The "NO REINSTATEMENT" thread.

[Lucassb]

not only a fund raiser, but a telling sign of support that is visible. What small child seeing their first horse show would not want the same bracelet that she/he sees the riders wearing?

Yeah, that’s my thought too. The money raised might be somewhat marginal, but I think the sight of the bracelets might be persuasive.

I agree that most show managements would be unlikely to support such an effort publicly, but it would be easy enough to set up a simple website to handle orders. I think actually the biggest challenge would be the distribution. Probably we would need to find a vendor who was willing to do fulfillment, which would add to the cost.

The bracelets themselves are inexpensive to produce. (Less than 50 cents each.)

[VirginiaBred]

Love the shirts. Great job!

[shade]

And why should any of them be allowed that privilege again. They threw that privilege away when they hired Tommy Burns.

[Seven]

LE, I haven’t followed the whole thread either, but changing focus on new laws would not serve the same purpose as the petition. No law now enacted would be retroactive to cover the actions the petitioners are against. Rather, the petition to continue the ban against individuals who may seek reinstatement is just about the only thing that concerned horse/animal people can do.

The criminal justice system has already been exhausted in this case, so excluding those involved from our “members only” club is (probably) the best way to have our personal convictions reflected in our public actions - i.e., it’s not okay to intentionally kill horses for profit. No, we can’t stop them from doing many of the things other free and private citizens can do (like owning horses and operating stables), but we can, as members of an exclusive “club” say that what was done is reprehensible and because of it, those convicted have given up their privilege of membership with us.

Yes, new laws are probably over due. And after this petition is successful that would be another good way to focus energy. But for now, excluding people who can’t conform to the standards set by the membership is more important since it is an immediate threat to the integrity of the organization.

Also true is that others have done the same crimes and were not caught. But we can’t exclude them on rumor and supposition.

The USEF is a private club that can (and should) regulate its members and the petition is just a group of horse people standing together to say that those who participated in the crimes outlined don’t need to be members of our organization.

[Showponymom_Aefvue_M]

Originally posted by Serah:
I DO know people who have committed these crimes. And i went to the authorities, i went directly to the insurance company, and they told me basically to F**K OFF and that it was non of my business and that this person was a loyal customer of theirs…That’s what i get for trying to save them 15,000$. So as far as getting the Insurance companies on your side…Good Luck.

Why don’t you contact the media, most of the big market news stations have an investigation team that would take over and investigate why authorities would not address. I would not rest because someone said no. Did you go to the DA or just local police? Write the insurance commission of your state. I can’t believe an insurance company would tell you to mind your own business.

You live in Atlanta, call CNN. This is a national story.

[radio_talk_Aefvue_Fa]

I politely disagree xegeba. This is not about crucifying PV, but about possible re-instatement of him, them, whomever. Should it be allowed? He just happens to be next in line to apply for re-instatement. I understand why you think he did the right thing by “squealing”. But possibly it was to save his own skin? Thus the doing the right thing move may not been upper most in his mind.

[Midge]

How does the reinstatement process work and is there any public announcement of such on the website or in Equestrian magazine?

Do we just find out someone has requested reinstatement when they are welcomed back to the fold?

[xegeba]

How about if it was a client horse? How does one explain that decision to someone who has paid big bucks for a horse that now is only worth killer price?

Did PV off a client’s horse? without permission?

[War_Admiral]

Don’t know if there are any pics. If any of you actually have a wristband could you please post a pic for Bob?

MEANWHILE: KNOW ANY T.V. CRITICS? Don’t forget TV bloggers, as well.

It might be worth sending your local T.V. critic a quick e-mail tying the No Reinstatement campaign in with tomorrow’s debut of the “Road to Maclay” series on Animal Planet.

This is what I wrote. Feel free to borrow and edit.

Dear ______:

While Animal Planet is focusing its latest efforts on the equestrian community (see “Road to Maclay”, starting tomorrow night, and the upcoming Grand Prix jumping series), this might be an opportune time to focus some media attention on the professional jumping trainers who were prosecuted and convicted under RICO for insurance fraud which involved the brutal killing of show horses for profit.

Having been suspended for varying terms, these people are now being reinstated, one by one, to professional standing in the US Equestrian Federation. Some of us in the equestrian community find this inappropriate.

See wwww.noreinstatement.org and the Providence Journal for tomorrow, Wed. 2/1.

Best regards,

[Snowbird]

Sadly Serah I’m afraid we have some posters who haven’t made it to High School yet. We have to care for those mentally disabled and try to nurture them with kindness.

