Sometimes I think, AAJumper, that it’s not that horse folk spend too much time with horses and on the show circuit but that they’ve suffered too long with horse show food - and hence, their tendency to hoard food, and not even food, but dips. Ask me some time about the kafuffle over my crab dip. 
Nutmeg, I’ve been watching Nightline and gotta concur, that Jim Jeffords was not only great in Beverly Hillbillies, but he is, indeed, one cool dude of integrity.
Waall- judge me as you will. I make a very succesful living entirely based on my people skills. And I am completely horse-crazy. Some of us are lucky enough to have a happy obsession. When my back was broken from a fall and I was told I might never walk normally again, and would never ride again, I felt like “just give me the gun and let me shoot myself now”.
Happily, I walk pretty normally and ride not too bad. Most people who actually meet me in real life like me, and I like most people. If I didn’t have the horse “hobby”, I would rather say, “horse lifestyle”, I would probably be far less happy and less able to cope with people’s problems.
If you feel that horse people are more disordered/less people competent/etc than the general population, I feel a little sorry that is your experience. Some of the finest folks I ever met came to me on horseback. Some of the worst too. I choose to hang around with the finer ones and avoid the duds. Life is about choices. If you have bad feelings about the human race, you will probably see bad things even in good people (because they are there) and you will feel unhappy and cynical. If you choose to make the most out of all your exeriences, then even the bad ones will teach you something, and you will end up happier and hopeful.
A person’s opinions about others often say more about the person opining than they do about the others! 
This is not a great term- ask 4 doctors and get 5 answers kind of thing.
But I think it is a distinct advantage, if you are trying to help people, to have a wide knowledge of how people work- and this includes how their bodies work, what role inheritance plays, how we are affected by our nutrition, by drugs, by the weather, by other people, etc.
Medical doctors who become psychiatrists have this advantage over most other mental health professionals. Not meaning to be elitist, or snarky, but when you spend 8-12 years after your basic batchelor degree training, under supervision, with real patients, as psychiatrists do, you are bound to have more expertise and a greater understanding than someone who, after their batchelors, spent a couple more years in classrooms getting a masters and then finally spent a few years writing a book for their doctorate. I know some of these people have also had supervision and actual patient contact.(now donning the Nomex Suit!!!)But even the 2500 hours of supervised therapy demanded by most clinical psychologists’ registries cannot compare to the 15,000-20,000 hours of direct supervision experienced in the 8-12 years of medical school and residency that a psychiatrist undergoes.
Which is not to say there aren’t gifted therapists in other fields-there are. To drop a few names, I have trained with family therapists such as Virginia Satir and Carl Thom, also with the Milan group. With Milton Erickson, the hypnotist and his disciples. Spiritually with Mother Theresa and native healers. I respect all these teachers and more.
The medical model, in my mind, is an holistic one, perhaps the most holistic one, taking into account the physical, genetic, environmental, social, spiritual and intra-psychic factors that operate in each of our lives. We are not pill-pushers, although we are usually the only ones who have trained sufficiently to understand what pills can do.As a solo practitioner, I am often called upon, (and am trained) to work in an holistic way in areas of my patient’s life that would be traditionally handled by a nurse, a social worker, a priest, a behavioral psychologist, an occupational therapist, or a family doctor. I can do all competently, if need be. I prefer to work as a team member so that some of these aspects can be handled by experts in their own corners. Psychiatrists excel at triage- sorting out what can be handled by those with different training and what needs to be addressed by psychiatric resources, what can wait, and what needs to be done STAT.
The medical model recognizes a heirarchy that assesses thoroughly based on a systematic approach, sorts problems according to urgency, and treats according to available and appropriate resources. When it works well, the doctor serves as both team member and leader and must be flexible enough to relinquish leadership when the team operates at its best. The team must also be willing to share responsibility, to work under leadership at times, and at others to work independantly to contribute to the overall treatment plan.
Things break down when doctors are too authoritarian, or when their leadership is not acknowledged, or when they are forced to take responsibility for the actions of other team members without having authority over those team members, or when the team’s expertise is not recognized, etc.
It is a complex system and prone to breakdown, but when it works, there are few healing methods more powerful.
