasthenic riders I’ve known!), I had to respond to your example of the barn owner who restricts turn out.

After subjecting my horses to barns with limited turn out, I moved to North Carolina and found a stable able to provide as much pasture time as wanted. Much to my surprise, neither of my beasts will tolerate more than 5 or 6 hours outside. They will graze happily for awhile, then begin galloping and rushing the fence, demanding to be taken to their stalls (which they do, incidentally, love.) I think part of their reluctance to stay outside is due to flies, but for what ever reason, they truly do reject the notion of living outside. And I would be extremely reluctant to turn them out at night when no one would be around if they started to run. (Maybe it’s the horses who are dysfunctional??? No one would ever confuse my Thoroughbreds with self reliant mustangs, that’s for sure!)

[Duffy]

And I know just where Chevy can get his “material” from!

[Policy_of_Truth]

“First, anybody who becomes involved with horses (or any animal activity for that matter) most likely is drawn to working with animals because they lack people skills. Either they are not comfortable with people, or flat out dislike them, and/or they failed to learn how to operate iwhtin a community when they were children.”

Sorry, I have to disagree. This is obviously your experience, so I am not saying you are wrong, but I know for myself, being an animal person has not been a compensatory reaction on my part to deal with people. In fact, my love for animals has if anything enhanced my relationships and developed my relationships with people. Frankly, I rarley dislike a person upon first meeting UNLESS they are clearly not animal people. In fact, non-animal lovers frighten me.

I believe someone is getting confused with terminology, so I want to remind people of my request in begining this thread…please define the terms you choose to use. I say this so that we can at least argue in the same language!

And to be clear, people can have quirks that are dysfunctional. People can also be eccentric without being dysfunctional. This is not a matter of normality vs weird…it’s function vs. dysfunction. A lack of boundaries…either having or following them. It’s having a neurotic personality that interferes with one’s life or the lives of people who are in contact with that person.

Dr. Horsefeathers, please feel free to add on…I believe you are more experienced than I am.

[AAJumper]

Heidi, I’ve had one of those parties!!! The horse people NEVER mix! At one party there was even a near brawl over the artichoke cheese dip…horse people vs non-horse people…the horse people tried to capture the entire bowl of dip and hoard it in the dining room!

[pt1]

Well, Invisible and Velvet, you have a point - BUT

replace “horse hobby” with golf, skiing, sailing, tennis, stamp collecting, pushing one’s children to be the successes you would have liked to have been, making money, gaining power and prestige in the corporate/political/professional/social worlds.

And sorry, but I don’t agree that it is solely an American flaw.

Then again, what would you replace focus on our horse hobby with? Football? Baseball? Any form of group ball-game? NASCAR racing? Button-collecting?

Most of the people I know who are involved with horses also have families, friends, community involvement of various kinds, other interests, etc. etc.

Maybe I’m lucky to be living in the boonies, away from the lure or even the possibility of the A circuit - but I don’t see the problems you do.
Gosh, my culturally-deprived (unless you really like Travis Tritt et al.) milieu looks better than ever!

[This message was edited by Weatherford on May. 26, 2001 at 05:25 PM.]

[Bertie]

“The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four Americans is suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of your three best friends. If they’re okay, then it’s you.”

Uh oh…

[Blue_Devil]

I have found, at least with my junior peers, that many juniors ride for the theraputic benefit (although we don’t necessarily call it that!) of escaping some sort of dysfunctional behavior–albeit siblings, parents, or other troubling situations.

While some will argue this point with me I expect, horses bring some sort of stability. They don’t (normally) have extreme mood swings, they can’t be emotionally abusive, and they provide a sense of control and self-confidence. A lot of people who have problems seek this in their lives and this draws them (subconsciously) to riding I think…

Emily proud member of the junior clique!

[pinkhorse]

Wow, this gives a lot to think about.

