Bump…just found a Quarter Horse on the Main page…again…I believe all of our members and associates would be interested in this issue of reinstatement. From the USEF convention thread…it appears the Board is SILENT on this issue and the petition.
Snowbird, no one is disputing the fact that horse businesses can write off losses. The point was that the average horse owner does not operate as a business. The only one making this part of the debate case-specific is you.
illiterarcy.
Please explain I don’t understand that word.
I know it’s a long thread, sarabeck, but several of your items have been asked/answered/addressed more than a few times.
Originally posted by anthem35:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by HHG-N:
I am confused. Is the fact that he is “sorry” supposed to erase the fact that he is guilty???
NO! Not at all…hes is absolutely guilty as charged.
I will not ever dispute that, or condone the crime.
I just really wish that people would consider that this man made a huge mistake, and that he is SORRY for it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
anthem, I am absolutely willing to consider that Mr. Valliere may indeed be very sorry for what happened. His contrition or lack thereof really isn’t the issue FOR ME here.
What matters is indeed that icky word, principle. I feel that it is inappropriate in principle for the governing body of our sport to allow someone who has committed the crimes we AGREE that he committed to be allowed to enjoy the privileged of membership. That’s all there is to it.
Does that mean I don’t “forgive?” If forgiveness needs to include allowing him - AND ALL OF THE OTHERS SO CONVICTED - to be USEF members, then I guess I don’t.
But see, I don’t think that the crime SHOULD be forgiven by the governing body devoted to protecting our equine partners. The crime is of sufficient seriousness to warrant the AHSA/USEF to revoke the right of membership…forever.
By doing what he did, Paul Valliere has made himself a very public figure about whom to debate the appropriateness of extending membership. And the bottom line is, many of us don’t think that membership should be given to someone who has shown such profound disregard and disrespect for our equine partners, regardless of what he does in the future.
This doesn’t mean the he can’t serve as a great example of how to make a horrible choice and yet salvage a life of dignity. But, perhaps because of the choice of words he and Mason Phelps and other supporters have used, perhaps because of the perceived (note: I say perceived) arrogance of his living up to the letter but not spirit of the suspension, that doesn’t seem to be happening.
It’s interesting…I spent last night at an AA meeting. A friend of ours who screwed up big time (no personal injuries but only through luck - he did do significant jail time) was celebrating his 2 year anniversary of sobriety and wanted us to be there because we had supported him.
He spoke, at length, about what it was like to be a drunk, and the challenges of being sober. He did not paint himself as someone to be admired - quite the contrary, he used his own life to illustrate how someone can live a lie, and how hard it can be to even try to change. He apologized, but more than that, he acknowledged his errors - then, and now as he tries to find a life that’s real, and not dulled by substances. He acknowledged our support, but also acknowledged that we call him on his actions, and require his accountability. We never pretended to be OK with his behavior, and he knew it - in fact, he admits hiding much of it from us to “keep” our support.
In his acceptance of his own responsibility, he gained a dignity and a worth that he never had with booze. And he doesn’t just do this in the confines of AA - he speaks to all sorts of groups about his path, with brutal honesty. And in doing that, he gains forgiveness - from himself most of all.
I wish Mr. Valliere had done something more on this line. Instead, he has made comments that people unfamiliar with him find at best arrogant. That’s not a good approach for someone who truly wants to acknowledge a mistake. Imagine the response if he’d simply said “I’m not going to apply for reinstatement despite being eligible by the terms of the suspension, because what I did was wrong.” Powerful, no?
Originally posted by Serah:
I’m glad that all of you are so quick cry “witch” at me, when i am honestly telling you I TRIED EVERYTHING to get this case brought to attention.
I am sure you did what you could, however was there proof? Other than your word against someone elses? Tangible proof, photos, tape recordings anything like that? If not, and if the insurance amount was not a great deal of money the liklihood of the insurance company delving into it further is slim to none. However I don’t know that it means none of them cared or believed you, but they knew they had nothing to go forward on. That is unfortunatly a very harsh reality. Good for you for trying, I know it is hard to stomach but I do have to nelieve that some day these people will get thiers.