I think it is also important to look at the fact that the medical model has evolved significantly since the 1970’s. There are still some docs around who trained before then and may not have had the experience I describe above. I trained in the 1980’s, when the medical model had expanded to take advantage of the powers of groups of healers working together. Most shrinks training in North America today have the kind of holistic experience that I describe. I believe that shrinks’ image continues to suffer from being an easily identified target- we are expensive to produce and in the past there have been tragic mistakes that still haunt us. Many are jealous of our hourly wage (please put it in perspectuve- the average shrink does not start earning until their early 30’s and finishes school with $100,000 of debt- over a lifetime, in Canada, an RN will make more money total, than a psychiatrist).
We tend to be in the top 1 % of the population for IQ and in the extremes of any population you will find more variance or aberration among individuals. In my estimation, there are more pathological doctors than horse people. But because of their IQ’s they may hide it better. Or not. We still have among the highest rates of substance abuse, marital breakdown and suicide of any occupational group.
FWIW I have met more *$$holes in hospitals than in dressage rings…
I didn’t start out with problems, being heavily involved with the horse world created them. Although I do wonder whether I had some sort of mental problem to begin with, choosing such an expensive sport (kidding… I think). 
But I’d say it could go both ways- that dysfunction could be a result, or that dysfunctional people are drawn to the sport.
But wow, I just noticed this. I’ve been riding just under four years and I already know 4 or 5 highly dysfunctional horse people. In my whole life, I’ve met one person outside of the horse world that could truly be labeled that. Weird.
~Erin Lizzy
Visit my Website!
Supahstah, your opinion DOES matter! And thanks to the rest…good beginings!
Keep the dialogue comming! Understanding a problem is at the root of healing it!
This is a very interesting topic. My husband always says that he thinks that horse people are wackier than most. I tend to disagree.
Have you ever been to a Little League / Pee Wee Football / etc. game? Watch the parents. Its scary.
How about those of you who work in the Corporate world? Wacky people inhabit that neck of the woods as well - all the way from those who are constantly clawing at each other over trivial items to many of the senior executives sitting in corner offices thinking that they are the company and that everyone is there to serve them.
What about big sports? Both the coaches and the players have their, um, difficulties (Daryl Strawberry, Latrell Sprewell (sp?), Bobby Knight, Tonya Harding etc., etc., etc.).
And then, of course, many of us have dealt with the less-than-honest car dealer, real estate agent, stock broker (just to name a few).
I don’t mean this to sound as if I think all people are wacky / dishonest / dysfunctional. I just think that there are dysfunctional people in all areas of life. I don’t necessarily think that the horse world has the corner on the market!
Just my opinion.
I really don’t think horse people as a whole are more neurotic than the general population. Rather, I think humankind is a lot more neurotic than most realize. Oh, I may KNOW about all the problems my horsey friends deal with… but that’s just because we’re very open about it. I’m sure my oh-so-professional and pulled together work colleagues have SCADS of mental issues… it’s just not something you talk about.
I do think at the upper levels of the sport you may see more mental health issues than the general population. But I think that’s true in any sport at the elite level. You get a population of very driven, very competitive perfectionists, and you’ll naturally see more anxiety, eating disorders, etc.
Has anyone else noticed the presence of undiagnosed depression at the Horse Shows? I really don’t know why besides that people with too much money and not enough to do usually don’t set boundaries or rules with how they will go with drinking/parting. And maybe all that alcohal has lowered the ceratonin levels in people brains…
Marion aka Long Acre Hats Off’s GOOD LUCK CHARM (does that make me famouse?)
Since I have been out of the “horseworld” for a while, yet still keeping a distant eye on the happenings… (thus, invisible) I may have a different vew.
It frightens me to think of people living in such extremely small circles. I believe that many people get so enveloped in this make-believe world that they begin to lose sight of reality. A Grand Prix rider to an amatuer might seem god-like, yet a Grand Prix rider to a business executive is often thought of as a gay man in tights and a beanie.