My first response was, “This, coming from someone in a mental health field!!!” Having been/being highly involved in the mental health, medical and horse fields (on a pro and, in horses, ammy basis) I can say that mental health and medical are filled to overflowing with “dysfunctional people” - hell, it’s why most of us go into it - to “help” others (read “help” ourselves or, in another viewpoint make ourselves feel better). That said…

My second response was that I grew up in the h/j/e world. Not particularly friendly, wealthy (but not ungodly like today) show people. When I got into eventing I found very different people. (My sister, the PhD in psychology - oh, yes, we’re quite a family! Dad was a psychiatrist even! - said “I thought all horse people were crazy but this is such a nice group!”) Now, the people in my barn are all totally nuts. It’s actually making me laugh as I think about it. Of, say, 10 core people, (including 2 teenagers and our 2 teachers), at least 3, that I know of, are on antidepressants, at least half, that I know of, are in therapy (and the rest probably should be), at least 2 are the kind of people you have to tip-toe around a little each day to see what kind of mood they’re in (including me, we’re both very cyclical - it’s really nasty when we’re in the same week of the month!! Oooooh, look out! ) But, we all totally love each other. And, moreso, we totally respect each other as humans and as horsepeople.

My third thought is, our poor poor horses!! It just shows what forgiving beings they are . Horses so much appreciate consistency. Humans, in general aren’t great in terms of consistency. Crazy (more or less) humans are even worse. (And me…well, I do my best to calm down once I’m in her presence - actually, and my

Fourth point, horses totally calm me down. I’ve been aware since childhood how therapeutic riding is for me. And for others. (For a time it was going to be a dissertation) So, at least if horse people are going to be crazy we have horses to keep us honest. Of course, I’m talking about those I know. I’m aware that there are tons of people who do not allow their horses to keep them honest - who beat, maim, break or sell to their own advantage (sell, please sell).

Fifth (and final, phew) - we are a bunch of control-mongers. Who else would want to get on the back of a huge animal and make it trot in place or jump huge jumps galloping cross country or gigantic pick-up-sticks on poles in a ring for time!!

Read Jane Smiley’s article in the Sunday NYT a couple of weeks ago.

I love horses. Thank god for them. Imagine where we’d all be! Last night I dreamed that I was galloping on the beach on the pink horse. I’ve never done that. It was a wonderful feeling!

[ljo]

I’m not saying you are right or wrong.
Unless you are thoroughly involved with at least 3 other sports( like auto racing,airplane flying etc.) I don’t think you are qualified to say that we(horsemen)are more dysfunctional than and other privledged wealthy group.

[Kryswyn]

Someone actually DOUBTED that horse people are dysfunctional? You mean they didn’t KNOW they were?

What else would you call a family that 2nd mortgages a home so one child can have a horse just so that she can win ribbons and prizes with a total year end value of maybe $500?

What else would you call the trainer who INSISTS that their students only wear certain brands, have certain tack, comes only at certain times, demands total control of the horse and owner’s pocketbook?

(Hey, you there! The one who answers in defense/explanation of this trainer - you’re not wrapped too tight yourself!)

What else would you call the people who willing obey the trainer described above?

OF COURSE WE’RE ALL NUTS. WE’RE ONLY HUMAN. Our saving grace is that “Dys” aside, we’re still “functional” just a little odd, quirky, paranoid, controlling, anal-retentive, or all of the above.

The reason we’re drawn to horses is that horses, even more than dogs because dogs could survive w/o us if turned loose (not well mind you) horses are truly dependent on us. By caring for them we become centered, grounded. Their very size, majesty, vitality, calls to us in a primitive, instintive way. The routine of caring for them (horses do better on a schedule) creates a pattern in our lives. A consistancy that fosters an ability to transfer our ‘center’ to other areas of our lives.

You want to see some sane people? Go visit a dairy farm. These farmers get up everyday just to ease animals pain. EVERY DAY. NO VACATION. There is something even more elemental about getting milk from a cow. A daily miracle of watching life-giving nourishment gush forth from an animal.

Dysfunctional? You bet I am. But I can ‘mask’ it and fit in with the world. Only you, my fellow BBers, know how truly strange I can be.

~Kryswyn~
“Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo”

[jparkes]

When I was much younger than I am today, I was “bitten” by the horse bug. Couldn’t stop thinking, drawing, reading about horses. Going to the barn from sun up to sun down on the weekends and summer breaks. My life revolved around horses.
It had my parents convienced that I was not “normal.” Their little daughter had nothing to do with school (hated it), boys or anything else for that matter. I didn’t want to go on family vacations because I would miss a show or two and my favorite four-legged friends would miss me!
Yes, I even went to family counseling because of my so-called obsession.
For more than 30 years now, the horse has played a major roll in my life. They have fulfilled my dreams, lifted my spirts, and give me a reason to live this life.
Call me wacky, wierd, or even disfunctional, but I wouldn’t have it any other way. To me the disfunctional people in this world are the ones who are the brown-nosers climbing the corporate ladders!