I agree N&B&T, and I am one of the guilty ones.
Originally posted by JuniorJumper01:
Murderers and rapists are allowed back into the community after they serve their time.
This is true, however in many of those target specific crimes like child abuse, molestation etc the one convicted of the crime is prohibited from being around children. Using the same logic why would it be any different to prohibit a person convicted of killing a horse to be allowed back in a horse organization? Also many of these people come out of jail and go into a supervised probation/parole where they are expected to follow the terms of their probation/parole, any violation of these terms gets them back in jail. Violation does not mean they commit another crime, in many cases it means that they are not even to be in the company of certain people.
As I see it, PV has not reoffended by committing another crime, but it does seem that his actions in the interim have violated the terms of his suspension. That does not seem like someone who has truly accepted responsibility and been rehabilitated.
Thanks Duffy! My email confirmation says I am #800 woo hoo!
I’ll put that on the web site when I get it up and running.
To their credit, most people seem to be e-mailing me when they have probs. We get it sorted out eventually.
so is your support of PV on this thread due to your only concern with the welfare of horses of the future as a representative of the Horse Welfare Committee? and not your own view points which would be caring about horses of the past?
I have already said I’m not representing the horse welfare committee. I always state my own viewpoint. My support here is of Paul’s right to apply for reinstatement, and of the FACTS of the case. I oppose vigilantism and speculation. I care for horses of the past, present, and future, personally. When operating as a member of the committee, I focus on current conditions and how they can improve the welfare of horses now and in the future. There is nothing a committee can do, of which I am aware, to help a dead horse.
And if he becomes reinstated? Would it then become a horse welfare issue?
Sure. Then my work as a committee member will be for the benefit of both his horses and yours. Presuming of course that you are also a USHJA member. There are no distinctions between members in good standing.
Gotcha.
Originally posted by Snowbird:
You need a fundraising reason for people to buy. There’s no legal fund so the only thing would be to donate to a horse charity. Maybe a scholarship for a young rider.
To my mind, the fundraising reason for people to buy would be to contribute toward the purchase of advertisements in opposition to reinstatement. 
However, that gets into 501©(3)s and charitable LLCs and all kinds of crap I really can’t deal with right now. Is anyone better placed to volunteer to start setting up same??
Let’s face it: This is going to be an ongoing battle, because each of these people becomes eligible for reinstatement at a separate time. So this could (I hate to break it to you) go on for years. 
BUT repeat after me: We’ve done it before, we can do it again!!!
Forgive me I am really late to this thread, but I was under the impression that the people convicted were permanantly suspended from ant and all AHSA or what ever its called now, shows! Where do I sign ??? 
speculation - even of the urban legend variety - is not productive…
big dawg (et al)
Are you yourself a Palm Beach county resident? If so, I would be happy to put you in touch with the reporter I mentioned earlier in the thread, as you obviously have an enduring interest in this issue. 
Of course, if you are just the kind of person who likes to make anonymous, obnoxious, and vitriolic statements on a bulletin board, you will not be willing to present your views publically, under your real name.
Obscure, sniggering remarks are for schoolchildren.
Serah - To answer your questions, I refer you back to the terms of the various individuals’ USEF suspensions, to be found here.
USEF assigned different suspension terms to each individual, and left the question of reinstatement OPEN, to be addressed on an individual basis as and when each individual becomes eligible to reapply. The next individual who will be eligible is Mr. Valliere, in March 2006.
While the USEF’s approach to deciding on suspension terms was beyond a doubt the most fair to all concerned, one unfortunate side effect is that the reinstatement/no reinstatement argument is going to keep broiling for years, as each person in turn becomes eligible to reapply.
Rest assured that the merchandise does NOT mention any individual names, and is designed to be re-useable as each individual convicted of insurance fraud/horse killing becomes eligible to apply for reinstatement.
As Harry has stated, we are very much out in the open about what we’re trying to do. It’s no secret that the opposing side is attempting to do exactly the same thing, and has been doing so for some time.
Hope that answers some of your questions.
Agred, Lynda!
agtrd People who lie, cheat and steal and abuse the very animal that their business is based on and the people who own them.