My point is, people who are interested in horses should also keep one foot planted securely on the ground. It’s just too easy to get caught up in all the corruption when you get sucked in. The good old-fashioned horse traders are standing knee deep in political manure, the people most effected by them are standing right along side. Step out for a minute and grab a breath of fresh air… honest air.
pacificsolo–of course not everybody has the same expereince, and I agree completely that my exposure to animals has enhanced my overall empathy and understafing of people.
That being said, I still maintain on some level people become involed with animals because they are not comfortable with people. Obviously, the level of discomfort can be directly correlated to the amount of involment. I don’t mean involvment in terms of “spends 40 hours a week at the barn”, but involvment in the sense of “Has 100 cats and never leaves the house”, or, to take it to its extreme conclusion, “would rather AIDS wiped out most of the world’s population rather than have animal trials for vaccines”. (And please, let’s not debate the merits of various sorts of animal testing, that’s for another thread). There are a lot less severe exampled, and I was certainly one of them: I was a tomboy who never felt like I was living up to anyone’s expectations properly–not the lady and scholar my parents wanted, not the “joiner” or “partier” the school kids wanted, not the “Catholic” that the school wanted. The horse’s didn’t expect anything from me other than a decent rider and a carrot. Did I shun human contact, of course not, and the friends I made at the barn tauight me a lot about learning to get along with people, but the horses were attractive because they weren’t people.
I would also like to agree entirely about the issue of the horse world being a very small circle to travel in. Though I am still clearly a horse person, I am no longer ONLY a horse person–I work outside the horse world, and have other, non-horsey contacts. I recognize the difference when I spend time with old friends who are still only in the horse world, and discover that we have really nothing to talk about, except the horses. This strain became very obvious when I was recovering from my injury the last few years–all I was doing with horses was looking at them (and caring for them when I was able), and the covnersations became very strained indeed. My husband and I are both horse people, but we try to do non-horsey stuff a few times a month (movies, go to a play, etc)to try to “be outside of the box”.
Yowser, Dr. Horsefeathers, you’ve revealed yourself as a Freudian - we hate most in others that which we detest in ourself.
You are, otherwise, even on the Freudian paraphrase, right. I think it was the damned smartest thing the old fart ever wrote.
Dr. Horsefeathers…you have been so kind to offer me so much information. I must admit you working with Virginia Satir made my heart jump, as she and her work have had an incredible impact on me both educationally as well as personally.
I wish I had a chance like that!
I agree that many people do not comprehend the amount of time and money it takes to become a psychiatrist. If they did, they may be more appreciative/less likely to complain.
The man I studied under made me really appreciate the team aspect of becoming a counselor. I have had two other supervisors since Dr. Shive, and the second wasn’t worth her weight in nickel as a teacher/supervisor, and the third has been helpful, more-so by helping me to get over my personal fears of messing someone up, but none were comparable…what a great teacher…
I wish I had the guts and the mind to be able to go to med school for psychiatric medicine. It is facinating how much people like yourself can help clients when other therapeutic techniques aren’t cutting it.
One thing I am fearful of, is in the US, the insurance companies are trying hard to give people like ME permission to prescribe meds! I do NOT have the training, and I refuse to do such a stupid thing without the expertise! It scares me because I have heard that it has support among the Social Workers. In the US, DSS has a lot more control over laws and insurance companies than LPCs do. Has anything like this been brought up in Canada?
BTW, are you familiar with Satir’s PAIRS program?
My boyfriend and I have been through it, and we really learned a lot from the lectures and workshops. I enjoy reading any of her work.
And one last question…horse-related!
How would you handle a client who wants to leave his/her current barn, but knows that by the way things typically go in our sport, he/she will end up losing friends/making enemies? I am basing this upon previous experience plus a few threads that have dealt with this subject.
Again, thanks for listening to me and being so willing to answer my questions. It means a lot to me.
My favorite saying, which I’ve stuck on my computer monitor at work is:
Surgeon general’s warning: horses are addictive, expense, and can impair the ability to use common sense.
Based on personal experience I clearly do not think the horseworld has any market on ‘disfunctional’ individuals. In fact, the great majority of my experiences with other horse enthusiasts is positive. I will include in those positive experiences reading the posts of many of the contributors on this board, which, however, is really cyberlife rather than real life.
