All except the suck-butts. You should know that.
Haha, don’t worry about it Harry, I’ve had fun playing with Big Dawg too!
Oh yes, I’m sure they would, I’m just taking the “I’m lazy and not thoroughly awake yet” approach! 
I posted a court synop of BW, the USEF is referred to as the former AHSA. The USEF did stand against BW. I would think they would take a stance against PV otherwise they would need to reverse the BW case. In the BW case GL was noted as a previous case for the denial of BW. If PV goes in BW could sue, then GL…
If I were a conspiracy maven, I might just think big dawg, having seen how getting down and dirty got the other PV thread yanked, might just be trying to see if that could be accomplished here.
If so, it needs better bait… 
I think Vandy that many of us who are mission driven find it hard to understand those who may agree with their position but just can’t take a public stand. I respect your feelings and we are all different that way.
I’ve never been a fence sitter, politically correct or afraid to take a solid stand based on principles. That to me is what’s important. While I’m a people person I have never taken a stand against a person but either what they have done or not done or caused to be done.
For me it is the crime and not who did the crime that matters.
Awwww…shucks…thanks to all who gave me feedback, and I appreciate the suggestion that I send it to the Chronicle. I may do so, but before I do I would like to edit what I said because I’d rather address the status of anyone convicted of horse killings rather than just PV. I think of this as a larger issue rather than one involving just one individual and I’d rather make sure that point is clear.
—hiddenlake
Snowbird, my ten “No Reinstatement” bands arrived today. Love 'em.
I second what harry said… 
Is it possible to continue this thread with what we need to do next, as far as procedures, letters, and whatever other steps that may help keep “them” from being reinstated? There’s so much information,thought, and energy that has been put into this thread, it seems a shame for someone like me, who was rather unaware, to miss it. I feel it is important and like seeing it on the first page. But maybe that’s just me. 
You know, 2hs, maybe he will…
But as I wrote in an earlier post, we all know that the written word is too easily misinterpreted.
If your career/life-as-you-know-it depended on it, you would made make damned sure that your every contact with the opposition was properly represented, and thereby, understood.
But altogether a good idea!
Originally posted by Silk:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by anthem35:
Each time, upon hearing the I train with Paul, the response was the same.
“Good Man, Great trainer. We will be happy to see him back at the ring”.
.
That still does not make it OK in the eyes of his non-supporters. Doesn’t matter which BNJ/BNT/BNR thinks he is really neat and cool – it doesnt change the facts.
It does, however increase my understanding and dislike even more for that whole end of the horse world. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
My reason for relating these experiences is this…
There are many well respected individuals who are very active in the USEF horse show community who are by far the most well informed of the story, and who, by knowing all the facts, are welcoming him back.
As you and we all know, its to ‘each his own’.
They are on the other PV thread.
http://chronicleforums.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/7076024331/m/333202818/p/38
Originally posted by harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens:
What about this situation, the USEF is a private organization. In truth, they are upholding the suspensions that were in place by the AHSA. A suspension was indefinite, with ability to apply for reinstatement this year. There is nothing that says reinstatement must be granted.
What’s your point? There is also nothing against reinstatement, so I don’t know what, exactly, you’re trying to refute/prove.
The suspension was definate in its length of time, so again, I’m somewhat confused. The only thing that is somewhat subjective is as to whether or not Paul has shown what the AHSA deemed to be a reformation.
It peeves me that those of you who have not met Paul nor know of what he does when the media isn’t all over him can come on here, also unidentified, and say that he hasn’t done anything for the benefit of the horse community. Consider that when you wonder why he’s afraid to talk to the public…
It says he arranged for the horse to be hit with a sledge hammer.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>then only based upon affirmative proof of total rehabilitation, including proof that he has taken steps to reform himself and has performed community service to benefit the welfare of horses
This part is a little disturbing because the decision can be very subjective. I think someone convicted of Insurance Fraud and this huge abuse to horses should be banned for life as well.
I say “Jatomic Streaker” deserves to be remembered and respected. If we don’t learn the same mistakes will keep happening. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
…But therein lies the rub, Snowy - it doesn’t QUITE say that; it only says “there was evidence that [he] arranged…”. As far as I can find out, Hugi was the only witness; Hugi stated he saw the horse killed & then falsified the vet records; but then, Hugi had already perjured himself SO many times that he might not be considered the most reliable witness on the planet… 
It bothers me that the HC’s wording is not “He arranged…” but “…evidence exists that he arranged”. Not the same thing.
Much as it may not be fair to the memory of the horse - who I’m reasonably sure DID die as alleged - I’m not real comfortable putting his name on the shirts, b/c the Hearing Committee does NOT appear to have been fully convinced by the evidence.
So, having swung back & forth a few times today, I think I vote “no”. Now we need some tie-breakers! 
As to the “affirmative proof” clause in the HC decision, the wording is exactly the same for ALL the suspended parties. It’ll be interesting to see what qualifies as total rehabilitation, will it not??
not unlike the employee that embezzles… I deserve it… so what is your point?
War Admiral–make mine a MGD
seriously though I would not sign the No Reinstatement Petition because I don’t agree with it. I think most of these people should be allowed to be reinstated and will trust the hearing committee to weigh all the facts and make a correct decision–I do believe those on the committee care about the sport and the public’s perception of the sport, but also recognize that they have a higher authority to answer to, i.e. the USOC and the IOC. I don’t see drugging in violation of the Rules as any different–if it is not animal abuse to have your horse in a drunken stupor just so you can win a class, then I don’t know what is? And I am against animal abuse…I am a breeder and own horses that I am very partial to on lots of levels…I care about my animals, and wish others would feel the same way–but they don’t and that probably includes half the USEF membership–the city dwellers who just come out in their expensive SUV, get on the horse that the groom has all prepared and that the trainer beat the prior two days because it wouldn’t go for the lady because she is such a bad rider–then she takes her lesson, hops off, hands it back to the groom, maybe feeds it a couple of carrots, then off to shopping with her friend. Don’t get me started on this H/J industry. I am a jumper rider for over 25 years. I know how it is. And I don’t mean to condemn all the owners and riders, as there are many just like me who are always trying to do the right thing. But we have far more problems in this industry than these 2 doaen or so people, who no doubt will never do anything like this again, and who could serve as a voice in this industry as they have done something they are ashamed of and perhaps if around to tell others just may keep someone else from doing something similar.
That depends on how your define “moral”.
That depends on how you define "legalities.
If moral means doing what’s right and legal means following the intent and purpose of the rules then I humbly disagree.
Lemme guess… you’re against bits, shoes, saddles & martingales and all horses should be set free to roam the plains of Wyoming.
Why don’t YOU take some St. John’s wart and join reality? Seems you’re lacking balance.
Asswack Fruitbatting trolls
~Or is this really Tom Cruise???
Again, thank you Snowbird! Pardon my ignorance and subsequent silly questions!
MIKES MCS- most timely! Thanks for sharing.
No the point was that PV was running a business and a farm and therefore had another recourse besides hiring someone to make it look like a horse died a natural death. It makes his error in judgment even less necessary and creditable.
And, for that small error everyone else pays more for equal insurance.
Dana Waters, has been showing for years in the A/O jumpers with an incredible amount of success and a multitude of incredible horses.
She and her husband run a a very successful sales business. Chuck Waters is a big horse trader/dealer and Grand Prix Rider.