[BaliBandido]

Originally posted by xegeba:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Do you think he would have sent the horse to the killers and take that big loss? Wouldn’t sheer greed make him find an excuse to sell him down the road for maybe less than

HUH? Are you saying that if Bali bought a horse and horse turned out to be a loser… that selling him down the road (for a loss)would be a product of “sheer greed”? Bali… help me out here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess you did not understand- what I was trying to say was wouldn’t greed make him at least try to sell the horse for more than he could get at a killer sale. That question was brought about by your statement: Second… if there was no insurance policy… the horse goes to the killers… just like every other horse that is lucky enough to be owned by an a**wipe who thinks of them as a commodity and does not have enough money to insure them.

[Riggs]

N&B&T, well put.

[adventurebeachponies]

Originally posted by harryjohnson:
I think Adventurebeachponies, with a much better way with words, is stating what I was trying to express in earlier posts, when I was accused of vacillating between two sides. There is an emotional side to this, as well as a technical side. One point that Adventurebeach made was that he was encouraged to do charitable works - I for one am not certain anyone (other than PR people encouraged him), BUT, this old goat finds it pertinent that these charitable works just did not happen until the eve of his reinstatement.

If this is the case, then this is a fact that the committee needs to evaluate.

When a subject comes up for review after committing a crime by a parole board or some other committee called together for that purpose then those are the kinds of things that should be considered.

The quesions that should be answered are:

1. Did PV abide by the original terms and conditions of his suspension?

2. Is there clear and substantial evidence that he is “rehabilitated”?

3. Did he perform charitable works that contributed to the welfare of horses?

His sentence was pronounced 10 years ago and that cannot be changed at this point. It can be argued it was too lenient in the first place but it is unfair to change the game 10 years later in my opinion as that is not fair dealing.

Just my opinion.

[Snowbird]

Prisons all full of people who are really sorry. I don’t think anyone is happy to have done something so anti-social that they are penalized.

We have the two men in Virginia where the Judge has made it their parole sentence that they may not participate in this industry. Will the USEF honor that court order? Will the USEF feel they said they were sorry and the USEF is not responsible. Both men have been members in good standing while in prison.

What exactly is a Federation and what exactly are they responsible for as regulators? If their mission is to do what is in the best interest of the sport. How can those who have been convicted of a crime involving fraud with horses be acceptable? Membership in USEF is not mandatory except at certain shows and it is a privilege for those who honor the horses and care for them and behave in a manner to bring pride to the sport of horses.

Should new people who may have no knowledge of someone’s history become innocent victims of anti-social behavior?

[scout33]

My mistake I do apologize for not keeping better track of who said what on all the other threads.

Again, Midge I love how you patronize me.

I had thought this was a forum to discuss things whether we shared the same opinions or not without being patronized or attacked verbally at all turns. Maybe that was my mistake, amazing how people respond when there is the element of anonymity.

[radio_talk_Aefvue_Fa]

Ponymom your daughter had a reaction as most children do when they learn of this event. Horror. It is without explaination.

[Snowbird]

We’re not talking about people who couldn’t make a mortgage payment or whose family was almost homeless and starving. Maybe like in Les Miserables there could be such an excuse.

We’e talking about affluent trainers in the premier bracket who didn’t NEED the money. They could have sold done and written off the loss; they could have donated and written off the deductions to charity.

These are not people who have remorse for what they did but for getting caught. This is what happens when Competition becomes a vanity show instead of a competition.

[Snowbird]

Thank you for posting that. I do think it fits our prescribed definitions. It says he arranged for the horse to be hit with a sledge hammer. I think I could go along with the opinion of the Hearing Committee in this case.

then only based upon affirmative proof of total rehabilitation, including proof that he has taken steps to reform himself and has performed community service to benefit the welfare of horses

This part is a little disturbing because the decision can be very subjective. I think someone convicted of Insurance Fraud and this huge abuse to horses should be banned for life as well.

I say “Jatomic Streaker” deserves to be remembered and respected. If we don’t learn the same mistakes will keep happening.

[Limerick]

Originally posted by xegeba:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Ping pong balls up the nose, crowbars and alligator clips all

I’ll bet the communal trailer ride to the lot is plush. The paddock is divine. the aroma is soothing. The redcarpet walk is heady. Who needs Dr. K? the whole scenario is dreamy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It’s all awful and disgusting and heartbreaking. I’m against slaughter, would NEVER do that to my horse. And I’m against what PV et al did to their horses. This thread, however, is about No Reinstatement for horse killers" (who defrauded insurance companies) I am positive there is still an active thread that rallies against horse slaughter but it’s in the Off Course forum.

Now, I asked earlier if people thought we should send individual letters to USEF letting them know we’ve signed the petition. What department at USEF should I direct such an e-mail to? Membership?

[Snowbird]

But I do think IF Mr. Valliere chose to apply for reinstatement, it would be an exceptionally good idea for the USEF to have publicly held hearings, where interested parties could speak, or have letters formally read for the record, and Mr. Valliere would have an opportunity to respond, for the record.

DMK I totally agree that should be the procedure for all who make seek Reinstatement after having been convicted.