I also agree with Horsefeathers that there are far fewer ‘fuctional’ people anywhere aka the 1950’s tv version than most of us have been led to believe.
I don’t think the horse world is any different than any other odd assortment of people. (As Heidi pointed out, my coworkers and even members of my own family have been the “oddest ducks” I’ve EVER met!)
As a sport, I think that horses provide a recreational opportunity for the vast majority of participants. I participated in fairly high level gymnastics for 10 years and I can truly say that I found that world much more dysfunctional. Gymnastics really has no “recreational” aspect to it once you start competing. Kids are pushed incredibly hard because the time frame is so small for high level success. You would be amazed at how kids are treated by coaches, and how the parents turn a blind eye to this and other problems. I’m not saying everyone is like this, but it is a little disturbing to see the physical and mental pain and suffering a pre-teen endures for the slight chance of success later on.
I think horses contrast gymnastics and offer so many levels of enjoyment for many people, and would say that the MAJORITY of horse people are just horse-crazy, but otherwise “normal” individuals. That said, the world is a scary place and there are many unstable and dangerous people from all sports, professions and walks of life.
I think that we must seperate the types of horsepeople we are talking about when we discuss relative levels of dysfunction, and I don’t mean Western vs. Dressage vs. Eventing vs. Jumpers. I mean those who show on the circuit and those who don’t.
I think that those who do not show in any of the big circuits, or perhaps do one or two big A shows a year are perhaps more grounded.
I say this becuase in two seperate periods in my life I have either spent time only on the local circuit or only flitting in and out as a spectator, groom/helper, exhibitor at A shows.
In the local shows you tend to see more parents around, more supervision of juniors, more people who’s entire lives are not the horses, who do not spend every penny they make and moment of free time that they have with the horses. They tend to be slightly more well rounded in their approach to life (ie shows and showing are not their sole existance for a large part of the year).
At the A shows however - the money, the attitude, the sense of entitlement, the lack of junior supervision, the intense level of scrutiny, the need to keep up, the need to win, and the desire to look some ideal (whether weight, fashion, horse, whatever) seems far stronger and more prevalent.
Very few of the professionals I’ve encountered have college level educations, ever read a newspaper, or are ever surrounded by people that are not syncophants. They do work incredibly long hours, have to deal with often extremely needy rich women and children who expect them to be father/mother/therapist/coach all at once.
The competitors are not often enough the tough, tenacious hard working, understanding of the value of a dollar, thoughful, pitch in a pinch type of kids or adults. They are needy, too rich for their own good, expect to buy their way into success, too easily awed and drawn into the rockstar-partying lifestyle that is common, and that only seems to help erode their sense of self and their self esteem.
OK - before you start screaming at me - we all know and love those people that do not fit into the above stereotypes. I’ve found trainers who, although can party like a rockstar, are extremely grounded, keep their juniors in line, and can talk about and focus on a million other things than the horses.
I’ve found dear friends who show in all the big east coast shows all summer long, but we can have serious discussions about investment banking, child rearing (even though none of us have any) and a dozen other things that are in no way related to horses.
It seems to me, at the end of the day, and at the end of this long rambling post - the people who are not dysfunctional maintain a balance in their lives of friends, interests and pursuits off of the show grounds and outside the barn.
That balance is what I aim to keep - and given my extensive opinions spewed out in a wonderfully random fashion just now - when I start to lose this balance, you all are hereby appointed to slap me upside the head! 
Sarah
jp I was as horse crazy as you.
My sainted parents were very tolerant of the whole thing.
Thanks in part to them being Golf Fanatics, haha, so we all respected each others hobbies.
In 6th grade a teacher called my mother in and showed her how every page of my class work would have a small horse drawn on the corner, and saying it just was not “normal”, my dear mother told her that she loved the horse pictures, and they were more normal than if I was drawing boys all over everything,
HEE HEE!!!
Great post, Dr. Horsefeathers.
humbly curtseying (eek-spelling) glad I could be of assistance
The true purpose of the law degree-verbosity. Thank goodness I learned something while I was there.
Besides I REALLY get a kick out of this post!
Life is too short to dance with ugly men
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