MENSA just called…They’ve been perusing this thread and you’ve all been removed from the A List 
.
I think that I’ll have nightmares tonight knowing that people sitting on supposed “animal welfare” boards appear to not particularily care or be unduly affected by the deliberate and cruel act of killing a horse. Yikes.
The best thing to do is continue to let VH4 spew. It is typical round and round conversation that one employs when they really have no leg to stand on.
Most people have tried to be logical and look at the issue with some objectivity, how it is that this person can speak so knowingly of PVs situation?
- the reason he hasn’t tried to apply is because even though he is allowed to be reinstated, believe it or not he HAS decided to not reapply as he does not want to do that kind of stuff anymore nor does he want to deal with the politics. benefits of knowing him: asking him stuff. still convinced that knowing him is not beneficial ise?
Yeah if your in a situation that has the potential to damage your ego- give him a call and ask him for a solution.
he employs other trainers that train these horse at the shows etc. he IS believe it or not allowed to run a facility and train the horses in it privately.
You do realise that your just admitted he trains the horses privately then hires other trainers to take them to the shows- like next door to him. It would make some sense I suppose if he had trainers that worked with him and they went to certain shows that he was unable to attend due to other commitments, but that is not the case when it is across the fence from you. He preps these horses, gives the instruction and post ride critique- but can not set foot on the grounds on show days- that is not how the suspension was intended and his employees are in violation of the rules.
You say he has no desire to be a part of the horseshows again due to the hordes of people following him to hang on his every word, yet he is there on non showing days. Why? If he has no clients to assist is he just soaking up the ambiance?
Your unable to present an intelligent argument because you refuse to accept the facts on both sides of the issue, instead relying on emotion and your wealth of ‘insider’ knowledge.
Most wanna be groupies are like that, do they realise that they just make it worse for the very position they are tying to promote.
You are very, very good for the No reinstatment position. Thank you for your support, however unententional.
Somehow, Snowbird, I shall never see your name without knowing that little piece of information.
It will only be bad publicity for the sport if they are actually reinstated. It will be good publicity if it is shown that instead of us all being spoiled, elitist, rich brats with no morals, we DO have people that care about doing what is right, and making sure our environment STAYS family friendly.
Fuzzy Logic, notice that Sherry is not speaking of any particular person, but just a general situation in which records would be requested. Which is why I left the post alone.
So howzabout you leave the moderating to me, eh?
“Nothing beats a trial, but a failure”…as you say one should stand up for what he/she believes in…sadly this industry has gone the way of “who’s who”. Not too many have their own opinions anymore, they feel more comfortable in knowing someone else has already approved the decision they are about to make. I hope there are a boat load of brass knockers out there who are willing to decide this issue based on simple elements of right and wrong, regardless of who is “supposting” whom!
Originally posted by wanna_be:
no offense- i really am playing the devils advocate here- but lets say best case scenario you have a couple thousand people from COTH etc sign your no reinstatement petition- do you really think that this will have any negative impact at all when put up against the thousands of much more important signatures/support for reinstatement from trainers, riders OLYMPIANS etc? i just think that while a nice idea, if 100,000 BBers signed a petition and 100 succesful GP riders supported him, well he will be welcomed onto any showgrounds. And for the most part, all of todays showjumping “heroes” DO support him, and have remained friendly with him, and have bought horses for themselves/ clients from him, and admire the way he has stayed in this business and continued to teach younger riders how to in turn become successful in the GP ranks.
I am not saying don’t do this, because I believe you should always stand up for what you think is right, I am just saying Look who you are up against- it may be futile.
Originally posted by ponybreeder Aefvue Pig Farm:
Oh, and I should have added. My family believes in retirement. Earlier, I listed a group of retirees that I have now, I also had my show horses, Talisman, Academy Award, and 20th Century, Ltd (bought him back at the end of his career) until they died.
My family also believes in retirement. My 20 year old is retired after I showed him for 2 years. He was 12 when retired. Was diagnosed with EPM…was not put down…was treated for 6 months and has happily enjoyed his retirement.
We bought back my medium pony at 20 after she went to Chicago (in the 70’s), 2 more homes and foundered…presently trying to buy back another…
Because I support someone doesn’t make me a bad person…