Well, Harry, you’d be wrong about that.
I also think that since the petition is not widely known outside of this BB, it’s not drawing from the entire membership. It’s not like it was sent out with the latest edition of Equestrian.
I also think one’s decision to sign or not sign an on line petition would not necessarily refect their opinion on the matter.
Huh?
I think Fairview that we could both be right
Yes. They crave attention though, and ANY attention is what they are looking for.
JM&J… why were these people so desperate for money?
Ahem. On topic. Civil.
Are you people capable of this or not?
What about this situation, the USEF is a private organization. In truth, they are upholding the suspensions that were in place by the AHSA. A suspension was indefinite, with ability to apply for reinstatement this year. There is nothing that says reinstatement must be granted.
Originally posted by Snowbird:
Dear little pup I cannot imagine how you can claim any comprehension and not understand that it is a worse evil to drug a helpless horse who had no choice and who is the athlete than it is to take drugs as a passenger on one of these wondrous animals.If truly the rider was the athlete then any of those great riders could take any of my common horses and win.
All we are asking for is a little common respect for a horse who perhaps embarrassed an expert by not being as good as expected. He didn’t need the money, his owner didn’t need the money the horse could have been given away for nothing and no one would have had any real problem and maybe some junior would have had a wonderful Equitation horse for free.
to begin with, loose the disparaging “little pup”…it makes you look small.
the rider is the athlete according to the USOC/and medicating of horses takes place at every horse show every week…anyone involved in the show business knows that.
as for the rest of what you say about the horses killed, I agree with you. I just think everyone deserves a shot at a second chance.
so please be polite, civil and respectful.
Incredible, Letter Man! Welcome back! 
that was not how I interpreted her posts.
Janie… re read it the post… “current” well being… could care less about the ones executed…??? 
And according to these posts and what War Admiral has said your don’t have any idea that PV has in fact reapplied you just are assuming he will.
Although it may not seem I know how to direct myself through the on-line community I actually am able to do so all on my own.
I have to share this quote I just read in a story about Randy “Duke” Cunningham, the former CA congressman who was just sentenced to 8 years in prison for accepting $2.4 million in cash and gifts as bribes, and in return offered contracts and other favors.
Judge Burns told Cunningham: “You weren’t wet. You weren’t cold. You weren’t hungry and yet you did these things. I think what you’ve done is you’ve undermined the opportunity that honest politicians have to do a good job.”
In reading that comment, I was immediately struck by the similarity to the individuals suspended by the USEF. I seriously doubt any of them were starving or hurting for money, and that makes their choices all the more selfish. Beyond the greed and horror, however, their actions had a profound and lasting impact----they made it so much more difficult for honest trainers and horsepeople to be trusted.
Their crimes go far beyond the unspeakable horror suffered by the animals. Their actions affect honest, law abiding professionals and amateurs even years after the fact, and will continue to do so. What a shame, and it’s another reason the USEF needs to draw the line. We need to speak up and say our sport will hold itself by a higher standard. We need to do this not only for the sake of the animals, but also for all those who want to be able to do the right thing without having to carry the corruption of others on their shoulders.
I can think of other words besides “moron”. But, I’d like to be able to continue to play on COTH BB…
I never thought I had an ‘agenda’…I just felt this thread is being 'run one-sided.
So Dude, you felt you had to footnote my post because the thread was one-sided in nature. My reply was to clue you in to the fact that there is a distinct possibility a thread with the title “The No Reinstatement” thread just might be one-sided. If you are looking for something neutral, try a more neutral topic. I care not if you disagree with me, nor am I impressed with the fact that you bite, froth at the mouth, or possibly have pin worms. If you want to tear apart logical statements, have at it.
I suspect the vast majority do not have plans to go to Wellington; and PV rarely seems to go anywhere else that I’ve heard.
